Betsafe - Dont understand the market

[sparkz]

Im fuming. Only an hour ago was I singing betsafe's praises and now its completely the opposite.

I made my withdraw. After an hour I checked to see what the progress of the withdraw was.

It had been removed and put back on my account with them and I had been given no notice by email whatsoever.

I saw when I signed up they accept various forms of ID including passport/driving licence. I dont need to get into the debate about that but I have neither. However at casinos that use the same software they have ALWAYS accepted my birth certificate as ID.

Anyways I got in touch with support who told me an email had been sent regarding identification (I havent recieved any even now). They copied some of them apparent email which said I need passport/driving licence, card front and back scans and of a copy of my statement which shows betsafe transactions.


When I asked about the birth certificate the support staff said they would ask and came back to say they wont accept it as valid ID.


2 thing certainly baffles me here. Firstly what I was offering was not only my birth certificate but a copy of myself holding it. If fraud was found to of happened then they have me in a picture next to my birth certificate so any investigator would know who is to blame (me). Obviously a birth certificate is just as valid as a passport and shows the same.

The next is they want a statement showing my casino transactions.... What planet are they on...seriously?

The thing here is they should fully accept any bank statement showing my details. If I have to send 1 with transactions to them it will take a month for that statement to come through since I havent long received my last statement. Why should anyone have to wait that long when they have full proof that they are legal to gamble and they are who they say they are?


Edit: and surely this is rogueish behaviour. I just got this reply from them:

"Unfortunately we need you to send in some kind of ID, if you don’t have a ID card please go and ask for a passport. This is for security reasons and nothing we can make any exceptions from. In addition to that we also need you to send in a statement that shows your deposit made to Betsafe."

What the hell. They are actually telling me to go and get a passport, as in apply for 1 which takes 2 or 3 weeks. Pay £100 for it, get peoples names and passport numbers counter signed on it and go for an interview to prove who I am just so I can send it to them.

Seriously they need a wake up call

[azzy]

Im fuming. Only an hour ago was I singing betsafe's praises and now its completely the opposite.

I made my withdraw. After an hour I checked to see what the progress of the withdraw was.

It had been removed and put back on my account with them and I had been given no notice by email whatsoever.

I saw when I signed up they accept various forms of ID including passport/driving licence. I dont need to get into the debate about that but I have neither. However at casinos that use the same software they have ALWAYS accepted my birth certificate as ID.

Anyways I got in touch with support who told me an email had been sent regarding identification (I havent recieved any even now). They copied some of them apparent email which said I need passport/driving licence, card front and back scans and of a copy of my statement which shows betsafe transactions.


When I asked about the birth certificate the support staff said they would ask and came back to say they wont accept it as valid ID.


2 thing certainly baffles me here. Firstly what I was offering was not only my birth certificate but a copy of myself holding it. If fraud was found to of happened then they have me in a picture next to my birth certificate so any investigator would know who is to blame (me). Obviously a birth certificate is just as valid as a passport and shows the same.

The next is they want a statement showing my casino transactions.... What planet are they on...seriously?

The thing here is they should fully accept any bank statement showing my details. If I have to send 1 with transactions to them it will take a month for that statement to come through since I havent long received my last statement. Why should anyone have to wait that long when they have full proof that they are legal to gamble and they are who they say they are?


Edit: and surely this is rogueish behaviour. I just got this reply from them:

"Unfortunately we need you to send in some kind of ID, if you don’t have a ID card please go and ask for a passport. This is for security reasons and nothing we can make any exceptions from. In addition to that we also need you to send in a statement that shows your deposit made to Betsafe."

What the hell. They are actually telling me to go and get a passport, as in apply for 1 which takes 2 or 3 weeks. Pay £100 for it, get peoples names and passport numbers counter signed on it and go for an interview to prove who I am just so I can send it to them.

Seriously they need a wake up call

Remember that they are now part of Betsson. They have big markets...

It's common rule of many Netent casinos that you have to send copy of passport or driving licence. I think all casinos not accept "birth certificate".

I use ewallets so it easy to take a copy of screen (not need copy of visa-cards). Also same method will works internet banking system.

