Crackdown on foreign internet gambling operators amid addiction fears

[BingoT]

Crackdown on foreign internet gambling operators amid addiction fears

A dramatic crackdown on online gambling firms could result in hundreds of foreign operators being forced out of Britain.
Culture Secretary Jeremy Hunt is planning to stop companies based overseas from advertising in this country amid mounting concern that millions are becoming addicted to gambling.
He is also considering a ban on the use of credit cards for internet gaming to stop people risking money they do not have, the Daily Mail has learned.
The moves would drive hundreds of foreign firms out of this country, officials believe.
They would involve tearing up large parts of Labour’s controversial 2005 Gambling Act, which is blamed by critics for a dramatic deregulation of the industry.
A senior government source said: ‘Ministers are concerned about the explosion of internet gambling advertising since Labour relaxed the gambling laws.
Changes the Government want to make would help protect the public from gambling companies that don’t meet UK standards but have been allowed to profit from Labour’s lax approach to internet gambling.’
Experts say around a million children are addicted to gambling and Labour’s lenient gaming laws are largely to blame. They warn that vulnerable children have become hooked after casinos, bookmakers and betting websites were allowed to advertise on TV.
Under the Gambling Act, any company that holds a licence for online gaming in the UK must carry out stringent checks to prevent children playing highly addictive games. But only operators who locate their key equipment in Britain are required to be licensed by the Gambling Commission.
By POLITICAL EDITOR
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ion-fears.html

[jstrike]

Experts say around a million children are addicted to gambling

Ah, the British. The more the ultra-rich in the UK treat their excess population like cattle, the more people act badly, and the more excuses the government has for totalitarian control. What kind of blatant lie will their government invent next? First it was that third-hand-smoke kills... now there are a million children addicted to gambling. Lol. I refuse to go to Britain because of their DNA database. And I won't walk down the street in a country that puts cameras on me everywhere I go. Suffocating, nanny state bullshit. Meanwhile, they hate themselves so much they can't wait to be turned into an Islamic state. Not a word that's come out of their government's mouth has been true since Winston Churchill died, and a lot of that was probably BS too.

Britons need to grow a spine and do something about their government, instead of trying to commit cultural suicide and letting themselves be kept in a constant state of fear and total lack of privacy.

Truth is, the gov't there can't ban booze or gambling because then they'd actually have angry people on their hands. So instead they'll just tax it to death until the people don't remember what it was like to live in the free world, and then ban it later.

[vinylweatherman]

Ah, the British. The more the ultra-rich in the UK treat their excess population like cattle, the more people act badly, and the more excuses the government has for totalitarian control. What kind of blatant lie will their government invent next? First it was that third-hand-smoke kills... now there are a million children addicted to gambling. Lol. I refuse to go to Britain because of their DNA database. And I won't walk down the street in a country that puts cameras on me everywhere I go. Suffocating, nanny state bullshit. Meanwhile, they hate themselves so much they can't wait to be turned into an Islamic state. Not a word that's come out of their government's mouth has been true since Winston Churchill died, and a lot of that was probably BS too.

Britons need to grow a spine and do something about their government, instead of trying to commit cultural suicide and letting themselves be kept in a constant state of fear and total lack of privacy.

Truth is, the gov't there can't ban booze or gambling because then they'd actually have angry people on their hands. So instead they'll just tax it to death until the people don't remember what it was like to live in the free world, and then ban it later.

The British have been known for their tolerance of the intolerable, and tend NOT to take to the streets as readily as in other countries. This has allowed the government to take liberties, and feel that lack of "rioting" means that what they did was OK, so they push harder.

This is not entirely true though, and I remember when lorry drivers "snapped" over £1.20 per litre petrol and diesel, and in a mere THREE DAYS had Labour doing a hard U-Turn, and making promises to keep the price down. We are closer to a repeat of this than the current government thinks. Students took tuition fees "on the chin", but they too finally "snapped" last year, taking to the streets after yet ANOTHER massive increase in these fees was announced.

