Microgaming White Label Issue

[jetset]

Originally Posted by Mario

Hi All,

Hope everyone is well.

So the cat is out of the bag and we would like to thank everyone’s participation on these posts.

Without your feedback and concerns we will surely be at a disadvantage for ensuring a program like this runs AND is maintained in a sensible and proper manner as what you would come to expect from an industry leading gaming provider and casinos.

We do strongly agree that a WL program like this can and could become a big mess and thus we will ensure that the following is addressed and managed.

We agree with the statements that WL's needs to have clear guidelines put in place and be monitored to ensure that the software provider, the licensee AND the player are not compromised in anyway.

We do vet our partners and the program is strictly monitored at all times.

If a partner is seen to be overstepping the line we scrutinize and take appropriate actions against the guilty parties.

We manage the player relationship as there is no doubt that the player comes first at all times and as such we ensure the player experience will not be compromised at all.

PlayShare assume full responsibility for all payouts to players.

We are transparent in our Terms and Conditions as to whom we are partnered with in the WL program.

Buy saying this we would like to make you aware that we will not prohibit anyone from opening up more than on WL account but we do make it quite clear on the terms and conditions that you would only get on sign-up offer on the WL program. (This does excludes CasinoShare and Grand Monaco)

Hope that this does clear out some of your concerns as we come to suspect that a program such like this could make or break ones reputation easily for all parties involved and the players are our first priority at all times.

I do request that if there is any other concerns which has not been addressed in this post please do not hesitate to keep on posting so that we can assure that we succeed where other have failed.

Best Regards
Mario
PlayShare Group Representative

Mario - IMO the cat should never have been in the bag to start with - where top companies like MGS and Playshare are involved it is disappointing that full public statements on this significant departure from the usual business models were not made in advance, identifying the clones and reassuring players that the clone owners have been thoroughly checked out.

Players and affiliates need to be assured that they will be safe and respected at these offshoots of the mainstream business despite your assurance that these are (apparently?) being monitored closely.

And I have to agree with other posters here that even at this early stage 35 clones are already likely to complicate the integrity and identification issue - who knows what the radar screen will look like in a year's time, when the probability of hassles may be even higher.

You said above: "PlayShare assume full responsibility for all payouts to players." That is reassuring, especially if the clone owner goes down, leaving players unpaid - I suspect that your company will be held to that as some form of security going forward. But again, why was this not made part of a public announcement? When you leave things unsaid, speculation blossoms and not always positively.

Mousey has covered very well other points you have made here, and I agree with her that it is especially important that players are able to see easily and upfront which clone "brands" are part of your scheme and subject to your T&Cs.

Other MGS licensees embarking on similar white label programs need to do the same imo.

Who is "Naden" ? (see Pina's post above) And I echo Pina's remark "That's why I want to know WHO is involved in this." What other small clone brands are now out there, and which MGS licensees are backing them?

I do not believe things have gone so far as to be irretrievable, given the past solid reputations of Playshare and MGS, but imo it is going to take some straight and upfront public announcements, backed by real precautionary systems and genuine clone policing from all the MGS licensees involved in this scheme, and probably MGS itself.

And they need to clearly identify their offshoots and indicate where their responsibility begins and ends - particularly regarding payment and failed operations.

[Addisyn]

Pinababy mentioned to me she was involved in this thread so I read all the posts. For one thing I had no clue White Label casino's even existed!

Now I know what they are and will be aware when the spam starts up. From reading through this thread I see many pitfalls and deceptions can and may be perpetuated on Clueless player.

I, for one, am only playing Casinomeister accredited casinos. If they aren't on that list I don't play. This allows me to insure I will have recourse through Pitch A Bitch and access to the casino manager directly through this site.

What I can't grasp is why in the hell Microgaming is willing to lose all the goodwill their name owns. That is something you can't buy and once lost cannot be recouped.

Does this have anything to do with the loss of revenue from US players? With a White Label you get the player to deposit thinking they will get a bonus but actually they already had their one chance. For the bonus followers this could be quite costly.

So if I get this straight you have one White Label casino which encompasses for the sake of understanding the 35 casinos Pinababy69 mentioned in her post. I sign up at Cherry Casino, get my bonus. Okay fine and good. So I sign up and deposit at the other 34 casinos only to find out I have already had my one chance at a bonus.

If you multiple this by all the White Label casinos and the casinos under their control this could be quite a mess, but also a windfall for exactly who? Is Microgaming making the profit off of this or the Microgaming White Label clones.

Am I missing something? Microgaming is willing to lose all the goodwill associated with their brand name, they are vouching for all these White label casinos, and the players have no worries?

Thank goodness I don't care if I get a bonus or not. Plus thanks to this thread I have knowledge and as we all know is power!

