VCCasino.com Deliberately Deceiving Site Users

[FourTeller]

While relatively new to the online casino scene, I've been playing internet poker for a couple of years and know enough by now to do my homework before registering and depositing into a new gaming account. This has become even more important since the UIGEA was passed and caused so much upheaval that negatively affected many customers - mostly Americans but also, to a lesser extent, those of us north of the border who are now deprived of Neteller as a convenient means of funding.

Probably the most important source of information about any casino is its official site. Prospective and current customers rely on the practical information provided there about its games, products and services to be as accurate and truthful as possible, at least when it was originally posted. Should circumstances change or any of the facts not apply to a given situation, the website should be updated appropriately as soon as possible. At least, that is what I would expect from any reputable business, which is what I thought Victor Chandler was.

Last week I registered at VCCasino.com based on a number of factors i.e. a well known and established brand, variety of games, solid software platform, generous signup bonus and available payment methods. The last couple of criteria were particularly crucial: According to the T&Cs, there is a time limit for claiming the welcome promo from when a customer signs up and so I specifically waited till I had enough funds in my preferred ewallet before doing so. My mistake was relying on the information provided on the casino's banking 'help' page:





Note - in addition to the questionable claim of having "the best banking service of any online casino operator" - that Click2Pay and EcoCard are both listed as alternative payment methods and their logos are also included in the small flashy graphic at the bottom of all the VC Casino webpages, indicating that they are accepted funding services. This is however not the case at the other gaming division sites i.e. sportsbook, poker etc. which are apparently operated separately and have separate cashiers. EcoCard does show up on VCBet but nowhere else, while Click2Pay is never mentioned at all outside the casino site specifically.

Back to my experience as a new customer relying on details provided voluntarily by the company itself. Imagine my confusion and puzzlement, then, upon signing into VC Casino for the first time and entering the online banking section only to find that Neteller was the only ewallet option available After clicking around for a while and looking in vain, it soon became clear that neither Click2Pay nor EcoCard were actually offered or were in fact very cleverly hidden So I sent an email just to be certain and, within a short period of time (to VC's credit) got a reply confirming my worst fears.

In the interests of brevity and caution (as there is some legalese at the bottom of VC's emails that potentially prohibits reposting them publicly), I'll summarize and occasionally quote from the written exchange that resulted. The initial reply I got stated that while Click2pay and EcoCard are not offered in the casino, "these methods of payment are listed on our site as they are used on the sports betting side of the business." Now I let the matter slide for a couple days and was actually very close to either trying out other funding options or giving up on the casino altogether, at least in the near future.

Over the weekend, however, I decided to check out the assertion about the two alternative methods being available elsewhere on VC, a fact that I found to be essentially false as I had already suspected since I had already tried signing into the sportsbook to see if there was any way to transfer funds from there to the casino (none that I could see) as most other gaming sites allow and had only seen EcoCard there. So I sent a somewhat terse second message disputing what I had been told initially and asking that VC Casino update any pages that contained misleading details to avoid a similar situation arising in future with other users.

At this stage I thought that maybe the support staff were just slightly clueless and under the mistaken assumption that customers were being given identical banking information across all the company sites. Despite this, I still expected an admission that the information about Click2pay and EcoCard given on their website is wrong, or at least a promise (however false) to check it out or forward the matter to a manager, webmaster etc. The email I got back seemed to confirm, at least partially, my suspicion about VC customer support's (lack of) knowledge concerning their website. However, there was no acknowledgement whatsoever of any changes or edits being forthcoming.

Click2Pay, I was helpfully informed, is available to Chinese (only?) casino customers while EcoCard can be used (presumably most/all) in the sportsbook. My request to correct the online banking info apparently did not merit any consideration at all, just this: "I apologise if you feel misinformed but as advised the web site is for players from all countries." Admittedly, my next email expressed some of my strong exasperation and irritation at VC's refusal to even admit that there is anything wrong with advertising certain payment services that are in fact not available to the majority of customers, let alone rectify the situation. (My messages were never abusive or downright nasty, only annoyed and slightly sarcastic at times.)

