Bodog Conference Cancelled

[spearmaster]

Generally, “[g]ambling is illegal unless regulated by an individual state,”7 such as Nevada.

This is not a fact, this is an opinion. There is no reference to relevant Federal law, nor even any State laws.

This is tantamount to saying that everything which is not covered by law is thus illegal. It is no better than the DoJ's "opinion" that online gambling is illegal.

The Casino City test is a case asserting the right to free speech as guaranteed under the First Amendment - it is NOT a case which attempts to determine the legality or illegality of online gambling and cannot in any case be used as "past precedent" in a case directly related to online gambling.

Again, what you have presented is an opinion of the judge, rather than a ruling - under no circumstances has the judge RULED that online gambling is illegal. Were he to have actually considered the issue of the legality of online gambling, he could have come to any of a number of conclusions but he would have had a hard time proving anything other than the fact that the Wire Act bans sports wagering by wire communication.

The two cases you have presented are opinions. Judges have already ruled on the application of the Wire Act to non-sports betting activities and determined that said activities are NOT covered by the Wire Act.

As there is no other Federal law which governs anything related to the placing of a wager of any sort, it must be held that online gambling is NOT illegal according to Federal law. Individual states may or may not have laws which relate to online gambling (or all forms of gambling) - the mere fact that some states have declared internet gambling illegal supports the position that, without such a law, internet gambling would NOT be illegal.

The law is there to determine what is ILLEGAL. Law does not cover the LEGALITY of any situation - that is, if I pick my nose, and the law does not directly cover this activity, or any other form of this activity (using a Q-tip instead of my finger, for example), it cannot be considered illegal.

[cipher]

Mr. Humphrey writes: "The ruling gives no comfort to Casino City; it fires a silver bullet into the heart of the modern-day Draculas who continue to present the intellectual scam that offshore online gambling websites are legally OK. Simply put, the acceptance of sports, casino and poker bets by online websites violates numerous federal laws and the anti-gambling statutes of all 50 states."

I think Mr. Humphrey might want to find away in which to get appointed as a Judge then, because until he becomes a Judge and sits on a case his opinion is nothing short of meaningless.

Have a good one.

[Linus]

This is not a fact, this is an opinion. There is no reference to relevant Federal law, nor even any State laws.

This is tantamount to saying that everything which is not covered by law is thus illegal. It is no better than the DoJ's "opinion" that online gambling is illegal.

Whether something's illegal may be a matter of opinion, but some people's opinions count more than others - for example, those of judges and prosecutors.

The Casino City test is a case asserting the right to free speech as guaranteed under the First Amendment - it is NOT a case which attempts to determine the legality or illegality of online gambling and cannot in any case be used as "past precedent" in a case directly related to online gambling.

Again, what you have presented is an opinion of the judge, rather than a ruling - under no circumstances has the judge RULED that online gambling is illegal. Were he to have actually considered the issue of the legality of online gambling, he could have come to any of a number of conclusions but he would have had a hard time proving anything other than the fact that the Wire Act bans sports wagering by wire communication.

I agree the Wire Act is limited to sports betting - although it's worth noting the Justice Dept. does not agree.

It's misleading, though, to treat the Wire Act as if it were the only Federal law that deals with gambling.

The two cases you have presented are opinions. Judges have already ruled on the application of the Wire Act to non-sports betting activities and determined that said activities are NOT covered by the Wire Act.

As there is no other Federal law which governs anything related to the placing of a wager of any sort, it must be held that online gambling is NOT illegal according to Federal law.

There are half a dozen or more different Federal laws that govern wagering.

The MO indictment, for example, alleges violations of at least 7 different Federal laws.

Individual states may or may not have laws which relate to online gambling (or all forms of gambling) - the mere fact that some states have declared internet gambling illegal supports the position that, without such a law, internet gambling would NOT be illegal.

All states have laws that govern commercial gambling. In no state is it legal, unless state-sanctioned (state lotteries), or state-licensed (casinos).

The law is there to determine what is ILLEGAL. Law does not cover the LEGALITY of any situation - that is, if I pick my nose, and the law does not directly cover this activity, or any other form of this activity (using a Q-tip instead of my finger, for example), it cannot be considered illegal.

In the US, you have to be licensed to carry on certain trades or businesses. That applies to, for example, being a lawyer (you have to have a license to practice law), and to commercial gambling.

[bossplayer]

In the US, you have to be licensed to carry on certain trades or businesses. That applies to, for example, being a lawyer (you have to have a license to practice law), and to commercial gambling.

I believe these are very important words you used here, as the business end, is NOT in the US

[GrandMaster]

If I have a friend in the Stateline Casino in West Wendover, Nevada, and I am standing across the street in Wendover, Utah, and I am shouting instructions to him how to bet, am I gambling in Utah or Nevada?

If I am in Costa Rica and offer legal advice to US residents, do I have to be licensed in the US? Do my clients commit a crime by taking legal advice from me?

