A letter to the casinos

[Jasminebed]

Spearmaster, I totally agree that comp points should be based on play, win or lose.

But I do get bonuses at Landbased casinos, and have since I started going regularly about 10 years ago. All players playing slots with their player's card get cashback, based on play, and some send Xmas and Birthday gifts in cash certificates to be redeemed within a certain timeframe. Yes cash, no WR attached. This is in addition to free meals, as well as concerts, shows and rooms.

I only have a choice of a few casinos within a few hours drive, but I have a choice of hundreds on line.

The idea that online casinos seem to have is that WINNERS are undesirable customers. I've been a gambler long enough to know the only real winner in this business is the casino, and to keep us coming back is easier than recruiting us.

[kimss]

OK people, I see this made a few comments - however I didn't read them yet, I did notice the argument is taking bonuses or not and I will shed some light on this. Tomorrow I will read the whole thread and comments again, I might do some wrong here however I do not think so.

Believe me, it is not about taking bonuses! That was not, is not, and will never be the point of the argument. Looking at myself, being what I might aswell call a hardcore impossible gambler I already know the following:

1. I will lose big!

recently I did some interesting alalysis on the playcheck data which I will share with the people in London in January! I know you are gonna love this! It is indeed interesting! However, what is still the point is that from a 100x win we usually need another 500 spins to be able to get another one. They simply do not come twice in row, that is - atleast not in 100.000 spins samle so I rest my theoretical you could win on every spin data. We all know that after a great win, comes a great suck - again - analyzing a few 100.000 spins graphically with mean bet and mean payout it all becomes obvious. So say you had an angry bet and was extremely lucky and got a 1000x win, you know in your gut - and now - I can proove it statistically from the playcheck data - it will eat you after this till the same mean win has been lost. During such a dry spell, if you are wagering to high you will quickly lose interest in the game. People - people - who enjoys depositing in bulks of $100 for say 3K during 1 month and have 60% payout to look back to?

In such a period, simply asking CS for a complementary bonus during the dry spell is atleast for me a token of appretiation - and giving me this free chips will ensure me that I will become a steady customer.

I already know I will lose, I already know that looking statistically at the last 3 years of data my playing style will only give me a win every 6 month (and I will win like 1/3 of the wagered amount). I am very agressive.

So say I just did 4000 spins of 60% payout, and say I have 5 different casinoes which I can deposit at. Say (I am not referring to Red Flush now, this is a theoretical question) the casino in mention I for some reason are pretty even steven at! I know - that if I deposit another 2K I might get over the dry spell and start winning.

The problem however, ok I'm drunk so I am a little dary in my speech here but no pun intended. Given existing premise.

I have played at Red flush, and I am still 4K or so ahead.
I have played at 32Red, and I am not ahead.

Both casinos are MG, I have equal chance of winning (given there is no funny business here, which is another discussion). By depositing 2K in 32red and losing, I am pretty sure - I do not have a guarantee - that if this, if I ask gently I will be able to get some free chips. I will enujoy theese, since they will help me get possible over the dry spell. If at the same time depositing the same omount at Red Flush - I know that they will not be able to be nice to me before I have lost atleast 5K.

So again - if the system is fair, I had luck. However - by now I have proven that the luck is away and I am falling. Therefore, since I am falling I wanted a little "appretiation", we already know thay cannot give me a beer or sandwitch, sigarettes or whatever - they can only give me chips. Will I win again, probably not. So why treat me like a nobody (Well, That said Red Flush CS did not do that to be correct, I got a honest answer it was impossible to give me the chips because of my winnings and I politely respected that.) Again - however - my point remains.

Ok, i have many points now, thank the beermeister for that!

Do Red Flush expect me to keep depositing in their casino, when they should know I could get free chips in other casinos?

And if I should win on a free chip, looking at a broader perspecive. Even with a 100x playthrough, during a year - im in it for the spins anyway - I will truly complete the wagering anyway. I do not need the free chips that bad, however I look at is as an appretiation from the casino that they value me as a player.

I know, I am on a rant, and I must stop. Maby I shoud edit this tomorrow, LOL. Anyways, good commenting people, I will come with a sober response in 24 hours or so.

Cheers, and for gods sake Casino people who made a fortune on me, where is that case of beer when I need it?? (That was a joke, unless you took it seriously, LOL)
*looking for beer emotion but cannot find it*

[Jasminebed]

, scroll down to Show All Smilies. No red wine smilies tho.

[chuchu59]

Originally Posted by spearmaster

Don't forget that, in general, you don't get bonuses at land-based casinos, unless you've played there for some time. All you get are comps.

In an online casino, you get comps AND bonuses. Now I understand where someone might play at some casino where they might get more bonuses - but if these bonuses are being given to you because you've lost a lot, you ought to think twice about playing at all.

A good casino SHOULD comp or bonus someone based on their amount of play, period, regardless of whether they won or lost. Losing should not be a criteria for a bonus - and winning should not be a reason for not giving a bonus.

That being said, I don't ask for bonuses anywhere. I do not believe in this mentality because I think if you've reached this stage, then you need to rethink your reasons for playing online.