Seriously, how difficult is it to add a "China only" disclaimer next to the Click2Pay option on the casino banking help page and eliminate any reference to EcoCard entirely? The fact that VC Casino - or their CS ayway - won't even consider the notion just totally boggles my mind. In my disgust, I wrote that I was having serious second thoughts about actually being a real money customer there - based not only on this but also the experience of players at their poker site who felt misled about certain promos - and that I didn't require a further response from them. As far as I was concerned, that was the last time I would bother trying to make my case directly to VC.

Earlier this week, I relented a bit and decided to try one last ditch attempt to contact someone higher up who might take the matter more seriously. The closest I could find to a casino manager was some marketing person, though, so I sent another email expressing my dissatisfaction with both the misleading webpage and support's (lack of) response, in addition to reiterating my reluctance to deposit money (through some other cumbersome, pricy method) at a site that willfully deceives customers. At the last minute I CCed the message to VC CS as well but have yet to receive any response from either.

To sum up, I am making a complaint about a site that I currently don't have a single cent in and probably never will if the status quo remains. Compared to most of the other (usually financial) disputes posted here, this one may rank as pretty low or even insignificant. At this point, it's more a matter of principle than anything else - after all, if a supposedly 'reputable' casino like Victor Chandler won't even tackle a simple matter like this one, how much can be expected when dealing with a more 'shady' site operator over a much bigger problem?

[suzecat]

It may be a fulltime job for anyone to update available deposit/withdrawal options in the face of these uncertain and changing gaming times. What worked yesterday may not be available today.

[winbig]

Originally Posted by suzecat

It may be a fulltime job for anyone to update available deposit/withdrawal options in the face of these uncertain and changing gaming times. What worked yesterday may not be available today.

Yes, but look at it like this:

They've had time to change the deposit options that are available in the cashier section, so they have had time to change it (or provide a disclaimer of sorts) on their website....

[wangpoker]

It's true Chinese players can deposit at VC by EcoCard and Click2Pay.

[vinylweatherman]

The question is surely WHY!

Click2pay and Ecocard are available to MANY countries, so why limit it to the obscure country of China (Obscure in the sense that they often have their own deposit means, and do not have to rely on the generally available ones).

This is also business stupidity, they have effectively prevented players from many parts of the world from being able to deposit, even though the site will accept them. They have lost the USA, but seem unconcerned that Canadian players can no longer deposit since Neteller, their eWallet of choice, pulled out.

If DEPOSITING is this hard, just wait till it comes time to WITHDRAW

If they don't want your money, tell them to "bugger off".

If they somehow fix their deposit methods, and you want to play, start by playing hard to get, tell them they screwed up, and you will not play unless they offer the SUB you should have got.

I have to wonder if their T & C are even up to date, and maybe they are about to ban Canada soon, so that will make their website correct again.

I played at VC ages ago, but they started to go downhill, so I stopped. They keep revamping the product, and even added Neteller. They mainly target the UK and EU, so probably don't worry about catering for Canadians given the risk that they too could end up with their own version of UIGEA.

[FourTeller]

Originally Posted by suzecat

It may be a fulltime job for anyone to update available deposit/withdrawal options in the face of these uncertain and changing gaming times. What worked yesterday may not be available today.

That is certainly possible - I would have understood if Click2Pay and EcoCard had previously been available to a wider range of customers but for whatever reason VC had decided to withdraw them in the not too distant past and not gotten around to updating their website. Nothing from customer support indicated that was ever actually the case, though, and even if it was my main point remains i.e. the fact that a customer has brought this erroneous information to their attention and they have not only failed to act on it but refused to even admit any fault.

Had CS just palmed me off with a simple "Thanks for bringing the matter to our attention, we'll forward it to the relevant person about getting it fixed," I'd probably have allowed them a few weeks to make the necessary changes, or maybe even forgotten about it altogether. It's VC staff's lame excuse about their site needing to contain information for their international customers (apparently the Chinese are the only ones who count in that category as far as they're concerned) and so they don't need to actually do anything that really befuddles and irritates me.

FT

[FourTeller]

Originally Posted by vinylweatherman

The question is surely WHY!

Click2pay and Ecocard are available to MANY countries, so why limit it to the obscure country of China (Obscure in the sense that they often have their own deposit means, and do not have to rely on the generally available ones).

This is also business stupidity, they have effectively prevented players from many parts of the world from being able to deposit, even though the site will accept them. They have lost the USA, but seem unconcerned that Canadian players can no longer deposit since Neteller, their eWallet of choice, pulled out.

