PowerBet is stealing $7090 from my friend

[kyleb]

I am posting on behalf of my friend since he attempted to create an account and is in the moderation queue.

My friend registered with Powerbet before the UIEGA passed, deposited for various bonuses (but cleared them all easily with plenty of play), and his account was locked for "multi-account abuse." He had played at PowerBet on the same IP mistakenly (wrong wireless network connection), so the mistake was purely an accident. They signed up from different computers and locations, and both have ID's to confirm that they are even from different states!

So, he called tonight to confirm that this was the problem, and they said his account was locked because he was from a banned state. Well, fine - just send him the money as a refund to his NETeller account. "Sam" from their support team refused, saying it would be illegal to do so.

That is ridiculous, considering that no other casino has had problems with him (or me, for that matter) with regards to sending the balance back.

He has contacted Montana Overseas and wants to PAB, but since the form is down, he is using my username for this as well.

His friend is probably in the same situation - who will be out over $13,000+ because she also comes from a banned state, but cleared her bonuses a long time ago. She will call to confirm that this is the case (I'm sure it will be) and then file a dispute with Montana and create an account here. However, for the time being, I will represent both of them and they can post comments under my username.

Meister, is there anything we can do here? The bonuses were fully cleared and the accounts were made before the ban - they accepted our money, our wagers, then just took the money.

 

[OliverCurran]

Payments

Hi Kyleb

Power Bet is not stealing any funds from players - I can assure you of that.

As you know there has been some confusion and misunderstandings regarding the situation in the 9 states where there have recently been legislative changes.

In situations where players in those 9 states have pending withdrawals and all relevant wagering requirements have been met, the withdrawals will be processed in full.

Please provide me with your friend's player ID and I will be happy to resolve the issue for them.

Best regards
Oliver Curran
Power Bet
1800 824 3175

 

[kyleb]

Oliver,

WOW!

Thank you for the ridiculously fast response! I will get both usernames to you ASAP (he went to bed, class in the morning), most likely tomorrow morning/afternoon.

Do you need them to do anything else besides forward you the usernames, so I can get all the relevant information to them in one fell swoop?

EDIT: Oh, I just remembered - neither of them have pending withdrawals, only outstanding balances, because neither of them were able to initiate a withdrawal before their accounts were locked.

 

[OliverCurran]

Withdrawals

Hi Kyleb

Just have them contact our call centre via phone, chat or email preferably after 7pm US east coast time tomorrow and we will be able to sort it out for them.

Sincerely
Oliver Curran
Power Bet
1800 824 3175

 

[kyleb]

I PM'd you the necessary information - thank you again for your quick response time, and I hope it all works out.

 

[OliverCurran]

Withdrawals

Hi Kyleb

Thank you for providing me with the account details of both of your friends. I have had the opportunity to look into both accounts and what is clear is that these withdrawals were declined PRIOR to the changes to the legislation.

The reason the withdrawals were declined has NOTHING to do with the fact that we have stopped accepting players in the 9 states.

The reason they were both declined is becauuse there is a case of multiple account fraud going on here.

Your two friends are both playing from the same IP address according to our system. This is very strange as one of them claims to live in Oregon and the other claims to live in Washington. If that is the case, why are the both playing on the same IP address?

As you will no doubt be aware, providing false address information is a form of fraud. Furthermore, Power Bet clearly states in its terms that registering multiple accounts from the same IP address is considered to be a violation or our rules.

May I take this opportunity to reiterate that we WILL pay all withdrawals to players who have had their accounts locked due to recent changes in the law, so long as they are not fraudulent and have met all the necessary terms and conditions.

However in the case of your two friends, the reason their withdrawals were declined was not because of the states they live in, but due to the other suspicious circumstances outlined above.

We at Power Bet are fair minded and will always do whatever we can to demonstrate this to our players, and therefore we have taken it upon ourselves to refund the last deposits to both of your friends. They can now log into their NETeller accounts to see that those last deposits were refunded. We have made this gesture of goodwill to your friends despite the fact that we are not obliged to do this given the multiple account fraud that is taking place here.