I've not played online since just after the UIGEA was enacted - and while I miss it, I'm not about to go looking for reasons to play again. But Simmo can tell you that I do play in Macau, and I keep losing my ass because he doesn't know how to choose good machines But the actual availability of comps may be responsible for me losing more money - so imagine what it would be like if they started giving me other bonuses as well.

I did get a first-class ferry ticket back to Hong Kong though

Spear,

The Venetian guys are getting desperate for buseiness and they offer everyone a Cotai Rewards Club card which gives you comps but most of all they give you free ferry tickets (economy) if you have played for one hour (min HKD200 tables) and that is a real bargain.

What machines were you playing. Look at the other thread on 'Jackpot Party' slots. It is available at the Venetian and is one of the better slots I have experienced in Macau. There are different versions with interesting features and they all lead to the same progressive which is awarded randomly. So maybe you and Simmo can look for this next time you go.

As for me, I dont like the atmosphere there and it seems that smoking is not prohibited and I could see people smoking in the hotel lobbies and even the food court. Even with free ferry tickets, I am not going to go back in a hurry.

[tofu23]

If you don't take a bonus you will lose. Period. If you enjoy losing, go ahead and pour your money down the drain.

But here is a solution to all the non-bonus losers. Play in Fun Mode. Because I can't see the difference - you can't win not taking a bonus, and you can't win playing Fun Mode. Except in Fun Mode - you can't lose either!

.

[Casinomeister]

Originally Posted by spearmaster

That being said, I don't ask for bonuses anywhere. I do not believe in this mentality because I think if you've reached this stage, then you need to rethink your reasons for playing online.

Amen to that!

[kimss]

Originally Posted by Casinomeister

Amen to that!

While this all sounds fine and dandy, I cannot help to think that if this was true - there would not be a casino business! They thrive on players like me, the ones not having the control to stop and wagering more than they intended or could afford at that particular time. The do not make money on the $20 deposits, they make it on the 2K deposits.

Anyways, nice to be sober again!

I'll take free chips any day, because I know I will lose anyway (atleast historically I always did, I have eccepted the reality that i will never be a winner!), only a question of time! I only get a rush from the big win anyways - free chips or not - still the same adrenalin boiling though the veins! I much rather make the casino let me free-ride a dry spell, than deposit more money to play through it.

Thanks for the comments people! I do wish the casinos would have change their policy though, however it doesn't really matter as I have pointed out. Lot's of cainos throw free chips at you, and as I know I have the capacity to go overboard, I require the attention of free chips if I should do so - especially since they are so easy to get when losing (that is - total balance in casino account is below zero)!

Whatever, the argument feels exhausted - what I would like to see is some casino representatives respond, not fellow members (including you Casinomeister,lol) since our views really doesn't mean squat in this matter,

[kimss]

Not to make the thread derail totally here, my question fro the a casino would be:

Scenario, say deposit is 1K, withdrawal is 10K. Last session has deposited 2K and lost all.

If loosing 2K qualifies for a $100 manager bonus if you ask for it, it should't really matter if I am a winner or loser in the long run [statistically one would lose].

Given normal practise is NOT giving any form of extra bonuses for a winning customer, even if loosing 2K straight. [I am still 7K ahead]

Question: Why would I want to keep playing at such a casino, knowing I will get minimal service? I know I need to lose 7K more to get back to scratch, and probably lose 1K more before being qualified for free chips when the going gets tough. At this point service will be superior again, since I now am VIP again, [the irony]

The other casinos have the same software and games.
The other casinos have the same deposit options
The other casinos have the same withdrawal options
The other casinos have the same live chat
The other casinos will treat you nice if losing by throwing some chips in your direction

Disclaimer:
I hope I do not sound angry or dishappy with anyone, then I applogize, this is not my intention. I have dropped my wagering much this year, and my losses are not what they used to be. I have no argument with any casino, I have no problem with their practise which by the way pretty much all casinos share regarding this thread. I am however interested in the business logic behind this way of treating the customers with manager bonus, as I simply cannot understand how this is costly for the casino - in my head I can only sum it up with the casino losing customers this way. Anyways!

[Jufo]

Originally Posted by kimss

Question: Why would I want to keep playing at such a casino, knowing I will get minimal service? I know I need to lose 7K more to get back to scratch, and probably lose 1K more before being qualified for free chips when the going gets tough. At this point service will be superior again, since I now am VIP again, [the irony]

So then DON'T play at the same casino. It is their mistake if they cannot see that giving you some freebies would make you lose some of your winnings back to them. It's not like there aren't plenty of other casinos to choose from, so I don't see what's the problem.

[kimss]

Originally Posted by Jufo

So then DON'T play at the same casino. It is their mistake if they cannot see that giving you some freebies would make you lose some of your winnings back to them. It's not like there aren't plenty of other casinos to choose from, so I don't see what's the problem.

You are not getting my point here. I have no problem here, what I do not understand is how this practice accually serves the casino? It sounds to me that the the casino is not serving their own best interest here.

So look at it as a theoretical question I would like to try and understand the business logic behind, since I do not get it.