Labour expected many more gambling firms to get a UK License than did. This was very naive of them, and the cause was their insistence of applying tax at 15%, and then whitelisting jurisdictions who taked at a mere 2% or less, and had lower standards. The result, MALTA got all the "action", not the UK.

They were also rather lax in not considering the danger of allowing CREDIT cards to be used for gambling, and it has been the card companies, not the government, that have begun to appreciate the problem. Many card companies changed their terms to move gambling from "purchases" to "cash advances", which carry a MUCH higher rate of interest, and with NO "interest free period". This reflected the high risk of bad debt down to gambling addiction, but they didn't want to lose out on the PROFIT altogether by an outright ban.

Banning CREDIT cards would be a GOOD thing. I would make it less easy to use debt to fund "chasing" behaviour, or keeping an addiction unaddressed before things REALLY got out of hand.

The danger is that they will swing too far the other way, and end up "nannying" people who do not need it.

The industry have done themselves no favours either, by having terms and conditions that would be ILLEGAL under UK consumer protection laws, but that leave UK players with little redress because of the offshore location of their company.

The Gambling Commission have already expressed concerns that many of these "jurisdictions" have simply done it for the money, with NO intention to actually POLICE what the operators get up to (Malta again)

The TV advertising and sponsorship has given a great deal of legitimacy to these companies, so we have 888.com advertising on prime time TV, yet using "spirit of the bonus" clauses to arbitrarily confiscate winnings even when NONE of their "illegal under UK law" terms were actually broken.

Apart from a ban on CREDIT cards, the focus is likely to be on advertising, with a specific license needed to be allowed to advertise in the UK, along with stricter controls on said advertising.

Tobacco is legal, yet CANNOT be advertised AT ALL on TV, so just because something is legal, it does NOT mean the government will allow it to be advertised. Like tobacco, there could even be a total ban on TV advertising of online gambling, and restrictions on advertising through other media.

From March 1st, the powers of the ASA will be extended to the internet, which means even an internet site targetted at UK players will be required to meet the UK standards. ANY operator based in the EU can be "got at" by an enforcement from the ASA, but OUTSIDE the EU is also OUTSIDE of the whitelist arrangements.

This will ALSO cover the way AFFILIATES promote casinos, so UK based affiliates in particular (especially the rogue ones) need to ensure they meet ASA guidelines, lest one of their players makes a complaint after feeling an offer was not given as advertised.

Operators that have "Neteller hatred" in their terms need to consider the impact a credit card ban would have, since this could mean eWallets become the ONLY way UK players can easily make deposits. Other than cards and eWallets, other deposit methods are much more involved, and require a wait between making the deposit, and the funds being available for play.

[jstrike]

Well, thanks for the very detailed inside view.

You're talking to someone who thinks that a ban on tobacco ads is a totalitarian attack on freedom of speech, and that any government who tries to ban any individual's activities in any way (that don't result in the death or injury of another person) should be overthrown.

But if I put my politics on the side and look at this from a player's perspective -- how much do I want a government "looking out" for me and protecting me from scams and crooks? Not much, because every time they do they end up taking a big huge chunk out of my wallet. Even the "cheap" places like Malta put exorbitant costs on licenses, and what ends up happening is players get screwed. Because not only do they not do their job regulating, they make it so expensive to do business there that of course the costs end up getting passed on to the players. I mean, who's paying that licensing fee? It comes out of the paybacks, not the profits.

Plus there's the fact that you just can't control what you can't control, and it makes you look bad when you try. The US has been drowning in this crap for years now, and they still can't control what their own people do, let alone what people do everywhere else in the world.

At the end of the day, governments have to either act sanely to protect their citizens, or act like mafias that stick their fingers in everybody business and take everything they can...and when they do that, it just ends up hurting their own people. Blocking credit cards might be a great idea to stop kids gambling, but how about teaching parents not to leave their kids sitting at home, unsupervised, with a credit card? How about repealing those ridiculous laws that make it illegal to slap your kid's ass? Then we can get back to a sane world where decisions are made by adults and not everybody has to suffer because the stupidest person in the room has an even dumber child who can't be controlled.

