Casino La Vida not paying? (Microgaming)

[kujis]

I managed to withdraw a small amount from here several weeks ago and they're still not paying. They do answer my queries from time to time but only to ask for more documents. I've already sent everything they need to verify who I am and they're all valid and up to date as requested. (CC, ID and utility bill)

The problem seems to be the utility bills as they go quiet after I send one and when I get tired of waiting, I ask them only to find out that the utility bill was outdated, even though it was less than 30 days old. They asked it to not be more than 90 days old. My first bill was older than that as I didn't notice the 3 months limit, but I quickly corrected that by getting a new one.

I've sent about 4 different bills or documents showing my address and name and they were all new. Yet they are all "too old" for them. This one time I got an answer after sending some documents saying that they now have all the needed info and my withdraw request will be sent to banking or something.

After a week of waiting I asked them how it is going, I get a reply saying I need to submit a not older than 3 months utility bill. I think they accidentally sent my first bill to banking which was older than that instead of one of the new ones or something.

Now I'm running out of utility bills so I'm beginning to think I will never see my monies :\

Any advice?

I've contacted the rep here also a while ago but seems like they don't have any need to login. Their guestbook is also filled with queries, not to mention PM box, so I would think I have to wait a while to get a reply!



Edit: Well, that was fast! Just got a email saying once again that they have all the info they need and has been sent forward, again. Let's see when they need a new utility bill though!

[WayneRedreturns]

Hi kujis,

Please PM me with your account number and I will look into this for you.

Best regards,
Wayne

[Seventh777]

Don`t tell me, but, it is in the T&C`s of their gambling license to ask for these documents, even though no proof of identity was required when depositing, yes?, utter load of bollox all this crap, i`ve withdrawn from more MG casinos than I care to mention and only needed docs once, and that was a photo copy of the credit card I used.

Why is it that, if identification authentication is such an important issue with online casinos (imagine the fiasco at a land based casino after just winning a huge amount on roulette etc and when going to cash chips in, you`re asked to produce an up to date gas bill ? lmfao), why is it only ever requested upon withdrawal issues and not on signing up or 1st deposits??????????????????????.

[vinylweatherman]

Don`t tell me, but, it is in the T&C`s of their gambling license to ask for these documents, even though no proof of identity was required when depositing, yes?, utter load of bollox all this crap, i`ve withdrawn from more MG casinos than I care to mention and only needed docs once, and that was a photo copy of the credit card I used.

Why is it that, if identification authentication is such an important issue with online casinos (imagine the fiasco at a land based casino after just winning a huge amount on roulette etc and when going to cash chips in, you`re asked to produce an up to date gas bill ? lmfao), why is it only ever requested upon withdrawal issues and not on signing up or 1st deposits??????????????????????.

It's not just this, the OP has sent in one bill after another, and they are finding one EXCUSE after another as to why it is "no good".

There is not an INFINITE supply of utility bills, and often the requirements of the casinos do NOT match what is available as routine in the "real world". UK energy companies have moved to SIX monthly routine billing, so the requirements are only possible to meet for HALF of every year. WTF do La Vida expect UK players to do for the other half, or are we all "frauds" for 6 months in each year.

The only solution is to play ONLY when our utility bill is "live", and then QUIT playing for about 3 months until the NEXT bill arrives for the following cycle.

The ONLY way to go back to 3 monthly billing now is to switch over to what they call "eBilling". Rather than POST the bill, they provide it as a PDF downloadable document, but the layout is EXACTLY what they would have posted to you. They also offer significant discounts for opting for eBilling. I have gained an 18% discount on top of all the other discounts I already get. It's quite a saving.

This is all down to "international laws", the same "excuse" casinos give for ever increasing documentation requirements. eBilling is down to "envirinmental" agreements, drawn up at global conferences where countries agree to meet certain targets. "use less paper" is one such target, since it means less trees are cut down, and thus more CO2 can be absorbed. Casinos seem to be saying "use MORE paper", because they simply do NOT allow for players who use such ebilling services extensively.

Some companies are now "fining" customers who resist the pressure to move to ebilling, and levy what they call a monthy "paper bill charge". The level of this charge is being ratcheted up in order to force people to accept ebilling. My ISP levies a "fine" of £1.25 per month in order for me to be able to prove my ID at online casinos. My landline provider now charges £1.45 for the same service.

I still get a "free" bill from the council and for water, but this is only in April, and would enable me to prove my ID online until the end of June.

I can get more free bills from the council simply by failing to pay my monthly council tax on time. They send a "red letter" demand that I can use to prove my ID as it looks much like the original bill, except that it is printed in red.

