Microgaming White Label Issue

[Casinomeister]

Originally Posted by just play

For me, sometimes it seems you are discussing things between yourselves, so I don't post...

For someone with +340 posts, I'd hate to see what happens when you decide to start posting

Originally Posted by NASHVEGAS

I am not sure it was wise to split the original thread as some the original OP's comments (soliticing someone to sue the shit out of NT) in the original pre-split thread have been refered to in this thread but yet do not appear in this thread. Posters and readers may be easily confused as to what is being referenced. Perhaps, CM can come up with a suitable remedy.

The remedy is to START NEW THREADS WHEN THE SUBJECT MATTER TAKES A TURN IN ANOTHER DIRECTION

Sometimes it's like being a traffic cop and putting up detour signs at the same time. The other thread has a link for this one announcing the "split".

Onward. As for White Labels, I'm generally against them unless they are adding something to this industry that a normal casino isn't doing. Most White Label casinos just clutter up the landscape. Just look at the names of the ones listed at Playshare - 222 Best, 247 Club Las Vegas, 365 Vegas Casino, 777 Winner, 888 CBO, blah blah blah - just a bunch of unimaginative crap.

I mean really - how many more Vegas24-7club-goldengamblingcasino.com's do we need? How is this improving the online casino environment? In most cases its Cyber-pollution - an affiliate program on steroids.

Now, it's not all bad. I can understand a white label filling a marketing void - like an all gay casino brand, or casinos for midget clowns or something. But if there is no niche to fill, why overcrowd the others??

As we can see, it's already confusing to a number of players. Where does the responsibility/accountability start or end for the affiliate or casino manager? I am a firm believer that most of these white labels will resort to spam since most don't have the budget for legitimate mainstream marketing campaigns. Most of these WL casinos will be nothing but a shell in a year's time.

I understand that several MGS casino groups are doing this. And to cut to the chase, I don't like it.

Players deserve better. After all, isn't that what this industry is all about? To serve the player??

[Pinababy69]

Originally Posted by Casinomeister

I understand that several MGS casino groups are doing this. And to cut to the chase, I don't like it.

I don't suppose you'd be interested in sharing that info? Or selling it? Ha ha...that's a joke. That's okay, I'm a pretty good master detective when I set my mind to it. Give me some time, I'll come up with them on my own.

As to the rest of your post.

And thank you for letting us know where you stand on the issue.

[everyday]

Well I'd thought I'd seen it all in the 2 years of reading threads here, but this one takes the cake. What will they think of next? The online gaming industry has obviously lost so much revenue from the U.S. that even the reputable MG is stooping to levels that I wouldn't have imagined. The climate has become so untrustworthy lately and Mario's "the cat is out of the bag" comment was just about all I needed to hear to send chills up my spine. Pina - you really know how to get to the bottom of an issue and even though many of us do not post very often, your hard work does not go un-noticed. This just adds to the uneasy feeling I've had lately regarding a number of issues that have been commented on here, such as PO% for example, which I firmly believe have changed from personal experience. We had to be aware that the huge impact of lost revenue to the casinos bottom line would need to be dealt with and who best to recoup that from than the current players. These issues are taking the "fun" out of the gaming experience and they have to realize that. I spend more time in this forum trying to stay informed than time spent gambling. So many issues to read and casinos taking my money faster than the speed of light.

[Casinomeister]

Originally Posted by everyday

Well I'd thought I'd seen it all in the 2 years of reading threads here, but this one takes the cake. What will they think of next? The online gaming industry has obviously lost so much revenue from the U.S. that even the reputable MG is stooping to levels that I wouldn't have imagined...

I wouldn't consider it so dastardly since White Label casinos are an old concept and several software platforms offer these. They give an affiliate the ability to customize the casino via domain names, graphics and target audience. Grand Virtual has been doing this for years and the complaints they generate are minuscule.

On the other hand, Gambling Federation has had their share of headaches.

It's just another marketing technique, and it's something that a lot of affiliates go for.

