Red Flush holds extra $$ ???

[classymom]

This is happening all the time w/ Netspend - I have 2 cards so when they double dip my one card I use the other. Its a pain the a$$ - I noticed now that Rival casino charges are now listed as casino so its obvious where the money is going. I think if you are going to deposit more than 100.00 to use a wallet- having money pending for a month is very frustrating mad:

[anniemac]

VWM, believe me, I did bitch and bitch and bitch. Was told there was nothing I could do and I did trash the card. But as a US citizen, there is only so many options we have for depositing. So now I fund my QT account and go from there. They can't hold it because it is used for othere things, I guess. Not all casinos are flagged. Some work just fine. Depends on their processors.

All we ever get from the powers that be are "Gambling is illegal" BS and there you go.

[wanda5]

VWM, believe me, I did bitch and bitch and bitch. Was told there was nothing I could do and I did trash the card. But as a US citizen, there is only so many options we have for depositing. So now I fund my QT account and go from there. They can't hold it because it is used for othere things, I guess. Not all casinos are flagged. Some work just fine. Depends on their processors.

All we ever get from the powers that be are "Gambling is illegal" BS and there you go.

Yes grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr & it SUX being at their mercy!!

[mercy]

Yes grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr & it SUX being at their mercy!!

I take offense to that

[linda7]

Hi everyone,

I play constantly at Red Flush, and the processing company that keeps doing the duplicate charges is called "Callo". They constantly take duplicate charges from my netspend card. Just the other day, I went to deposit and it came up declined. I knew I had money on Netspend, so I went to verify how much and I saw I was in the minus column for over $350.00! How can you overcharge with a debit card? So, I called netspend as usual, and they advised me that Callo did it again. Let me explain how it is done....when we make a purchase at a casino, the processing company is given an authorization number from the credit/debit card company. Callo, puts through the transaction for payment Without the authorization number, this is called a "forced post", they get paid, then they put through the same transaction using the authorization code. Pretty sweet huh? Luckily, netspend is on the watch for them with my accounts. However, it still ties up my money and this frustrates me to no end. As it stands, I am waiting for almost $2000 to be released. Yesterday, I told Red Flush when you can find a decent processor give me a buzz and I will come back to play. Until then, RF is not considered an accredited casino in my eyes.

Have a good day everyone.

[vinylweatherman]

Hi everyone,

I play constantly at Red Flush, and the processing company that keeps doing the duplicate charges is called "Callo". They constantly take duplicate charges from my netspend card. Just the other day, I went to deposit and it came up declined. I knew I had money on Netspend, so I went to verify how much and I saw I was in the minus column for over $350.00! How can you overcharge with a debit card? So, I called netspend as usual, and they advised me that Callo did it again. Let me explain how it is done....when we make a purchase at a casino, the processing company is given an authorization number from the credit/debit card company. Callo, puts through the transaction for payment Without the authorization number, this is called a "forced post", they get paid, then they put through the same transaction using the authorization code. Pretty sweet huh? Luckily, netspend is on the watch for them with my accounts. However, it still ties up my money and this frustrates me to no end. As it stands, I am waiting for almost $2000 to be released. Yesterday, I told Red Flush when you can find a decent processor give me a buzz and I will come back to play. Until then, RF is not considered an accredited casino in my eyes.

Have a good day everyone.

This seems to show that Callo are comitting some kind of fraud by deliberately using a "forced post", knowing full well that they can duplicate the transaction with the authorisation code. Netspend are also negligent in allowing this "forced post" method to actually work - surely, in the interests of the consumer it should NOT. Processors should be told by card companies that transactions will ONLY go through WITH the authorisation number.
If Netspend have to watch for this, it implies there is a possible loophole in the system that might, under some circumstances, allow them to get away with receiving a duplicate transaction.
Previously, it seems the argument has been that this is simply down to how the system works, the transaction being requested, money ringfenced, and then getting put through properly later, with the double charge simply being an artifact of the system.

This kind of thing does the casinos no favours at all, and they should ensure that players are NOT put at undue risk, and keep a close eye on the processors. They may have to pick from a rather dodgy lot, but there should be limits. When things go wrong with casino processors, it is the casinos themselves that receive a thorough bashing, not the processors who can hide behind the scenes.

If this kind of thing happened here in the UK on a routine basis, the FSA would be all over the banks demanding an explanation and an end to it.

