American Grand Refused to Pay My Winnings of $4979.00

[Griff1324]

This is the letter that I submitted to Montana roughly 6 months ago:

To Whom It May Concern:

I am filing a formal complaint against American Grand Casino (http://www.americangrandcasino.com). My username at the casino is Ferf.

On July 14th 2006 I made a deposit of $100 and another deposit of $500, both via FirePay. I proceeded to win at American Grand Casino and requested a withdrawal of $4979.00. I submitted the appropriate documentation that they require to process a withdrawal. On July 18th I decided to log into my account and see if my withdrawal had been processed. Upon trying to log into my account, a message was displayed that I was not able to log into my account and that I needed to contact customer service.

I promptly contacted customer service to find out what the problem was. I was rudely told that I had another account open with the casino. However, the person from American Grand Casino was unable to tell me any information about this other account that I had with the casino. He also stated that my withdrawal would not be processed and that all funds in my account were void. The person from American Grand Casino also stated that I would not even be allowed to receive my original deposits back.

After additional words with this person from American Grand Casino, he finally told me that the other account that I had with the casino was under the username Griff. However, he was unable to tell me any other information about the Griff account, including when it was open. After more words with this person, he transferred me to a manager.

The manager continued to give me the same story and stated that I would not receive the withdrawal that I had requested. Upon trying to get more information from the manager, he proceeded to hang up the phone on me. I immediately called the casino back.

This time I was able to get a date on when the Griff account was opened. It was in 2001 but the person from the casino would not provide me with any dates of the last deposit using this account. The person from the casino then proceeded to tell me that maybe I should have read the terms of service and if I thought that I had another account open, I should have contacted the casino and in the end it was my fault.

I have sense gone back and read through their complete terms of service. It clearly states at the bottom of their terms of service that “All accounts that are inactive for a 6 month period will be deemed to be inactive and will be closed.” If I did in fact have an account open under Griff with American Grand Casino, I am certain that it had not been used in years. Therefore, that account should have been deemed inactive and closed.

I immediately began to investigate the practices of American Grand Casino and came across the website www.casinomeister.com. I was able to discover that Five Roses Casino had changed their name to American Grand Casino back in 2001. I may have had an account with Five Roses back in 2001 but nowhere on the American Grand Casino website or within their terms of service do they reference Five Roses Casino. Therefore, I was not aware that I was violating any terms of service because I had an account open with Five Roses Casino. Plus, according to the American Grand Casino terms of service that account should have been deemed inactive and closed.

I strongly feel that I am entitled to my complete withdrawal of $4979.00 from American Grand Casino. Their managers were extremely rude and provided me very little information on why my withdrawal would not be processed. I would greatly appreciate it if you would take the time to investigate this matter so that I can receive the winnings that I deserve.

Sincerely,

Chris Simmons

A few weeks later I did receive $500 deposited back into my PayPal account. I assumed that this was for my original deposit. However, I was still owed $4479.

I proceeded to submit a PAB sometime after I submitted my claim to Montana. I never really got a response back from Bryan stating if he got anywhere with my PAB.

Montana made a ruling with their final findings (which I believe was in my favor) but they were waiting for American Grand to respond. My complaint was in the "Final Findings" for months and I never heard a thing from American Grand or Montana.

Now that I have seen that Montana is pretty much dissolved, I am bringing my story to these message boards and anywhere else that I can. It is extremely unfortunate that RTG allows these types of establishments to continue to carry their license. It also does not look good for RTG to dissolve their dispute department without having another in place. On top of that, those of us that did have disputes were hung out to dry with the eliminating of Montana Overseas.

Later,

Chris Simmons

[siriuscirrus]

Unfortunately, these guys are in the Crystal Palace, Ollie Curran/Cloud group. Can take anywhere from 6 months-2years to get your winnings. Keep fighting and don't let them get away with it!

Btw, I think you meant money back to your firepay, not paypal unless we are back in 2001 and the good old days of gaming online.

[Griff1324]

Unfortunately, these guys are in the Crystal Palace, Ollie Curran/Cloud group. Can take anywhere from 6 months-2years to get your winnings. Keep fighting and don't let them get away with it!

Btw, I think you meant money back to your firepay, not paypal unless we are back in 2001 and the good old days of gaming online.

LOL, yes I did mean FirePay. However, I was around in 2001 and gaming was good

Later,

Chris

[dc9999]

This type of behavior is standard practice for the folks that run the entity now known as Crystalisle Group.

Your story, like mine and countless others, has been repeated over and over again with only slight variations. Basically, the game plan these rogues use, is to find ANY means possible to deny cashouts in excess of $4,000.