[spearmaster]

Whether something's illegal may be a matter of opinion, but some people's opinions count more than others - for example, those of judges and prosecutors.

If a judge renders an opinion but not a ruling, and another judge makes a ruling based on his opinion, whose opinion should I believe?

There's no point in going around in circles. A Federal judge has ALREADY ruled that online casino gambling does NOT fall within the confines of the Wire Act.

There are half a dozen or more different Federal laws that govern wagering.

The MO indictment, for example, alleges violations of at least 7 different Federal laws.

Please state the laws which are related to wagering. RICO is certainly NOT one of them. Tax evasion is also not related to wagering. Wagering taxes imply that wagering is LEGAL - if illegal, how the hell can they tax it?

Let's not try to skirt the obvious - the only law which governs the legality of wagering in any shape or form is the Wire Act.

All states have laws that govern commercial gambling. In no state is it legal, unless state-sanctioned (state lotteries), or state-licensed (casinos).

Did you actually research this?

Did it occur to you that in some states, what is not considered gambling may be considered gambling in another? For example, in California stud poker is prohibited - but draw poker is not. Some states define lotteries as gambling, others do not. Some states even considered video poker terminals as games of skill (and thus not gambling) if I am not mistaken. Some states allow poker in private places (ie. the home) but NOT in public places.

I think that your claim above is a bit premature, or maybe just a bit too general.

In the US, you have to be licensed to carry on certain trades or businesses. That applies to, for example, being a lawyer (you have to have a license to practice law), and to commercial gambling.

The businesses are located outside the US. The fact that one can make a phone call or connect to an overseas website is completely irrelevant to a business license in the US.

For example, you can legally buy pot in the Netherlands - by phone call, or by visiting a website. You have not broken the law in either country.

You WILL break the laws of the US, however, if you import the pot. But the law does NOT govern the purchase of the pot in a foreign country from a foreign-based business.

Simple as that. BetOnSports is legally licensed as a bookmaker under the laws of the United Kingdom. It does not require a license in the US in order to operate its business. However, if it accepts sports wagers from Americans, it can then be considered in breach of US law because wagers on sporting events are explicitly prohibited by the Wire Act. This does NOT apply to casino gambling according to a Federal judge.

Another case in point - lotteries may not be sold interstate - that is to say, you cannot buy a lottery ticket issued by the state next door from your home state unless your home state also participates in this lottery. Yet you can look in any Time or Newsweek and find ads for lotteries in Spain, Liechtenstein, Switzerland, Germany etc. You may do this by sending in the order form in the magazine, or you can call in a purchase by phone. Is this not illegal?

I repeat again: The U.S. Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals has ruled that the Wire Act applies only to sports betting and not other types of online gambling. The Supreme Court has not officially ruled on the meaning of the Federal Wire Act as it pertains to online gambling.

[GrandMaster]

Please state the laws which are related to wagering. RICO is certainly NOT one of them. Tax evasion is also not related to wagering. Wagering taxes imply that wagering is LEGAL - if illegal, how the hell can they tax it?

You have to pay income tax even on income from illegal sources. Some states, I believe Arizona is one of them, have a tax on marijuana.

[cipher]

You have to pay income tax even on income from illegal sources. Some states, I believe Arizona is one of them, have a tax on marijuana.

Any taxes that would be assessed here in the U. S . incident to marijauna would only be within those states that have approved Medical Marijuana legisalation. Arizona and Oregon I believe are two states that have inacted such laws.

Have a good one.

[dominique]

You have to pay taxes on income you received as citizen or resident in the united states, on all income, legal or illegal. Unless you already paid them in another country, and here it gets murky.

It doesn't matter however if you received the money legally or illegally. The taxman wants you, and you better well pay him and dot your Is and cross your ts.

Apparently BOS owes some taxes from way back.

However, this does not normally lead to arrest of a company's employees because their boss owes back taxes. Nuts.

[Linus]

If I have a friend in the Stateline Casino in West Wendover, Nevada, and I am standing across the street in Wendover, Utah, and I am shouting instructions to him how to bet, am I gambling in Utah or Nevada?

I don't know, because you could at least argue your friend was the one who was doing the gambling. But if you leave him out of it, the answer is, a person in Utah cannot gamble legally at a casino in Nevada, whether by phone, internet, or by shouting. He must leave Utah, and go to Nevada, in order to do it.

If, on the other hand, Stateline could offer games legally to people in Utah, don't you think they would?

If I am in Costa Rica and offer legal advice to US residents, do I have to be licensed in the US? Do my clients commit a crime by taking legal advice from me?

Well, your clients surely don't commit any crime by taking your advice, since it's the advice-giving that's prohibited, not the taking of it.

As for the Costa Rican... I know you need a license from a state, in order to practice there. For example, if you move from one state to another, you have to get re-licensed. More than that is beyond my ken. As a practical matter, as long as he stayed in Costa Rica, I'm sure he'd be fine.