Grosvenor Casino: Withdrawal being paid but Screwed by Misleading withdrawal T&Cs.

[loganberry]

I recently opened an account at this casino, and deposited £330 using a Mastercard credit card. I was then lucky enough to win £7000 (on Alien Hunter which I absolutely lurve! I kept getting those eggs virtually ever other spin. ) which I immediately withdrew. On the withdrawal screen I was asked for my preferred withdrawal option, and I chose the Bank Wire transfer to my bank, filling in all the details required, including account number, sort code etc.

However last night I realised that the Bank Wire transfer symbol in the Transaction History log had been replaced by the Mastercard symbol, and on querying this with support, I was informed that the money has been returned to my credit card, via Grosvenor Casino's terms and conditions.

I had a long screamfest with them at this point, as this course of action now places my credit card in credit to the tune of thousands of pounds. But Grosvenor support do not seem to be able to understand the point that credit cards are not meant to have credit balances!!!

Their argument is that as my credit card accepts credit refunds that is how they pay, and that bank wire transfers are only used as a last resort. When I asked why I was offered a bank wire transfer as an option, they couldn't answer, and when I asked where this information is held, I was then told the T&Cs.

It isn't! So then I was told that the accounting department know about it, even though the customer does not.

Prior to making my withdrawal, I had a look on their website, and under HELP FAQs I found the following.

How do I withdraw my winnings?
To withdraw money from account go to Cashier and select the "withdraw" button.

If you have made credit cards deposit(s) prior to your Withdraw the money you now wish to withdraw will automatically be refunded to your credit cards. If you have withdrawn more than your total deposits, any amount in excess of that deposit amounts, will be refunded to you using your preferred method of payment, whether it is Bank draft or Wire transfer, selected by you.

The reason why we can't refund the entire winning amount to your Credit card is due to the Credit card company's limitations, and is out of our control.

Our credit card refund policy is the quickest way to pay the winnings. There are no charges for credit cards refunds.

Now exactly what is this saying? I read it as meaning that if my winnings exceed my credit card deposit, then the excess will be paid by either Bank draft or Wire Transfer. And the reason this happens is because of the explanation in paragraph 2.

I thought paragraph 3 referred to the following section of their T&Cs...

8.9 Subject to these terms, you can make withdrawals from your account up to your current available balance by debit card, Visa credit card or cheque (after taking into account all previous wagers). There are minimum and maximum limits on the amounts that you can withdraw from your account. Service charges are payable for withdrawals as set out below and will be deducted from your account at the time of withdrawal. In order to make a withdrawal from your account in excess of £10,000 you will be required to contact our Customer Services Team. Please note as follows -

Withdrawal by debit card and VISA credit cards not issued in the Americas: each withdrawal must be at least £10 (save in the case of a final withdrawal to close an account) and must be no greater than £10,000 in one transaction. Withdrawals may only be made to the card you have registered to your account and deposited funds with.

Which is not applicable to me as I used a Mastercard.

However Grosvenor support translates it totally differently, by saying that Paragraph 3 overrides paragraph 1 for all deposits. And that if my credit card accepts credit refunds, then that overrides everything else. WTF? I can't see anything in their T&Cs or the rest of the FAQs which confirm this at all, particularly relating to MasterCard.

To say I am furious is an understatement, as I now have to try to get over £4000 back from my credit card. And to add insult to injury, Grosvenor support made the inane suggestion of withdrawing it a day at a time up to my cash limit (£200).

[GrandMaster]

This is weird. Casinos usually claim that they are totally unable to process refunds to Mastercards.

[chayton]

The same thing happened to my boyfriend at a Playtech casino that will remain nameless (but it might be in the same group) His credit card was credited - I think it was $700 - all in increments of $20-$25!!! His transaction history page was bizarre!

Anyway we wondered the same thing - how can they pay to a credit card when it clearly states in their T&Cs that they DON'T???

[spearmaster]

Originally Posted by chayton

The same thing happened to my boyfriend at a Playtech casino that will remain nameless (but it might be in the same group) His credit card was credited - I think it was $700 - all in increments of $20-$25!!! His transaction history page was bizarre!

Anyway we wondered the same thing - how can they pay to a credit card when it clearly states in their T&Cs that they DON'T???

In your case that would probably be correct if your deposits have all been $20-$25 and the total of all those deposits exceeded $700.

[Kaynos72]

Just curious to know why it's bad for you to have your winning credited back to your CC ? I do it all the time with my visa card, i made deposit and withdraw no problems like that.

[loganberry]

Originally posted by Kaynos72
Just curious to know why it's bad for you to have your winning credited back to your CC ? I do it all the time with my visa card, i made deposit and withdraw no problems like that.

1: The 3% withdrawal fee for each cash transaction.

2: The limit to how much cash I am able to withdraw on a daily basis - currently £200- means that I effectively do not have access to my own money.

3: The lack of interest being earned while the money is sitting in credit-card limbo land.

[GrandMaster]

Can't you get a cheque for your credit balance?

[loganberry]

Oh...and another thing....having the winnings paid back into my CC means that I lose my entitlement to my 56 days interest free credit period for any goods I may have purchased, as the winnings are automatically used to pay the balance off.

And unfortunately, a cheque is not an option - my CC card company do not offer that facility.

However, there may be light at the end of the tunnel, as the CC company have agreed to transfer the plus balance into my bank account, although it will take them approximately 10 days to action.

So due to Grosvenor Casino not abiding by their written T&Cs, I have been seriously inconvenienced. And lost some perks of my CC due to their actions.

Null Points, Grosvenor Casino.

[vinylweatherman]

These are all valid points. Casinos SHOULD NOT refund such large amounts to credit cards without express permission from the player. Requiring the refund of deposits is fine, but card companies DO NOT LIKE holders having such large credit balances. Even with it still being "available", it is not "money", but "credit to be spent" through the card. The card company is at fault by allowing this transfer, if they had refused to accept more than the original deposit, the casino would have been forced to honour the choice of bank wire.
The best bet for such casinos is to find a credit card that is "casino friendly". Such cards will usually be VISA, and linked through online banking to a current account at the same bank. This means that such a credit could easily be moved from the card to the current account, and then onward to an interest bearing savings account.
MANY UK credit cards now charge intererest from day 1 on transactions they deem as "for the purposes of gambling", although the advance fee of around 2.5% is not normally charged (they regard these as "cash advances", and not purchases).
I have a Barclaycard, and so far this is the most "casino friendly" credit card I have had. Casino deposits are still purchases, and benefit from the interest free period. They also accept refunds of winnings, and seem to credit them quickly for later use. I get around the problems of large refunds from big wins by using the card for all further casino deposits till the credit has been used up. I had two large wins credited back to this card a while ago, and it caused no problems, and I was quickly able to reuse the funds at other casinos.
For a low roller though, it could be quite an inconvenience to have large wins effectively paid as "credit vouchers", rather than immediate cash.

[GOCC]

AND under the consumer credit act 1974, if you make a purchase using a credit card that puts you into debt (IE the normal use of the credit card) you have extra protection.

If you use the card to make a purchase and you are already in credit on the card and the purchase doesnt put you into debt, you have NO protection