I m not sure do they accept if you ask them calling to you or you will call to them..

[sparkz]

Well in the end I just couldnt be bothered with it to be honest.

Played my balance, lost it and thats that. To be fair im still fuming. I only replayed the balance because I knew full well I would eventually lose it.

[vinylweatherman]

Im fuming. Only an hour ago was I singing betsafe's praises and now its completely the opposite.

I made my withdraw. After an hour I checked to see what the progress of the withdraw was.

It had been removed and put back on my account with them and I had been given no notice by email whatsoever.

I saw when I signed up they accept various forms of ID including passport/driving licence. I dont need to get into the debate about that but I have neither. However at casinos that use the same software they have ALWAYS accepted my birth certificate as ID.

Anyways I got in touch with support who told me an email had been sent regarding identification (I havent recieved any even now). They copied some of them apparent email which said I need passport/driving licence, card front and back scans and of a copy of my statement which shows betsafe transactions.


When I asked about the birth certificate the support staff said they would ask and came back to say they wont accept it as valid ID.


2 thing certainly baffles me here. Firstly what I was offering was not only my birth certificate but a copy of myself holding it. If fraud was found to of happened then they have me in a picture next to my birth certificate so any investigator would know who is to blame (me). Obviously a birth certificate is just as valid as a passport and shows the same.

The next is they want a statement showing my casino transactions.... What planet are they on...seriously?

The thing here is they should fully accept any bank statement showing my details. If I have to send 1 with transactions to them it will take a month for that statement to come through since I havent long received my last statement. Why should anyone have to wait that long when they have full proof that they are legal to gamble and they are who they say they are?


Edit: and surely this is rogueish behaviour. I just got this reply from them:

"Unfortunately we need you to send in some kind of ID, if you don’t have a ID card please go and ask for a passport. This is for security reasons and nothing we can make any exceptions from. In addition to that we also need you to send in a statement that shows your deposit made to Betsafe."

What the hell. They are actually telling me to go and get a passport, as in apply for 1 which takes 2 or 3 weeks. Pay £100 for it, get peoples names and passport numbers counter signed on it and go for an interview to prove who I am just so I can send it to them.

Seriously they need a wake up call

You should be able to get one of the local authority "citizen cards" that are used to prove age when buying age restricted products. Only the ones with the "pass" mark (a holographic security mark) are government approved to be accepted as proof of ID in the same way that a drivers license would be. They are cheaper than passports, and although you still need to apply in person and have your documents checked, this can be done locally, rather than at a regional passport office.

Passports now take 6 weeks or more for a first one. You can say that you need it as a proof of ID because no business is prepared to accept a birth certificate. You can also raise this problem with your MP and trading standards, as a proper solution requires the government to provide some kind of standardised scheme throughout the UK that people who cannot get a driving license can use to get a driving license like ID card.

The EU has passed a directive, and it has been implemented in such a way as to be incompatible with the UK way of doing things. Other EU countries issue national ID cards, but the UK is "odd one out", thus the EU directive causes problems for some UK customers in cross-border commerce.

Passports are so sensitive that although they can be shown as proof of ID, businesses are not supposed to be taking copies, or in the case of online commerce, being sent them. The security services DO know that in practice busineses DO ask to see passports, and often take copies. There has even been a crackdown on tourist businesses asking to RETAIN passports as a "securty deposit" on things like boat hire, hotel rooms, etc. We have been told NOT to hand in passports for "safekeeping by the hotel", but to lock them in our room safe.
A driving license is not such a problem, and it is OK to allow businesses to have and store copies, and the "citizen card" is OK for this too. Neither will get a fraudster past border control, which is why there is such a worry about passports being stolen and modified to be used illegally to gain entry into the UK.

The UK government is not really taking this issue seriously enough, and is looking the other way whilst the sending of JPEG files of passports to offshore commerce companies is becoming the norm. Unless the GOVERNMENT makes a fuss, the practice will not change, and customers will have to accept it for now.

[sparkz]

I didnt know they even had those.

The thing I find though is you say documents are required to get the ID card i.e birth certificate. Its a no logic thing that an ID card like that is ok, but the thing which you use to get an ID card like that in the first place is not. I offered them the full apple, but they would only take the apple core.