UK players can get this "free" paper bill simply by delaying payment of their council tax one month when they are asked to send one in. It will be interesting in years to come when MORE players have to resort to this kind of tactic to "trick" companies into providing paper bills suitable for online verification. It may reach the stage where a formal "enquiry" is launched into the causes, and it will expose the direct conflict between government policies based on "use less paper" and the policies of online companies who insist on so much REPEAT paperwork.

This is VERY relevant for the UK, since online gambling has become increasingly popular, and the full legalisation has granted it much greater exposure and social acceptance than it had before.

There is already a different conflict between the insistence of casinos of seeing photo ID, and the reluctance of the UK government to actually ISSUE one designed as a stand-alone ID card. NO UK player is ACTUALLY giving casinos their "ID card", because the UK does not have one. What UK players are doing is using OTHER documents that have been designed for other, specific, purposes as a stand in for an ID card. Whilst these other documents meet the standards for an ID card, the drawback is that they are NOT universally available to everybody, as would be the case with a standard national ID card.

If you have not passed a UK driving test, it is ILLEGAL to have a UK photo "ID card" in the form of a driving license, although it is pretty easy to GET one

The industry does not seem prepared to address this issue, and simply hides behind the excuse of "we don't make the rules about this", and relying on the fact that this policy has yet to be challenged in court, or indeed be addressed by a government as an issue of "national importance". This could change as online gambling becomes more popular, and casinos STILL continue to use an outdated and sometimes INSECURE means to verify SIGNIFICANT QUANTITIES of sensitive player data. If something major goes wrong, the government will be very quick to blame the industry, even though the government itself created some of the legal contradictions that created some of these issues.

Other industries HAVE been lax with our data, and many have been FOUND OUT, and the regulators are now starting to get tough with lax handling of data. The UK government have even stripped the Royal Mail of the right to handle passports through the post BECAUSE of REPEATED breaches of security caused by lax and lazy management. I am sure that if the UK government had a real idea of the number of passport COLOUR copies that are simply sent around the world by standard email for "ID verification" they would be VERY worried, and would be trying to put a stop to it through the law. Currently, they only "offer advice" about safeguarding passports, but ONE piece of advice states that what online casinos are doing as "routine" could actually be ILLEGAL under UK law - even though no-one in the online industry has ever been in trouble for demanding a passport JPEG to "go on file". If something DOES get traced back to this practice, the government will be in trouble because it "should have known" this was happening, and should have done something about it earlier. The government may then resort to a completely inappropriate "knee-jerk" response to the scandal to save it's own skin, and "screw the industries" who would have little input, but could be seriously impacted by any changes.

[Seventh777]

It's not just this, the OP has sent in one bill after another, and they are finding one EXCUSE after another as to why it is "no good".

There is not an INFINITE supply of utility bills, and often the requirements of the casinos do NOT match what is available as routine in the "real world". UK energy companies have moved to SIX monthly routine billing, so the requirements are only possible to meet for HALF of every year. WTF do La Vida expect UK players to do for the other half, or are we all "frauds" for 6 months in each year.

The only solution is to play ONLY when our utility bill is "live", and then QUIT playing for about 3 months until the NEXT bill arrives for the following cycle.

The ONLY way to go back to 3 monthly billing now is to switch over to what they call "eBilling". Rather than POST the bill, they provide it as a PDF downloadable document, but the layout is EXACTLY what they would have posted to you. They also offer significant discounts for opting for eBilling. I have gained an 18% discount on top of all the other discounts I already get. It's quite a saving.

This is all down to "international laws", the same "excuse" casinos give for ever increasing documentation requirements. eBilling is down to "envirinmental" agreements, drawn up at global conferences where countries agree to meet certain targets. "use less paper" is one such target, since it means less trees are cut down, and thus more CO2 can be absorbed. Casinos seem to be saying "use MORE paper", because they simply do NOT allow for players who use such ebilling services extensively.

Some companies are now "fining" customers who resist the pressure to move to ebilling, and levy what they call a monthy "paper bill charge". The level of this charge is being ratcheted up in order to force people to accept ebilling. My ISP levies a "fine" of £1.25 per month in order for me to be able to prove my ID at online casinos. My landline provider now charges £1.45 for the same service.

I still get a "free" bill from the council and for water, but this is only in April, and would enable me to prove my ID online until the end of June.

I can get more free bills from the council simply by failing to pay my monthly council tax on time. They send a "red letter" demand that I can use to prove my ID as it looks much like the original bill, except that it is printed in red.

UK players can get this "free" paper bill simply by delaying payment of their council tax one month when they are asked to send one in. It will be interesting in years to come when MORE players have to resort to this kind of tactic to "trick" companies into providing paper bills suitable for online verification. It may reach the stage where a formal "enquiry" is launched into the causes, and it will expose the direct conflict between government policies based on "use less paper" and the policies of online companies who insist on so much REPEAT paperwork.

This is VERY relevant for the UK, since online gambling has become increasingly popular, and the full legalisation has granted it much greater exposure and social acceptance than it had before.

