3Dice Casino - Confiscation of 40 Euro for playing too little

[Markus]

Hello all,

on last Saturday I have deposit 250 Euro in 3Dice Casino. I didn't received any bonus. I have played a slot machine with 1 Cent per spin. I have made around 100 spins and was a quite disappointed about the result. Then I have decided to withdraw my balance of 249.38 Euro. There was no problem with that withdrawal.

Then two days later I have made a deposit of 500 Euro in 3Dice Casino, again with no bonus. This time I tried another slot machine with again around 100 1-cent spins. The result was also very poor and again I decided not to play more and requested a withdrawal.

Later I have got this email from 3Dice:

Dear Markus,

We have noticed that your current withdraw request for 499.21€ has occurred
shortly after your deposit and after hardly any play.I would like to know if
there is a reason for this.

I am sure you understand that depositing and withdrawing without any play
brings unwanted transaction costs.

I am afraid we will not be able to process this transaction at this time
unless you play at least a bit more .You could have some fun and win and that
is the reason you have deposited here with us I hope.In this case we would be
happy to accommodate your request as soon as possible.

Looking forward to hear from you.

Kind regards,
Anna

Your Ticket-Team
(request handled by Anna)

I have answered this:

Hello,

please proceed with my withdrawal.


Regards

Then I have got this response:

Hello Markus,

Your withdrawal will be processed as soon as possible, minus the transaction
fee for €40 we paid for your 500€ deposit.Thank you for your understanding and
have a good day!

Kind regards,
Anna

My response on that was:

Hello,

I don't accept this! On which basis are you charging me with 40 Euro? I
didn't found anything in your T&C that says, that if the player haven't
rolled over his deposit at least n-times the player may be charged with
40 Euro.

I expect that you pay me in full!


Regards

Till now I didn't got any response to my last mail. I have written a message to the user 3Dice at this forum:

Hello,

according to forum rule 2.2 I contact you before posting a complaint against 3Dice Casino.

3Dice Casino is going to confiscate 40 Euro of my money with the justification I haven't played enough. This arbitrary act is not backed by your Terms & Conditions. For this reason I demand that you pay me in full! Feel free to close my account after you paid me I will not play again in you casino anyway.
My AccountNr is: ********


Regards

He responded with this:

Markus,

Quoting from our T&C :

In compliance with terms and applicable law, when your account is closed or terminated, you will be entitled to the returnable funds in that account, less deduction of eventual processing fees.3DICE.COM reserves the right to refuse or cancel your registration and/or account for any reason whatsoever at any time without notice to you. Any balance in the account at the time of such cancellation will be credited to your credit card or other financial instrument,and/or sent to you by check to your registered address.Notwithstanding the aforementioned and without limiting other remedies 3DICE.COM reserves the right to void any winnings and to withhold any balance in your account where 3DICE.COM determines that you have breached any of these terms,where suspicion of evidence of manipulation of 3DICE.COM financial system or of your or another customer’s account arises, if 3DICE.COM has grounds to believe that you are using the site for purposes other than those for which it was intended,committing any offense, or if your actions may cause legal liability for you, other users or for 3DICE.COM.

You have deposited first 250 (to withdraw 249) - we did not stop you on that one, then 500 (withdrawing 499) with a total stake generated of less than $2. This is clearly abuse of the 3Dice financial system and trying to make 3Dice pay for the credit card costs you have when depositing directly into moneybookers. 3Dice is not a money moving facility and using it as such is deemed abuse. Abuse of our financial system is clearly specified in our T&C and this is a schoolbook example. Mind you that we are not even charging you the full cost of the transaction. You have via email clearly been told that you have to either accept the cost of these transactions (after which your account will indeed be suspended) - or generate at least a minimum amount of play.

I'm forwarding the message to Bryan and you should realize that casinomeister is not a tool to help you enforce your abuse.

Regards,

Enzo

I would have discussed this with 3Dice in privacy, but because he have already forwarded this message to Casinomeister I have decided to answer him in public.

You have deposited first 250 (to withdraw 249) - we did not stop you on that one

Why not? If you would have told me then that although you are going to process my withdrawal in full you however wish that for the future I wager more before I request a withdrawal, I would have accepted it.