A million children addicted to gambling, hah. If it's true -- and I can't believe it is -- then the problem definitely lies with the government taking away parents right to discipline their kids, instead of encouraging them to do it.

[vinylweatherman]

Well, thanks for the very detailed inside view.

You're talking to someone who thinks that a ban on tobacco ads is a totalitarian attack on freedom of speech, and that any government who tries to ban any individual's activities in any way (that don't result in the death or injury of another person) should be overthrown.

But if I put my politics on the side and look at this from a player's perspective -- how much do I want a government "looking out" for me and protecting me from scams and crooks? Not much, because every time they do they end up taking a big huge chunk out of my wallet. Even the "cheap" places like Malta put exorbitant costs on licenses, and what ends up happening is players get screwed. Because not only do they not do their job regulating, they make it so expensive to do business there that of course the costs end up getting passed on to the players. I mean, who's paying that licensing fee? It comes out of the paybacks, not the profits.

Plus there's the fact that you just can't control what you can't control, and it makes you look bad when you try. The US has been drowning in this crap for years now, and they still can't control what their own people do, let alone what people do everywhere else in the world.

At the end of the day, governments have to either act sanely to protect their citizens, or act like mafias that stick their fingers in everybody business and take everything they can...and when they do that, it just ends up hurting their own people. Blocking credit cards might be a great idea to stop kids gambling, but how about teaching parents not to leave their kids sitting at home, unsupervised, with a credit card? How about repealing those ridiculous laws that make it illegal to slap your kid's ass? Then we can get back to a sane world where decisions are made by adults and not everybody has to suffer because the stupidest person in the room has an even dumber child who can't be controlled.

A million children addicted to gambling, hah. If it's true -- and I can't believe it is -- then the problem definitely lies with the government taking away parents right to discipline their kids, instead of encouraging them to do it.

It's true, and is largely down to Fruit Machines. It is perfectly LEGAL for children of ANY age to play the "seaside" category of thse AWP games, and THIS is where it can start.

I started playing these machines when I was barely old enough to reach the slot, but it was ONLY available to me on the one week family seaside holiday. Kids who LIVED at these resorts could play EVERY DAY, and some did so. With the games now available at home on the computer, and widely advertised, it is no wonder kids graduate to these games, and will sometimes find a way around the various checks, which on the whole are NOT done until a WITHDRAWAL is submitted.

Parents often underestimate how "street wise" their kids are, and often don't really understand how the internet works. They may NOT realise how EASY it is to use just the DETAILS copied from a parent's card to gamble online, and with the sometimes obscure nature of the "billing descriptor", small deposits might look like one of many minor purchases made by the parent.

Kids can get "electron" cards when younger than 18, and these CAN be used at casinos. If casinos assume a card account means a player has to be 18, they are wrong - this ONLY applies to CREDIT cards.

By far, the most draconian controls are applied to smoking, and some of the laws stray WELL outside the stated aims of protecting other non-smokers from "second hand" smoke. It is even illegal for someone to consent to work in an environment where they may be exposed to second hand smoke, even if they are smokers themselves. Another law also makes it illegal to provide a specific area for smokers to indulge themselves away from those who want to avoid the second hand smoke, even though ONLY smokers will be in such a place. Effectively, smokers are being protected from each others second hand smoke by the law. Some businesses are faced with going bust because most of their customers were smokers, yet are REQUIRED to go bust, rather than be allowed to weigh up the risks and benefits themselves of working in a smoke filled environment to keep their business going and keeping their smoking customers.

[jstrike]

Effectively, smokers are being protected from each others second hand smoke by the law.

Not to get off topic here, but that's another main reason I won't travel to England, even on business. As a kid raised in Vegas, I'm a militant smoker and I don't want to go somewhere I'm gonna be treated like a second class citizen.