There is already a different conflict between the insistence of casinos of seeing photo ID, and the reluctance of the UK government to actually ISSUE one designed as a stand-alone ID card. NO UK player is ACTUALLY giving casinos their "ID card", because the UK does not have one. What UK players are doing is using OTHER documents that have been designed for other, specific, purposes as a stand in for an ID card. Whilst these other documents meet the standards for an ID card, the drawback is that they are NOT universally available to everybody, as would be the case with a standard national ID card.

If you have not passed a UK driving test, it is ILLEGAL to have a UK photo "ID card" in the form of a driving license, although it is pretty easy to GET one

The industry does not seem prepared to address this issue, and simply hides behind the excuse of "we don't make the rules about this", and relying on the fact that this policy has yet to be challenged in court, or indeed be addressed by a government as an issue of "national importance". This could change as online gambling becomes more popular, and casinos STILL continue to use an outdated and sometimes INSECURE means to verify SIGNIFICANT QUANTITIES of sensitive player data. If something major goes wrong, the government will be very quick to blame the industry, even though the government itself created some of the legal contradictions that created some of these issues.

Other industries HAVE been lax with our data, and many have been FOUND OUT, and the regulators are now starting to get tough with lax handling of data. The UK government have even stripped the Royal Mail of the right to handle passports through the post BECAUSE of REPEATED breaches of security caused by lax and lazy management. I am sure that if the UK government had a real idea of the number of passport COLOUR copies that are simply sent around the world by standard email for "ID verification" they would be VERY worried, and would be trying to put a stop to it through the law. Currently, they only "offer advice" about safeguarding passports, but ONE piece of advice states that what online casinos are doing as "routine" could actually be ILLEGAL under UK law - even though no-one in the online industry has ever been in trouble for demanding a passport JPEG to "go on file". If something DOES get traced back to this practice, the government will be in trouble because it "should have known" this was happening, and should have done something about it earlier. The government may then resort to a completely inappropriate "knee-jerk" response to the scandal to save it's own skin, and "screw the industries" who would have little input, but could be seriously impacted by any changes.

Excellent reply VM , ofc all this fiasco that is the docs required bullcrap can or should be easily remedified via your deposit method, if for argument sake you use an e-wallet like Neteller or Moneybookers and have extended accounts with them, then it is basic knowledge that stringent identity authentication has already been undertaken, my Neteller account for example has a maximum cash capacity of £36,000, so some sort of liaison here between the casino and Neteller, resulting in a new tab in the casino banking lobby labelled `This depositor is 100% kosher as we have thoroughly checked his identity status`. Right that`s e-wallets sorted out, now for cards......

Any deposit using debit/credit cards will be subject to Verified by Visa type scrutiny and an identity code needed to secure the deposit, this ofc is a security detail set up personally by the cardholder and their respective card issuer.

It is beyond annoying and somewhat hovering on the borderline of being accused of criminal acts, suspicions of identity theft and fraudulent use of credit cards spring to mind and only rear their ugly heads when it`s withdrawal time, one of their biggest excuses for this rigmarole is proof of age, now correct me if i`m wrong here but surely the crime has already been committed if the under age gambler has now reached withdrawal stages?.

How many times do we purchase stuff online using any of the paying methods we use at casinos, and are subjected to the same protocols?.

I rest my case.

[P.V.]

It's not just this, the OP has sent in one bill after another, and they are finding one EXCUSE after another as to why it is "no good".

Agreed! There needs to be an industry standard for what's accepted and what's secure during the process.

[WayneRedreturns]

Hi Guys,

Just wanted to update this thread. The OP's documents have been processed and the withdrawal has been paid.

Best regards,
Wayne

[vinylweatherman]

Excellent reply VM , ofc all this fiasco that is the docs required bullcrap can or should be easily remedified via your deposit method, if for argument sake you use an e-wallet like Neteller or Moneybookers and have extended accounts with them, then it is basic knowledge that stringent identity authentication has already been undertaken, my Neteller account for example has a maximum cash capacity of £36,000, so some sort of liaison here between the casino and Neteller, resulting in a new tab in the casino banking lobby labelled `This depositor is 100% kosher as we have thoroughly checked his identity status`. Right that`s e-wallets sorted out, now for cards......

Any deposit using debit/credit cards will be subject to Verified by Visa type scrutiny and an identity code needed to secure the deposit, this ofc is a security detail set up personally by the cardholder and their respective card issuer.

It is beyond annoying and somewhat hovering on the borderline of being accused of criminal acts, suspicions of identity theft and fraudulent use of credit cards spring to mind and only rear their ugly heads when it`s withdrawal time, one of their biggest excuses for this rigmarole is proof of age, now correct me if i`m wrong here but surely the crime has already been committed if the under age gambler has now reached withdrawal stages?.

