More eCOGRA Seals Awarded

[Casinomeister]

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...ead.php?t=4423

[GrandMaster]

True, but they are not published as being the ones used by a particular organization or military unit. If their specific algorithms were being published and/or made public, I'm sure they would have them changed. I'll still maintain that you don't make the specific details of your security system public in the desire to maintain its privacy and security.

PGP is an open source secure e-mail program used by many individuals and businesses. These people usually advertize the fact that they use PGP and put their public key on their webpages or business cards.

Here is another quote from Secrets and Lies, p. 91: "Auguste Kerckhoff first stated this thesis in 1883: There is no secrecy in the algorithm, it's all in the key."

[caruso]

I just took a look at one of the seals: "PLAYERS' seal of approval"?? WTF is with "players"?? Where did "players'" come into this? Golden Riviera is "player approved"?

Good grief, what a fit up con job this is. You industry people really make me want to throw up sometimes. You're beneath contempt. How do you sleep at night, knowing the con you're perpetrating on the ignorant public?

And in case anyone doubts how CENTRAL the "software verification" BS is to this whole fit-up con job, and how totally SECONDARY the "disputes resolution" tack-on is, take a look at the opening lines of the BS "seal" statement:

"eCOGRA’s Players Seal of Approval is awarded to those casinos which have achieved compliance with eCOGRA’s high standards and demonstrated that:

Games are fair"

...implying, along with all the other BS, that the PLAYERS are somehow in agreement with these "claims".

What a con job. I can't believe anyone out there with a conscience is buying this.

[jpm]

PGP is an open source secure e-mail program used by many individuals and businesses. These people usually advertize the fact that they use PGP and put their public key on their webpages or business cards..

And your point is? This has nothing to do with an encrypted military communications system.

Here is another quote from Secrets and Lies, p. 91: "Auguste Kerckhoff first stated this thesis in 1883: There is no secrecy in the algorithm, it's all in the key."

Cryptography was still extremely primitive in 1883, and Auguste obviously was not around when the Enigma machine was put into use by Germany during WW2. Take a look at how the allied cryptographers broke the Germans communications using that device. They had captured books of keys, but they didn't have the algorithm to use with them and as such, the keys were useless. This was more important with the later versions of the Enigma box that added another code wheel and user configurable jumper connections to strengthen the encryption.

[jpm]

I just took a look at one of the seals: "PLAYERS' seal of approval"?? WTF is with "players"?

I'd have to agree with you on this part Caruso, I was wondering why it was a 'players' seal of approval too.

[spearmaster]

Good catch. There is no justification whatsoever for the seal to say "Players Seal of Approval".

I assume word will get back to eCOGRA very quickly.

[Casinomeister]

To begin with, I believe the "Players Seal of Approval" is meant for the players, not from the players -- this makes sense. I don't see a problem with this.

A lot of the criticism made against eCogra in this thread has been made moot by the inclusion of other software providers Cassava for one, and there are a few others on the table at the moment.

I've met Andrew Beveridge a number of times in the past, and last week I had the opportunity to meet with Michael Hirst, and Frank Catania as well. I also have a good insight on what is happening behind the scenes - from the inspection process to player complaint procedures. To compare this operation to another "Safebet" is mindless. Since eCOGRA's inception, there has been plenty of "transparent" information given to ensure the "informed" players that comparing the two is nonsensical.

I honestly feel that this organization is the closest thing to regulation. All of us (players, webmasters, operators, licensors, turnkey solution providers, etc.) have awaited an organization that has a criteria that casinos must comply with, and that continually scrutinizes these operations.

eCOGRA is open for any software provider. And once the software provider is in, then the casinos are eligible for membership. Licensing jurisdictions are irrelevant since it is the eGOGRA standards that need to be met. This is a very good thing, and will be the closest thing to regulation as we will possibly get.

Hopefully within the upcoming months, we'll all get a good feel on how this is beneficial for all of us - naysayers as well.

[jpm]

To begin with, I believe the "Players Seal of Approval" is meant for the players, not from the players -- this makes sense. I don't see a problem with this.

I think you're right about this Bryan. I was thinking about it the other day and it definitely depends on where you place the emphasis. I guess its just poor choice of wording, since it almost sounds like it was a vote by players that awarded the seal.

[GrandMaster]

I've met Andrew Beveridge a number of times in the past, and last week I had the opportunity to meet with Michael Hirst, and Frank Catania as well. I also have a good insight on what is happening behind the scenes - from the inspection process to player complaint procedures. To compare this operation to another "Safebet" is mindless. Since eCOGRA's inception, there has been plenty of "transparent" information given to ensure the "informed" players that comparing the two is nonsensical.

Can you share with us any information on how the fairness of the games is verified? There is no transparency here.

[Casinomeister]

Can you share with us any information on how the fairness of the games is verified? There is no transparency here.

Not much more than I can say except which is detailed on eCOGRA's website here:
http://www.ecogra.com/eGap/Practices/107.asp
here:
http://www.ecogra.com/eGap/Practices/106.asp
and here:
http://www.ecogra.com/eGap/Practices/109.asp

How is this not transparent?

Does anyone know if the Nevada Gaming Commission http://gaming.nv.gov/lists these same sort of requirements for their land based casino games? I'm looking for the same sort of guidelines, but I don't see them right off the bat - they may be hidden somewhere.

What I am getting at is that what is explained in detail at the eCOGRA site indicates "Fair Gaming", and it seems that they have placed their requirements out there for public view unlike a government run gaming commission that is undoubtably (?) fair. What more information do you want?