[spearmaster]

This seems to show that Callo are comitting some kind of fraud by deliberately using a "forced post", knowing full well that they can duplicate the transaction with the authorisation code.

Rephrase, please, without the words "fraud", "deliberately", "knowing full well" which you have zero proof of.

[vinylweatherman]

Rephrase, please, without the words "fraud", "deliberately", "knowing full well" which you have zero proof of.

I did say this SEEMS to show, and not "this shows".

Surely, if Netspend are having to keep watch for this, it is certainly not normal procedure for their card transactions.

In the more general case, there was an article referenced in another thread that discussed that casinos ARE indeed being forced into bed with processors that do indeed attempt to help themselves to extra money.

I have debit cards and credit cards, and what is being explained here is most certainly NOT "routine". If this were down to genuine errors, there would be occasional transactions that appeared duplicated, but these would be sorted out with little fuss. Here, it seems that EVERY transaction this player made through this processor was being duplicated. They were given an explanation from Netspend of exactly how this was being achieved, and surely this is either incredible incompetence, or the processors system is set up to request the transaction twice, once without the authorisation code, and once with. While players are being told the duplicates will simply "drop off" after a while, there is no obvious need for them in the first case, and surely an up front legitimate processor would not be doing this.
The players here are in a very vulnerable position, they cannot complain to their regulators, since this would mean disclosing more about the transaction, the casinos can't really put much pressure on the processors, since there may be no alternative.

Casinos do not SEEM to have definitive proof when they accuse PLAYERS of doing something wrong, rather, they seem to go on a "balance of probabilities" approach, determining that with a certain number of "indicators" present, "proof" can be said to exist that the player comitted the offence, being it breach of contract, such as playing excluded games, or fraud (usually using fake ID) The number of times that escalated complaints go in favour of players seems to indicate that a significant number of innocents get found guilty on this basis.
Surely, if casinos can brand a player as "definitely" a multiple account registerer, member of a fraud ring, etc on what is simply "the balance of probabilities" rather than near rock solid proof, they should not take offence when they too, or their agents, are said to be "guilty" of some activity or other based on a "balance of probabilities" analysis of known circumstances, rather than the solid proof that would be required to uphold a case at the level of a criminal court.

For balance, is there a perfectly innocent alternative explanation for a processor doing what has been described above as part of normal operating procedure?

[spearmaster]

I did say this SEEMS to show, and not "this shows".

Awfully obscure and weak compared to the three words/phrases you used elsewhere in the sentence. I don't agree that "seems" is an acceptable excuse for flouting the rules.

I have debit cards and credit cards, and what is being explained here is most certainly NOT "routine".

Are you a merchant? Do you have any idea how transactions are posted? Have you never had a pre-authorization lock up funds on your card, and then later you discover that the actual transaction got a different authorization number, thus forcing the other authorization to lock your funds for a few days?

While I'm not saying that a forced post is routine, it isn't necessarily out of the ordinary either. Shit happens. Networks go down. Systems need downtime to update sometimes.

While players are being told the duplicates will simply "drop off" after a while, there is no obvious need for them in the first case, and surely an up front legitimate processor would not be doing this.

While I am not a fan of duplicate transactions, they DO happen for various reasons - as long as I am credited in a reasonable amount of time, there really isn't much that can be done. It has nothing to do with being upfront or legitimate.

Casinos do not SEEM to have definitive proof when they accuse PLAYERS of doing something wrong, rather, they seem to go on a "balance of probabilities" approach, determining that with a certain number of "indicators" present, "proof" can be said to exist that the player comitted the offence, being it breach of contract, such as playing excluded games, or fraud (usually using fake ID) The number of times that escalated complaints go in favour of players seems to indicate that a significant number of innocents get found guilty on this basis.

And how is this relevant to the discussion at hand?

For balance, is there a perfectly innocent alternative explanation for a processor doing what has been described above as part of normal operating procedure?

Try Googling "credit card forced post". In fact, try Googling any of the things you frequently blow out of proportion.

You are one of the more senior members here - as such I would expect you to set a decent example for others. By the same token, you've been cut a lot of slack. However, this cannot continue - your posts and opinions are always welcome but for the final time, do not make claims, or insinuations, of anything without REASONABLE evidence - I'm not expecting everyone to hold to the standard defined in the following forum rule, but I still expect to see reasonable assumptions, or else a very clearly stated case that indicates that it is your OPINION - "seems" does not meet that minimal standard.

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Reprinted from
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