RTG Craps Software voids +EV bets: Video included

**mightymaron** · 6th February 2011, 11:08 PM

This happened on Intertops for real money and I was able to duplicate it in fun money there and also on Inet casinos.

I was playing real money and had a wager on no pass only. A point was made...a couple of rolls were made which did not make the point nor the 7. I went to the cashier to transfer more money available on table. I come back to see the bet gone and the point eliminated.

The following video shows that when the bet is on the pass line. A point is made, another roll is made which does not affect the pass wager. I go to cashier screen, come back, and wager is still in effect with a pop up window saying so.

After the pass line wager is settled with additional rolls, I place a wager on the "no pass" line. A roll and the point is established. Another roll which is not a 7 nor the point. I go to the cashier, I return to find the wager off the table and the point gone. the bet was voided.

The result of this: When wager is on pass line and play is interupted..-EV pass line bet is enforced. More rolls will make a 7 (which loses for the player) than the point.
When the wager is +EV(no pass line) and play is interupted, the +EV bet on the table for the player is voided. More rolls win (7's) verse the rolls making the point

This increases the house advantage when an interuption occurs because the system voids the +EV player bet while enforcing the -EV bet for the player.

Youtube link for the video...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSDBLfOQ-Dk"]YouTube - intertops.avi[/ame]

Please use full screen mode to see everything clearly.

Here is the video of this happening

Action break down

Balance 963 Wager3 on pass line. Balance 960 Roll is 7. won bet. Balance 966

Balance 966 Wager 3 on pass line. balance 963. Roll and point is 5. Next roll is 8. Play is interupted to go to cashier. Play resumed. Window pops up saying past bet is enforced. Balance is at 963 still. Next roll is a 7. Wager lost. Balance is 963.

Balance 963 Wager 3 on "no pass" line. Balance is 960. Roll and the point is 6. Next roll is a 10. No effect on the wager. Play is interrupted to go to cashier. Play resumed. Wager is voided...point is eliminated and the balance is back at 963.

**rainmaker** · 6th February 2011, 11:30 PM

Well...hello

I visited your profile, and under "about me" it only said "frustrated". Maybe it would be good to take a break from online-gamling

**Kenny Lingus** · 7th February 2011, 12:37 AM

Good catch!

Doesn't suprise me though - just another way for the casino to nickle and dime you.

Or perhaps Dogboy could comment on how that has already been figured in the 95% payout.....

**mightymaron** · 7th February 2011, 02:03 AM

I have emailed Intertops about this. The wager that I caught it was a $35.00 no pass bet that just disappeared after visiting the cashier to load up some more. I bring a small amount to the table and I thought that if I saw a pattern I wanted to bet heavy on(say 8 non-field rolls in a row then bet the field) that I would just hop to the cashier to get that bet. Small amounts on the table help me defeat the tilt factor of click click click gone.

If I had to guess what happened was that someone exploited the RTG software initially by making pass bets. When it doesnt hit, just go to the cashier, come back, and the bet is void. The hole was fixed and the window pop up inserted to explain the bet was still in effect. No one would purposedly do this on a "no pass" bet because the player would have the advantage once a point is established. Only an interuption in play like player computer crash or like me going to the cashier to reload up would bring this glitch to the surface in a "no pass" situation. Company might figure not to fix it til someone complains and just enjoy the extra little advantage voiding these -EV bets for the house would bring.

Well now I have to carry a large amount on screen because im not going to the cashier again while im in play. I dont know how many bets of mine were voided but I do go to the cashier frequently to grab extra cash for speculative bets.

I will post what Intertops replies after they investigate this and what the compensation will be.

**rainmaker** · 7th February 2011, 02:30 AM

Originally Posted by mightymaron

I have emailed Intertops about this. The wager that I caught it was a $35.00 no pass bet that just disappeared after visiting the cashier to load up some more. I bring a small amount to the table and I thought that if I saw a pattern I wanted to bet heavy on(say 8 non-field rolls in a row then bet the field) that I would just hop to the cashier to get that bet. Small amounts on the table help me defeat the tilt factor of click click click gone.

If I had to guess what happened was that someone exploited the RTG software initially by making pass bets. When it doesnt hit, just go to the cashier, come back, and the bet is void. The hole was fixed and the window pop up inserted to explain the bet was still in effect. No one would purposedly do this on a "no pass" bet because the player would have the advantage once a point is established. Only an interuption in play like player computer crash or like me going to the cashier to reload up would bring this glitch to the surface in a "no pass" situation. Company might figure not to fix it til someone complains and just enjoy the extra little advantage voiding these -EV bets for the house would bring.

Well now I have to carry a large amount on screen because im not going to the cashier again while im in play. I dont know how many bets of mine were voided but I do go to the cashier frequently to grab extra cash for speculative bets.

I will post what Intertops replies after they investigate this and what the compensation will be.

I know nothing about Craps, so I have not seen your video.

Just a friendly tip for the next time you have a complain. Try to contact the casino first (CS).

If you register at Casinomeister, then you probably should contact the rep before you post a complain in the forum.

Sentence like this "I will post what Intertops replies after they investigate this and what the compensation will be" may be considered as a threat.

Anyway, good luck and I hope your case will be solved in a good way.

**mightymaron** · 7th February 2011, 05:11 PM

surprised not more comments. Oh well thanks for the forum, I will just chalk it up to the cost of gaining experience and avoid Intertops.

**Scooter7** · 7th February 2011, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by mightymaron

surprised not more comments. Oh well thanks for the forum, I will just chalk it up to the cost of gaining experience and avoid Intertops.

If you were disconnected from the game, this would be an awful resolution (i.e. having the bet canceled and the funds put back in your account).

Since you chose to leave the game, it makes sense to me that any bet that isn't a contract bet (a contract bet must be played to a resolution and can't be removed from the layout) is 'un-booked' by the house. If your intention by leaving the game was to cash out all of your funds instead of adding more, this would have been a convenience. The way you described it, it was the opposite, but (no malice intended), you should always have a big enough bankroll to make any bet that is within your normal range.

I suggest that the casino's web help pages should provide an explanation for this if they don't already have one. If they don't, a polite complaint to the casino might get someone's attention (squeaky wheel and all)

**mightymaron** · 7th February 2011, 08:08 PM

I keep a limited amount on the table to stop me from just clicking it all away if I get angry or go on tilt. I had played a while and was low enough that I didnt have enough on the table to hedge the bet. I had bet $35.00 on "no pass" and rolled a couple of times. I got a sinking feeling that the point which was 5 was going to come. I did not have 35.00 more on the table to hedge(bet 35.00 on 5 so that if a 7 comes I break even and if a 5 comes I am up slightly). I hit the cashier button to go to transfer money from the sportsbook account to casino to get that money.

I find it crooked that the rtg software will enforce a pass line bet if you go to the cashier but if you go to the cashier and only have a "no pass" bet that it will void the bet because the house has the worse of it at that moment. Other casino sites like thegreek, 5 dimes, etc..will enforce both pass or no pass bets if you click off, are disconnected, et al.

Its an additional house advantage that is not needed. The house gets enough of an advantage in the casino craps without voiding +EV bets for the player especially when the player clicks cashier to bring more money to the table.

I have the logs from Intertops on that craps session. Very detailed from the company...

**mightymaron** · 8th February 2011, 12:57 AM

Its funny...I supplied Intertops with exact details in how to re-create the glitch. I gave them a video. It is repeatable and verifible...yet they wont even tell me that they can do it. It would take 5 minutes of testing to do this. Instead they jerk me around.

Enough