Anyway, back to the point, I agree that verifying age is a big problem with online gambling, but I think there are better ways to solve the problem than by punishing innocent adult players and raising huge taxes on everything. Same with alcohol and cigarettes. Parents don't realize their kids are streetwise, well... I don't see how that's someone else's problem. The credit card companies should investigate and refuse chargebacks if someone's kid did the buying. Make the parents eat the cost, send the kid to reform school. Send the parents to debtor's prison, maybe that makes sense. What doesn't make sense is punishing adults with all kinds of taxes, and making us listen to this bullcrap about "the children". I like that you can swear on the CM's board, because it gives me a chance to say, Fuck the children. Everything good about life is bad for children. If governments had their way, we'd all be classified as children. That's what makes all the bad things so good. Smoking, drinking, gambling, nakedness, debauchery. Man was put on earth to drink it all up with a big straw. So a government that puts children ahead of adults is just looking for excuses to take away our natural right to pleasure of all kinds. "The children" doesn't exist, because good children know not to touch Dad's wiskey, or they'll get a beating. They exist as a group the same way "The people" existed in soviet russia, or "aryan menschen" existed in nazi germany. They're just an excuse. And the people buy this crap because they're fed a constant stream of garbage. Why, just the other day I was watching British TV and saw a commercial for special diapers for six year old kids that they can put on themselves, for the "bedwetting phase". Because it can damage their self-esteem if their parents "find out" they're wetting the bed at age six. Given 20 years, they'll have these for the same kids at age 26.

Right, I'm gonna quit ranting and get back to work, obviously not making sense. I just see this whole picture -- training the kids for slavery, while enslaving their parents -- and I don't like it. I wish to hell the Brits and Americans would just stand up on their hind legs and shut this whole sick lottery racket down tomorrow, before it turns a whole generation of kids into mindless robots.

[felicie]

And from an American viewpoint, I'd say we are all living/serving under the same dictator.
I've often wondered why, in this forum anyway, it is only the Americans that rant and rave about their loss of personal freedoms and had also come to the conclusion that either socialism was really working well in other countries or, and this is my first choice really, that if you never had something to begin with, how could you miss it thereby causing a lack of complaining by the people. There is of course a 3rd theory that came to my mind and that was fear of reprisal for complaining but we don't even want to go there.
So it is really interesting and I thank you both for a little extra education today on something I've thought about for quite some time now but was afraid to just come out and ask. too shy you know. LOL

I also might add to you jstrike that I think VWM was very polite in his answer to what appeared to me to be a rather harsh attack on someone's country. I might not have been so polite but that's just me.

[vinylweatherman]

And from an American viewpoint, I'd say we are all living/serving under the same dictator.
I've often wondered why, in this forum anyway, it is only the Americans that rant and rave about their loss of personal freedoms and had also come to the conclusion that either socialism was really working well in other countries or, and this is my first choice really, that if you never had something to begin with, how could you miss it thereby causing a lack of complaining by the people. There is of course a 3rd theory that came to my mind and that was fear of reprisal for complaining but we don't even want to go there.
So it is really interesting and I thank you both for a little extra education today on something I've thought about for quite some time now but was afraid to just come out and ask. too shy you know. LOL

I also might add to you jstrike that I think VWM was very polite in his answer to what appeared to me to be a rather harsh attack on someone's country. I might not have been so polite but that's just me.

It was more an attack on those in charge, rather than "the people". Recent scandals have shown that it matters little who you vote for, the red ones, the yellow ones, or the blue ones, you seem to get the same old BS all the time.

At least in the US you only have TWO voting options in order to get the same old BS.

[jod5413]

Good thread and good posters. Thanks.

I wish Casinomeister would give awards to members here that stand out (in a good way).

Vinylweatherman is simply the most polite, calm and rational person I have met in ages. He is knowledgeable and has an ego that is self assured but not condescending. He likes helping people and always uses language that is coherent and easy to understand.

Thanks, VWM.

[felicie]

Good thread and good posters. Thanks.

I wish Casinomeister would give awards to members here that stand out (in a good way).

Vinylweatherman is simply the most polite, calm and rational person I have met in ages. He is knowledgeable and has an ego that is self assured but not condescending. He likes helping people and always uses language that is coherent and easy to understand.

Thanks, VWM.

I meant that thanks as in agreement not as if I was complimented. LOL