[just play]

For someone with +340 posts, I'd hate to see what happens when you decide to start posting

But most of my posts are questions Or in Wild cards when the girls get me going


I am honestly amazed at how intelligent people here are, (unless I am just a moron ) and yes to Pina, that was a compliment to everyone.


I still don't truely understand everything, but I feel "taken care of" as a member here.

[SlotsWizard]

When I first read this thread (actually, the other thread before it was split) I didn't really think too much of it until all the implications started popping up.

I agree with Bryan that most - if not all - white label brands are just clutter. There are 2 potential problems with new players who come across a white label thinking it's a new group:

1. They aren't eligible for the signup bonus if they have already taken one at the "pure" casino. This could be remedied by always allowing players to use the signup bonus that the white label offers. From a programming perspective, that really would not be difficult to keep track of. This might expose the underlying casino to liability if an advantage player makes their rounds throughout their white label brands, possibly without even knowing that they are playing at the same casino every time, but so what? Don't offer truly fantastic bonuses on white labels.

2. Players might ultimately be playing at a casino group they don't like. For example, I do not like Grand Prive and won't give them a dime. I would hate to sign up and deposit at an apparently new casino, only to later discover that it's a skin of Grand Prive. This is very deceptive.

I do understand the motivation behind white labels: from the casino's point of view, it's a great way to increase the customer base and revenue. From the affiliate's point of view, it's a good way to offer something truly unique to earn revenue from.

I think that if MG white labels are here to stay (and sadly, they probably are) then the following changes need to be implemented ASAP:

1. Keep track of player accounts and signup bonuses at the white label level, NOT the source casino level. This would allow new players to obtain the signup bonus at each white label brand of the same casino.

2. Mandatory disclosure of the actual/source group on the white label's home page and T&C. Just put it there at the bottom of each page. For example, "MintLasVegas is a member of the Spamming Assholes Group of Online Casinos".

3. A requirement that affiliates MUST NOT USE EMAIL CAMPAIGNS (commonly referred to as SPAM). There should be mandatory termination of relationships with affiliates who use spam in an effort to obtain new players. At first this might not sound easy to track from the source casino's perspective, however, some casinos have a field called "How did you hear about us?" during the signup process with a drop-down menu of choices. Such a field should be present on all white label casino signup screens. Make the field required so that the player has to choose something, and make sure that one of the options is "Unsolicited email" or something similar. If the source casino starts seeing too many new players who selected "Unsolicited email" then it's time to start investigating the affiliate.

That all being said, wise players would probably never deposit at a white label casino. Or at least I know I wouldn't because I always check for the following things before signing up anywhere:

1. Are they Casinomeister accredited or, if not, do they have an active representative at the forum in good standing?
2. Does the web site address look something like http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/raj7p4th44q/? If so, adios! (That is an actual URL from a MintLasVegas spam email)
3. Has anyone ever heard of them before? What sorts of results does Google come up with? Are there lots of complaints?
4. Do they disclose what group they belong to?
5. Do they disclose where they are located?
6. Do they have a link for an affiliate program? If not, they are either really small or it could be an affiliate web site (white label).

If the results of this simple investigation leave me with any sort of doubt, I don't sign up or deposit there.

[peteyweestro]

so if someone isn't that sharp,like say...me..lol..how would i know if my fav started this practice, meaning casino action group and fortune lounge???

[goldeninternetc]

Originally Posted by Pinababy69

I already PM'd Mario Winbig. He replied this morning that he would look into it, and get back to me and post in the thread when he had more info.

I have a sick feeling that the OP is exactly right and this was done through Playshare directly, and that they ARE responsible for those mirror sites/skins. I wanted to hear the OP's side of it first, before I said anything more.

If this is what internet gaming is coming down to....a company like Microgaming allowing their licensees to push clones of well known brands, you can count me out of this game, for good. The last software provider that I trusted, and thought was reputable.

Who does this remind you of? Reminds me of Virtual Casino and their hundreds of clone sites, that all lead back to Virtual. After you've downloaded and played, then they tell you "oh sorry, that casino is part of the Virtual Group and you're only allowed one account across the group".