How many times do we purchase stuff online using any of the paying methods we use at casinos, and are subjected to the same protocols?.

I rest my case.

The vast majority of online casinos "can't be arsed" to implement this extra security step. MY cards are now part of this scheme, and I have set up "verified by VISA" on the one I use, but I am almost NEVER taken through this procedure when depositing online. ONLY at 32Red am I required to submit to "Verified by VISA" before my deposit is allowed through. At present, this scheme is VOLUNTARY, and merchants are not required to take part, HOWEVER, the carde companies will hold MERCHANTS responsible for any fraud that takes place, and are far more likely to decide a "chargeback" in favour of the customer if the merchant failed to implement this additional step. With the step in place, it is much harder for the cardholder to claim they didn't make the transaction themselves.
Many chargebacks in this industry are down to players "trying it on", because they see this as an exploitable weakness in the system to enable them to play without risk.

Hi Guys,

Just wanted to update this thread. The OP's documents have been processed and the withdrawal has been paid.

Best regards,
Wayne

This is good, BUT it does not explain why the OP went through all that trouble for what should have been a straight forward procedure once he had submitted a recent utility bill.


What do casinos expect players to do when they do NOT get billed as frequently as 2-3 months, something that is becoming common in the UK energy sector. These players have no LEGITIMATE means to supply what is wanted, so have to resort to "creative means" in order to get what the casino wants. Innocent players are NOT equipped for this, BUT in their search for a solution, they will receive the kind of "education" that the casinos would rather they didn't have, most likely from searching the internet for solutions. Many of these solutions are designed to enable player fraud, and appear in the less reputable forums. Fraudsters have little trouble getting hold of the required "utility bill" once they have achieved the harder task of getting their fake ID past casino security.

What can a utility bill achieve that CANNOT be achieved by the CASINO sending some kind of address verification letter & code to the player by post?

Even when players DO have paper utility bills, it is MORE likely than not to be in the name of another member of the household. Utility companies require ONE person to be named on the bill, who is held responsible for the entire household. This is normally the financial head of the household. A standard household for a "couple" STILL has a 50% chance that the utility bill is in the name of the player's PARTNER. Add one other adult member, and you have the situation where it is MORE likely than not that the utility bill is NOT in the player's name.

Verification for a Neteller extended account is MORE thorough than the verification that casinos undertake, yet casinos simply DO NOT TRUST NETELLER, and insist on duplicating the verification themselves. Neteller don't just require documents, they require a valid bank account to be connected to the Neteller account, which has to be the customer's bank account, not someone else's. Without this, a limited account ONLY is allowed, and withdrawals are ONLY paid by cheque posted to the address registered. Limited accounts also do NOT allow Peer to Peer money transfers.

[kujis]

Yes, I got the message saying it's now finalized. A bit of a rumble but I think it was partially my fault because the first utility bill was a bit old and if they mixed it up with one of the newer ones.

Thanks

I still do not understand why some casinos take so much precautions before accepting a withdraw either. Most casinos don't ask for anything and have super fast payments because of that. I like those the most!

[vinylweatherman]

Yes, I got the message saying it's now finalized. A bit of a rumble but I think it was partially my fault because the first utility bill was a bit old and if they mixed it up with one of the newer ones.

Thanks

I still do not understand why some casinos take so much precautions before accepting a withdraw either. Most casinos don't ask for anything and have super fast payments because of that. I like those the most!

This may have been the case in the past, but now it is the NORM for a casino to at least request the basics of ID & proof of address (the utility bill).

The procedures are ever tightening, and yesterday I got my FIRST EVER request for "a photo of you holding your ID". This was not a new account either, but a long standing one. It was more a re-verification, perhaps because I had not played for quite some while after a change in ownership, and recently reinstalled it & started playing again.

I'm not going to bitch & moan, because after all, this was my idea a while back as an alternative to the other popular option of asking players to "get your ID notarised", which caused far more problems.

Although the casino later relented, accepting my standard documents and the fact that I have been with them for some time, I pursued the production of a photo of me holding my ID to see how easy (or not) this is in practice.

I have found it is NOT as easy as I thought, because although I can take the photo, the resulting image is NOT good enough to read the print on the ID when photographed in this manner. Taking a photo good enough to read the print on a document is completely different to taking a photo of a person who happens to be holding something. The average camera user who uses a "point & shoot" camera for holiday snaps is going to have problems setting up this kind of shot such that the print on the ID can be read as though it had been scanned to a JPEG (or photographed in close-up).

This does, however, prove that my prediction that this type of request would eventually become routine is starting to come true, and that a photo of oneself holding one's ID should be added to the standard set of documents that ALL experienced players should have ready to go at a moment's notice.

Those worried about data security could house these on removable media, since they are not going to be needed that often (unless one is a bonus whore ).