This is clearly abuse of the 3Dice financial system and trying to make 3Dice pay for the credit card costs you have when depositing directly into moneybookers. 3Dice is not a money moving facility and using it as such is deemed abuse.

1. I can make credit card deposits over the Moneybookers Gateway at almost any casino for free. I don't need a positive balance at Moneybookers.
2. Even if I can't do it I can still use Sofortüberweisung to make an instant and free deposit into my Moneybookers account.
3. Even if I don't want to use Sofortüberweisung I can make a bank transfer to my Moneybookers account for free which takes the same time like as deposit and withdraw money at your casino (1-2 days).
There is absolutely no reason for me to use your casino as "money moving facility" whatsoever!

Abuse of our financial system is clearly specified in our T&C and this is a schoolbook example.

It's not "clearly specified"! How should I know what do you define as abusive and what not? Must I guess? This is a clearly specified rule from Canbet Casino:

In instances where the Casino has absorbed banking fees related to a Players transaction, and the full deposit amount has not been turned over (bet through) at least once (x1), the Casino shall reserve the right to charge the player the full banking fee cost incurred by the Casino, or at least 3% of the deposit amount, whichever is the greater.

Why do you can not add such a rule to your T&C?

You have via email clearly been told that you have to either accept the cost of these transactions (after which your account will indeed be suspended) - or generate at least a minimum amount of play.

This is not true! If I had known that I will be charged with 40 Euro I would have chosen to roll over the 500 Euro one time in BlackJack this would be much, much cheaper for me (even this still wouldn't be right, because no rule in your T&C forces me to do so).

[anniemac]

OK, I'll play devil's advocate. 3Dice is within their right to request that you play a reasonable amount. I have done the same thing there. I deposited xamount, played and wasn't doing to good, got it back up to what I deposited and cashed out. But the difference is that I played for some time and at least half of my original deposit. What if all or half of the depositing players deposit and then withdraw? Would cost the casinos money with no chance of catching up.

And with the money laundering laws, they have to cover their a&&.

[Casinomeister]

Most casinos require you to play your deposit through x amount of times. I don't think you'll find any that will allow you to make a deposit and then withdraw. There is the money laundering aspect of this plus the fees they have to suck up when processing payments.

[refre]

Why would you make a deposit of €250 and €500 and do 1 cent spins?
If you wanted to see if the slot was "hot" before high rolling you could have made €10 deposits.
I usually don't comment on how people want to play, but come on, somethings not right here.

Freddy

[Markus]

OK, I'll play devil's advocate. 3Dice is within their right to request that you play a reasonable amount. I have done the same thing there. I deposited xamount, played and wasn't doing to good, got it back up to what I deposited and cashed out. But the difference is that I played for some time and at least half of my original deposit. What if all or half of the depositing players deposit and then withdraw? Would cost the casinos money with no chance of catching up.

Most casinos require you to play your deposit through x amount of times. I don't think you'll find any that will allow you to make a deposit and then withdraw. There is the money laundering aspect of this plus the fees they have to suck up when processing payments.

If they don't want that behavior then they have to add a rule that forbids this behavior. Where is the objective criterion to determine what is enough play and what is not?

[Markus]

Why would you make a deposit of €250 and €500 and do 1 cent spins?
If you wanted to see if the slot was "hot" before high rolling you could have made €10 deposits.
I usually don't comment on how people want to play, but come on, somethings not right here.
Freddy

Yes I should have done this, but I didn't expected that all of the slot machines at 3Dice are so bad paying.

[anniemac]

I don't know what amount a casino would use but as a personal reference, I use half of my deposit played before asking for a withdrawal. But that's just me. Maybe you should have asked Anna how much you needed to play before a withdrawal. Who knows, you might get lucky.

[Markus]

money laundering aspect

How could it be money laundering? I have deposit from my Moneybookers account and I have requested a withdraw back to the same Moneybookers account.

[kmay87]

How could it be money laundering? I have deposit from my Moneybookers account and I have requested a withdraw back to the same Moneybookers account.

If there was a phony credit card attached to the account, extracting money from it and resending to a different card wouldn't be all that hard, and a logical assumption someone could come to.

[Markus]

If there was a phony credit card attached to the account, extracting money from it and resending to a different card wouldn't be all that hard, and a logical assumption someone could come to.

Why should I use a casino for that? I can make credit card deposits at Moneybookers directly and without a casino.