You've nailed the heart of the issue of course, even though I didn't bring it up at all with VC as I thought I'd first address what I thought was the smaller, simpler issue of their banking webpage...

Originally Posted by vinylweatherman

If DEPOSITING is this hard, just wait till it comes time to WITHDRAW

If they don't want your money, tell them to "bugger off".

If they somehow fix their deposit methods, and you want to play, start by playing hard to get, tell them they screwed up, and you will not play unless they offer the SUB you should have got.

Oh, one email reminded me that I can still deposit there by wire transfer Like I'm going to go out of my way to trudge through the several-feet-deep of record snowfall in these parts, walk into my local bank branch, fill out forms, pay fees and wait for days to accomplish what I could easily do for free in the comfort of home with a couple of mouseclicks in under a minute? And for what - to give the same casino that couldn't be bothered with making a few simple edits to an online page in order to spare customers a lot of confusion and grief my business?

Originally Posted by vinylweatherman

I have to wonder if their T & C are even up to date, and maybe they are about to ban Canada soon, so that will make their website correct again.

I played at VC ages ago, but they started to go downhill, so I stopped. They keep revamping the product, and even added Neteller. They mainly target the UK and EU, so probably don't worry about catering for Canadians given the risk that they too could end up with their own version of UIGEA.

The irony is that I'm not even Canadian (although I've been living here for a while) and have been strongly considering returning home, where I can again use Neteller. This is the second site in as many months that has really riled me up by intentionally failing to communicate important information about funding my account beforehand and, quite frankly, I don't see myself playing at either one again from any location unless their attitude towards customers completely changes for the better.

FT

[vinylweatherman]

If you have to go out to make a deposit, you may as well go out and play at a proper B & M casino, with no fees (other than the fare to get there).

You will also have to withdraw by an inconvenient method too, if you go down the bank wire route, this will either be a return bank wire, or a check that takes weeks, and will have to be posted through feet of snow, and you will have to struggle to the bank a second time to cash it.

If I recall, Coral/Eurobet also have a casino similar to VC, when I played, both were non-download Chartwell casinos, although I haven't looked there for ages. If they still are both much the same, it might be worth looking to see if Coral can accept your preferred deposit methods. If they too have the same daft restrictions, it may be an industry thing, and shows the stupidity of their management for not keeping up to date with how Neteller, their preferred (and often only) choice, has pulled out of the gambling transaction market in one country after another, probably having been scared by the success of the US in extracting the ransom payment for the return of their founders, and ex-directors.

[kingkong098]

Originally Posted by suzecat

It may be a fulltime job for anyone to update available deposit/withdrawal options in the face of these uncertain and changing gaming times. What worked yesterday may not be available today.

I complained to them around Xmas time about the same exact situation. Nearly 4 months should be enough time to update their page.

Now that C2P only takes users from United States, the United Kingdom, Italy, Switzerland, Canada, South Africa, France, Austria or Germany I wonder how long it will take them to remove it as a payment option.

[FourTeller]

Originally Posted by kingkong098

I complained to them around Xmas time about the same exact situation. Nearly 4 months should be enough time to update their page.

Thanks for confirming that I'm not the only person who has brought this issue to VC Casino's attention (although I always found it unlikely) - it reinforces my growing conviction that this is not just lazy/clueless customer support to blame but a calculated decision to lead users astray BTW I sent another email on the weekend letting them know I had complained to the affiliate I signed up with and was also publicly posting about the problem. While I finally got a response again it was the same old silly line, especially on Click2Pay i.e. "The reason for it being advertised on the site is for [sic] because we offer it for certain countries." Apparently the concept of adding a simple disclaimer is still too hard to grasp

Originally Posted by kingkong098

Now that C2P only takes users from United States, the United Kingdom, Italy, Switzerland, Canada, South Africa, France, Austria or Germany I wonder how long it will take them to remove it as a payment option.

Are you sure about this? When I did an online search I found an old thread here about a message to this effect coming up whenever US players tried to use C2P right after the UIGEA fallout/DOJ crackdown. However, AFAIK, the service is available in most places (other than the ten currently on their T&Cs' restricted list) and the official site landing page still claims it is "worldwide in 180 countries" Of course, given that the entire thread is about not being able to trust a company's own website, that may not count for much...

FT