You have to wonder what sort of casinos we are dealing with. Certainly a lot of them are shameless criminals. We pay their wages, we are customers and should always be treated right. What happened today was nothing short of being mugged off. Instead of them understanding my reasons and actually researching what the UK government and stances on ID are like they stuck to rules on a sheet of paper.

In retail stores many have return policys. For example if their policy stated the product can only be returned to them up to 30 days after purchase and a customer comes back with that product after 31 or 32 days many company's will let the typical pen and paper rules slip a bit and refund them. That is because they understand the customer could of got the latest return date wrong by mistake and that they want to keep the customer happy so they return time and time again.

Of course my withdraw was $200 from a $100 deposit. Thats only about £60 profit. I have been a more high rolling style player at some points. Sometimes in a week alone I have deposited over $3000, with my average deposit amount per month of recent times being at least $1000. So in this situation sheer ignorance, no compassion, and rudeness has indeed cost them more than a measly $100.

What the other thing was is the bank statement. From correspondence they made no request whatsoever for a copy of my e-banking statement. What they wanted was specifically a copy of my paper bank statement showing transactions to their casino. The logic on this was that I would have to wait 30 days for my next bank statement. If I got a mini statement from the bank it would not show my full account details and just be a small bit of paper without my name on it showing recent transactions which they would not of accepted. That would make payout time to a month which should be branded as rogue behaviour. If a casino doesnt process a withdraw for a month they never become accredited and are frowned upon.

The support were just as bad. The guy at the documents department was just a waste of space. 1st reply was telling me pretty much "if you dont have a passport... go and get 1 for us to see", then on the next reply from them it was basically the same thing. Once the money was lost and I told them to close my account I didnt even get a reply.

If you want to make sure your bets are safe, then dont use betsafe!!!

[GrandMaster]

Passports are so sensitive that although they can be shown as proof of ID, businesses are not supposed to be taking copies, or in the case of online commerce, being sent them.

Errm, in some cases businesses have to photocopy passports and keep the photocopy, e.g., when verifying that a new employee has the right to work in the UK or when carrying out anti-moneylaundering checks, copies of the documents produces have to be kept as evidence that the required checks have taken place.

[sparkz]

Errm, in some cases businesses have to photocopy passports and keep the photocopy, e.g., when verifying that a new employee has the right to work in the UK or when carrying out anti-moneylaundering checks, copies of the documents produces have to be kept as evidence that the required checks have taken place.

Businesses dont primarily use a passport. They use a national insurance card more often than not. This proves the person legally can work in the UK and they can run backround checks from it. Some places ask for that and a form of ID which can range from anything from a tax certificate to a birth certificate. For my job when I started they needed bank details (naturally to pay me) my national insurance card and something else with my name on. I gave my birth certificate for that.

The only time a passport is exclusively needed is if you are of foreign nationality and the department of customs and whatnot gets in touch. This will tell them that you are allowed to be in the country and they can then check weather you have applied for a work permit and can legally work. The only foreign nationals that came from overseas and dont have a passport are the 1's trying to get in illegally (minus a few cases) so if a passport cant be found on them they will investigate further.

Other uses for a passport is of course to go overseas and some people can use it for ID in shops when buying alcohol.

[GrandMaster]

National insurance number is not a proof of eligibility to work in the UK, nor does it necessarily belong to the person presenting it. Read http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/si...df?view=Binary about what documents are acceptable.

[sparkz]

National insurance number is not a proof of eligibility to work in the UK, nor does it necessarily belong to the person presenting it. Read http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/si...df?view=Binary about what documents are acceptable.

Its given to someone who is granted residency in the UK, In the workplace for me, everyone else at my work a document essentially needed was the national insurance card which they took a copy of and stored on record.

[GrandMaster]

It applies to everybody. Towards the end it specifically says that the NI number is not sufficient. These checks are not obligatory, they provide a defence if the employee turns out to be illegal, otherwise the employer can be fined £10000.

Anti-money laundering checks are another situation where a photocopy of your passport may be made and retained.