Thanks everyone that contributed to this thread. A big shout out to Pinababy69, winbig, Mario, Jetset and everyone I missed.

[Pinababy69]

Originally Posted by jetset

And they need to clearly identify their offshoots and indicate where their responsibility begins and ends - particularly regarding payment and failed operations.

If I could just add one other issue in there Jet, it would be dispute resolution. Will these clones fall under the Playshare umbrella as pertains to eCOGRA? Or will they be left to fend for themselves? And if eCOGRA choose not to be involved in each of these "separate" operations (and I wouldn't blame them)...who will be responsible for resolving problems? Casinomeister? The top dogs at eCOGRA must be sweating bullets right now. What a potential PR nightmare, especially given their efforts in the last year to branch out and try to get in touch more with the gaming community.

I can't stress enough that this is a nightmare waiting to happen, particularly in regards to players who are new to the online gaming scene. I don't need a crystal ball to see how this is gonna play out, and what the worst case scenario could be.

Jetset, once again, an outstanding post. I wish that I possessed half of your knowledge and eloquence when it comes to posting. Unfortunately, I run on emotion and passion for a particular topic most of the time. You have my respect for your balanced and unbiased view regarding this whole sticky situation, and for your level-headedness and to the point posts.

[just play]

Does anyone besides Jetset, Mrracetrack, Nash and myself give a shit?

For me, sometimes it seems you are discussing things between yourselves, so I don't post. I just don't know enough about the industry to make a worthwhile post, so I just read. Also like someone mentioned I have/had no idea what white label casinos were.

Sounds crappy to me, but what can we as players do? Not play there? But there will always be people who will right? So where do we go from here?

[Pinababy69]

Originally Posted by just play

For me, sometimes it seems you are discussing things between yourselves, so I don't post. I just don't know enough about the industry to make a worthwhile post, so I just read. Also like someone mentioned I have/had no idea what white label casinos were.

Sounds crappy to me, but what can we as players do? Not play there? But there will always be people who will right? So where do we go from here?

JustPlay, I'm sorry if you got that impression. Every thread should always be open to everyone, and you should always feel like you are free to post your opinion, even if it doesn't agree with the majority.

As a player, sadly there is not much that you can do. As you stated, you can choose not to play there..but yes, there will always be those who will. Either they are the uninformed (of which there are many), or people who just decide that the issue really doesn't matter to them personally. It is a personal decision where anyone chooses to play....but I like to see that players at least have the option of making an "informed" choice. And that's what threads like this are for.

Again, I'm sorry if you felt unwelcome in this thread, or any other.

[just play]

Shit, I knew that didn't sound right...I don't feel unwelcome, I never feel that way here.

I just don't know enough about the industry.

You all are so intelligent about online casinos, to me it's like I am in first grade and you all are in college, if that makes sense.

[jetset]

I don't (and won't presume to) speak for eCOGRA, but my understanding is that their inspection, monitoring and advocacy services are based on the scrutiny and oversight of each individual brand and its management. In other words each site bearing the Safe and Fair seal has had to earn it individually.

It is therefore (in my opinion) extremely unlikely that "mini brands" like these white label sites could afford the investment and upkeep necessary to either qualify for or maintain an eCOGRA accreditation and will therefore not be eligible for its services.

As I perceive the present issue here, my opinion is that these white label projects, if initiated by eCOGRA accredited groups and even if said white labels are not carrying the eCOGRA seal - have the potential to adversely impact eCOGRA, too.

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by Pinababy69

If I could just add one other issue in there Jet, it would be dispute resolution. Will these clones fall under the Playshare umbrella as pertains to eCOGRA? Or will they be left to fend for themselves? And if eCOGRA choose not to be involved in each of these "separate" operations (and I wouldn't blame them)...who will be responsible for resolving problems? Casinomeister? The top dogs at eCOGRA must be sweating bullets right now. What a potential PR nightmare, especially given their efforts in the last year to branch out and try to get in touch more with the gaming community.

I can't stress enough that this is a nightmare waiting to happen, particularly in regards to players who are new to the online gaming scene. I don't need a crystal ball to see how this is gonna play out, and what the worst case scenario could be.

Jetset, once again, an outstanding post. I wish that I possessed half of your knowledge and eloquence when it comes to posting. Unfortunately, I run on emotion and passion for a particular topic most of the time. You have my respect for your balanced and unbiased view regarding this whole sticky situation, and for your level-headedness and to the point posts.

I suspect this has been going on far longer than we believe. I took totalesoft to task about the dodgy looking "package 1" offered on their sister site, which was for a casino "using Microgaming software supplied through Roxy Palace". At the time I suggested this was an indication of a rogue website, but it now looks like this is the Roxy Palace "White label" operation. Grand Privvy run theirs through "Mint Las Vegas" (which also can download Roxy Palace).
What seems a little different now is that the download is not necessarily a known MG brand through a disguised link, but a totally distinct lobby, INTENDED to be untraceable back to the main central casino by the player at the time of account registration and depositing.