In fact, consider this gem I received on January 5 at my website from an ex casino employee previously affiliated with an RTG run casino:

"Sir, I have read your issue with Crystal Palace and the withholding of your twenty thousand dollars in some detail, and all I can tell you is - join the club! I used to work for an RTG casino and I can tell you we were ORDERED to find any means possible to deny cashins. Did not matter if it was for too many accounts opened, notice on a list of bad risks (that we really didn't even have current!) or as in your case, threats made to the casino however small. If you don't find a way to deny, your gone, or you dont make bonus...

I now run a sportsbook with my cousin,,,and its night and day...no cheat,,no problms from peopple PLUS i can sleep nights! Good luck with your fight...it will tough and these guys are tough oness. "

As you mentioned, Montana is no more, and what I consider absolutely bush league behavior, RTG didn't even have the decency to notify those folks that are far along in the dispute process about their demise. Hastings BV is the alleged replacement, but that's moving at a snails pace.

Curiously, it was noted that "Oliver Curran" (actually it's an alias for any number of CP employees) was trolling the boards here yesterday, but did not make any posts to the best of my knowledge. I personally sent him some messages, but in all likelihood, they will never be replied to.

My position therefore, has been to attack the problem at its nexus: the
REAL TIME GAMING (RTG) headquarters.

Clearly they have to take responsibility for the rash of rogue/criminal licensees they are doing business with - and have been in bed with since their inception.

I'll keep you posted on my/our progress, but I believe the tide will be turning shortly.

Hang in there - and "Oliver"....how do you even sleep at night or look yourself in the mirror without total disgust?

And RTG execs......it would be quite helpful if you stopped pulling the "Howard Hughes" act, and faced the music. Thanks.

[OliverCurran]

Hi Chris

At the time when American Grand adopted its new name, a thorough campaign was undertaken advising all players of this fact.

As with all matters of law, ignorantia legis non excusat.

As you have registered, played and redeemed bonuses in multiple accounts at the casino, this is a violation of our terms.

Best regards
Oliver Curran
American Grand Casino

[dc9999]

Wow Oliver!
Talk about a resurrection!!

Hey pal, funny how you've IGNORED my PM's, emails, and about 800 other posters over SIX months relative to the $22,000 you're withholding from me without merit.

Montana Disputes even ruled in my favor, and The Ring Firm (you know who they are right Ollie? RTG's legal team...) even found your absconding of my winnings AND deposits "very disturbing".

You know how to reach me....so in all seriousness, why not respond to ALL of your inquiries - and not just cherry pick those you feel you stand a chance of covering.

And Mr Curran, since you're fond of quoting Latin phrases: Accipere quam facere praestat injuriam - It is better to suffer an injustice than to do an injustice

[Griff1324]

Hi Chris

At the time when American Grand adopted its new name, a thorough campaign was undertaken advising all players of this fact.

As with all matters of law, ignorantia legis non excusat.

As you have registered, played and redeemed bonuses in multiple accounts at the casino, this is a violation of our terms.

Best regards
Oliver Curran
American Grand Casino

It's rather amusing that the casinos that you represent are so persistent on spamming your patrons, including those that have been banned, about "bonuses" that are being offered. However, you cannot make it a point to mention ANYWHERE in your TOS that there has been a name change at the casino.

It is rather quite clear how you operate your business. Why would you want to clearly state in the Terms of Service that anyone that had an account at the casino, under its old name of Five Roses, is not eligible for a bonus at the renamed casino, American Grand? After all, by not stating this little piece of information in the TOS, you can justify deny paying any winnings to your customers. Also, it is rather convenient for you to accept and continue to accept deposits from players "banned" at sister casinos and then deny them any withdrawals.

I have never been more disgusted with the way someone conducts their business. There is never a guarantee in gambling, however I am certain that one day your business practices will catch up to you.

I will be certain to continue to post my story throughout the internet and I will be sure to inform you where and when I do.

Later,

Chris

[dc9999]

Again, when you see how casinos like American Grand manipulate the T&C's strictly with the intent of screwing the player, it's no wonder the "big boys" of gambling (like Bally's and MGM) can't wait to enter this market.

Of course, if Chris kept depositing - and losing - you can bet he wouldn't have received a "friendly reminder" from the Crystalisle folks about this multiple account "violation".

Bottom line: deposit and lose - it doesn't matter what T&C's you're not abiding by.

deposit and WIN - well let's just say, you'll see more interpretations of T&C "violations" than a Philadelphia lawyer could devise!

[kyleb]

Yeah, I can't wait to open a casino using RTG software and simply not pay anyone. Montana/Hastings is a joke, Casinomeister can only send emails to the casino operators, and no one regulates them.