Not to mention they are the cheesiest, cheapest looking sites to be representing an MG casino. If this is the way that business is going to be conducted, I can envision the future only too well. People will have absolutely no clue which casino they are downloading or playing at....not unless they do exhaustive research ahead of time.

Goldeninternet, while I don't approve of your site, if this was indeed done with the approval of Playshare...you have my apologies. It is scummy, it is deceptive advertising and it stinks to high heaven.

I too am very interested to hear what Mario or any other representative of Playshare/Gamshare and/or Microgaming has to say about this.

No need to apologise as no offense was taken in the first place.. But thank you. My intentions where never bad and never will be.

I appreciate your input. thanks.

[goldeninternetc]

Originally Posted by Casinomeister

I wouldn't consider it so dastardly since White Label casinos are an old concept and several software platforms offer these. They give an affiliate the ability to customize the casino via domain names, graphics and target audience. Grand Virtual has been doing this for years and the complaints they generate are minuscule.

On the other hand, Gambling Federation has had their share of headaches.

It's just another marketing technique, and it's something that a lot of affiliates go for.

Thanks Brian,

May I add to this that I take my business very serious? As a matter of fact, it takes a lot of work once you decide to take it serious.

I am sorry that people had bad experiences with some other white label casinos. It was and never will be my intention to mislead people. To be honest, all this has made me think different about the whole case. And, if needed, I will take appropriate actions. If it requires me to take the white labels of off my domains, I will.

But, I truly think there is nothing wrong with having white label casinos the way I have them. In fact, I am very proud to be able to have them the way I do.

Please take note: I do not promote the way we all hate. I have never send one single email to people about these casinos. I take my business too damn serious. It took me years to get to where I am now. Spamming is for loosers.

My apologies to anyone who is offended with my urls. And, sorry about the way my goldeninternetc site looks. I am not a webmaster. I am a business man. And, as far as I know, I am not the only one.

I will keep a very close eye on how this evolves.

I thank everybody for their input. It is really appreciated.

Thanks.

[Mousey]

Originally Posted by Pinababy69

Well, I decided to go searching on my own. So I went to the Lucky American Casino website, where I had opened a flash account last night to see what was what. I went to their Terms and Conditions page.

This is from Term 1:

To be eligible to receive the welcome bonus a player must have NOT received a Welcome Bonus from and casino operated by Naden which are on the following list:
Click here.


When you "click here", the link takes you to this website:

http://list.playsharepartners.com/

And here is a copy and paste of that page.

222 Best
247 Club Las Vegas
365 Vegas Casino
777 Winner
888 CBO
Big Cash Casino
Black Thunder Casino
Carbon Casino
Casino 2 See
Casino Bingo
Casino Club Las Vegas
Casino Luckys
Casino World
Catterick Casino
Cherry Casino
Crystal Ball Casino
Dee European Casino
Fancy a Punt
Golden Cairo
Golden Internet Casino
Het Casino
Lucky American Casino
Pharaohs Casino
Pharaohs Casino TEST
Players Club Casino
Players Palace
Players Palace Casino
Purple Vegas Casino
Scandic Casino
Sealand Casino
Sean Test
Sintillate
The Player Casino
USA Grand Casino
W1Casino


Anyone wanna count how many casinos are there now? And this is just from Playshare. How many others are in the game? Multiply that number above times however many "reputable" casino groups have signed on for this program.

Oh yes, they are doing the players such a favour. Can you imagine the list of casinos you would have to keep and double check and cross reference, before deciding to sign up at a new one?

OMG, it's so fucking ludicrous, I'm ALMOST laughing. And some of the names? Ha ha...Sintillate? And what about Cherry Casino? Is the REAL Cherry Casino still around? How do they feel about their name being associated with a sham like this?

There are 35 of them BTW, with many more on the way I'm sure. God help anyone new to online gaming is all I can say.

OH MY GAWD!!!

I know I shouldn't shout in an online forum, but I couldn't help it.... And that 35 is only from the Playshare bunch.... what are their name brand casinos, btw? I get lost when we start talking about the affiliate groups.

"888 CBO" ?!? "Casino 2 See"?? It reads like a ready-made list of cheap rogues.