Mario states that only one bonus per player will be allowed over all the white label brands. Well, Prime Casino could not even enforce bonus rules for ONE casino - and robbed one player's Neteller account as a delayed remedy. Are we seriously expected to believe that all these rules in the white label scheme will be enforced at source, or are we going to go beyond denied SUBs, and have mass confiscations of winnings because a bonus "should not have been given", with the odd raid on Neteller accounts.

As for not spamming, well, this is complete BS! I already receive spam for some of the "playshare" white label casinos. It is obviously spam, but I always assumed it was Playtech or RTG, and the mailers were crude, amateurly constructed, had no proper unsuscribe link, and never came from an identifiable source. To find that I have actually received all this from MICROGAMING CASINOMEISTER ACCREDITED operations through their while label schemes, along with the eCogra accredited Grand privvy group's own while label scheme, comes as something of a shock. It seems I am NOT being spammed by the dodgy end of the industry, but mainly by the top suppliers.

This issue will also make problems for any GENUINE MG start up operation, as we will all be asking "what MG are you a white label of?" (and that's only the players who dont just assume it to be a white label and ignore it altogether).

Given that MG was about the only software supplier that didn't have white label casinos before, we have to assume that ALL softwares could have this problem.

Given the scale of bonus complaints and dodgy denials of winnings so far this year from MG casinos, they need dozens of white label outlets like we all need bullets in our heads

[Pinababy69]

Originally Posted by just play

Shit, I knew that didn't sound right...I don't feel unwelcome, I never feel that way here.

I just don't know enough about the industry.

You all are so intelligent about online casinos, to me it's like I am in first grade and you all are in college, if that makes sense.

LOL....JustPlay, do you know how much stuff I post that doesn't sound right? Ha ha....no comments from the peanut gallery please.

If you are more comfortable just reading, then by all means limit yourself to that. At least you are informed, and that is always my goal when I post on a serious topic. Reality.

I take your comments as a compliment, so thank you!!

Originally Posted by jetset

As I perceive the present issue here, my opinion is that these white label projects, if initiated by eCOGRA accredited groups and even if said white labels are not carrying the eCOGRA seal - have the potential to adversely impact eCOGRA, too.

I agree Jet, a PR powderkeg. And possibly undoing any positive steps forward they have taken in the last year. I'm referencing in particular the way they handled the JPF affair. I was happy with their resolution, replies, etc. I do not envy any of them their jobs right now.

[Pinababy69]

Originally Posted by vinylweatherman

I suspect this has been going on far longer than we believe. I took totalesoft to task about the dodgy looking "package 1" offered on their sister site, which was for a casino "using Microgaming software supplied through Roxy Palace". At the time I suggested this was an indication of a rogue website, but it now looks like this is the Roxy Palace "White label" operation. Grand Privvy run theirs through "Mint Las Vegas" (which also can download Roxy Palace).
What seems a little different now is that the download is not necessarily a known MG brand through a disguised link, but a totally distinct lobby, INTENDED to be untraceable back to the main central casino by the player at the time of account registration and depositing.

Mario states that only one bonus per player will be allowed over all the white label brands. Well, Prime Casino could not even enforce bonus rules for ONE casino - and robbed one player's Neteller account as a delayed remedy. Are we seriously expected to believe that all these rules in the white label scheme will be enforced at source, or are we going to go beyond denied SUBs, and have mass confiscations of winnings because a bonus "should not have been given", with the odd raid on Neteller accounts.

As for not spamming, well, this is complete BS! I already receive spam for some of the "playshare" white label casinos. It is obviously spam, but I always assumed it was Playtech or RTG, and the mailers were crude, amateurly constructed, had no proper unsuscribe link, and never came from an identifiable source. To find that I have actually received all this from MICROGAMING CASINOMEISTER ACCREDITED operations through their while label schemes, along with the eCogra accredited Grand privvy group's own while label scheme, comes as something of a shock. It seems I am NOT being spammed by the dodgy end of the industry, but mainly by the top suppliers.

This issue will also make problems for any GENUINE MG start up operation, as we will all be asking "what MG are you a white label of?" (and that's only the players who dont just assume it to be a white label and ignore it altogether).

Given that MG was about the only software supplier that didn't have white label casinos before, we have to assume that ALL softwares could have this problem.

Given the scale of bonus complaints and dodgy denials of winnings so far this year from MG casinos, they need dozens of white label outlets like we all need bullets in our heads

Bravo VWM...I was wondering when you would chime in. Excellent post.

Do ya think they were hoping we'd never figure it out? And just keep on blaming sleazy affiliates for all this?