Best regards
Oliver Curran
Power Bet
1800 824 3175

 

[kyleb]

Oliver,

As I stated above:

"My friend registered with Powerbet before the UIEGA passed, deposited for various bonuses (but cleared them all easily with plenty of play), and his account was locked for "multi-account abuse." He had played at PowerBet on the same IP mistakenly (wrong wireless network connection), so the mistake was purely an accident. They signed up from different computers and locations, and both have ID's to confirm that they are even from different states!"

The representative on the phone said this wasn't a problem whatsoever, but there is a very simple reason why this happened. It was because the two players (who signed up from different computers and different internet connections) had shared a wireless connection accidentally after signing up, and it locked their accounts.

Yes, one's address is is OR and the other is in WA - but as explained by the person in OR, he goes to school in WA now.

You also say:

"Furthermore, Power Bet clearly states in its terms that registering multiple accounts from the same IP address is considered to be a violation or our rules."

Their accounts were not registered from the same IP address - they only accidentally played from the same IP at one point.

At any rate, Dave's account was validated here at CM, so he'll take over posting here when he gets back from class.

Thanks again for looking into it!

 

[rachelrae]

Hello all - I am one of the aforementioned users.

kyleb told it pretty much spot on - the other user (dave) and I registered from different locations, deposited and played from different computers and internet connections, and are obviously not the same person! Dave came over my apartment on his laptop and played from the same wireless network I did while I was playing, and we thought nothing of this - but apparently this is good enough to get our accounts locked.

We both go to school in WA, but his permanent residence is in OR. I have no problem sending in a copy of my ID to prove this if you wish.

I see that one of my depoists for $2000 was refunded, but I have deposited $4777 total with winnings of well over $8000, and I want the full amount paid back. I plan on filing a dispute with Montana Overseas and hopefully CasinoMeister will also look into this as well. You are more than welcome to share the logs, as the only thing that will be strange (and it really isn't that strange at all) is that we played from the same IP at one time.

hopefully Dave will post his side of the story as well. Thanks.

 

[vinylweatherman]

This will happen more.

This could be a real problem with public Wi-Fi Hotspots. ANY player who plays away from home via Wi-Fi could fall for this some time.
Playing from the same COMPUTER, though, might be grounds for suspicion, but not simply the same IP. Dynamic IP is increasingly common, my own broadband has switched over to this, so if anyone is playing at the same casino as me in an area the size of New York or London, there is the chance of us both having the same IP at some time.
Playing from the same IP at the same time would support the explanation above. It is the actual computer ID on registration that is more useful in flagging possible account abuse. An easy way to prove that these are two different players is to look for proof of address from official documents. For the amount of money at stake, it would be worth getting a sworn copy and sending it by "proper" post rather than scanned and E-mailed.

 

[kyleb]

Exactly - I agree completely. The logs will obviously show that they didn't play from the same computer, but instead shared a Wi-Fi hotspot IP at one time during play (and not even at the time of registration as Oliver said).

There is nothing against the T&C regarding this.

 

[happygobrokey]

not to be a downer, and i'm not familiar with power bet, but if the two persons were playing poker (were they?) from the same ip at the same time, it might be deemed that they were looking at each other's screens and colluding.

one of my poker buddies logged on to party or something at another of the groups' house, and his account got locked. the reason was because those two accounts often sat at the same table together and now the one account is logging in from the other's ip. ergo they must be friends. ergo they must have been telling each other their cards via msn or something when they played together. of course they actually were in fact doing just that, but doesn't make it fair or right for them to get locked. but don't blame the casino for suspecting cheating.

but the regulations regarding these types of issues are quite stringent, i mean university campuses all share an ip, so only one person in the whole school can get bonuses using the school's connection, ever. it sucks, but that's the rules.

i'm not condemning the players who are the subject of this thread, and indeed if you were not playing poker and never sat together or entered the same tourney, you should for all intents and purposes be good to go. good luck fighting this one, i recognize the name oliver curran and from what i recall he's not very player-friendly.

 

[kyleb]

not to be a downer, and i'm not familiar with power bet, but if the two persons were playing poker (were they?) from the same ip at the same time, it might be deemed that they were looking at each other's screens and colluding.

No, it wasn't poker - it was an online casino.

 

[bpb]

A dispute with Montana is your only hope. Unfortunately, you've given Crystal Palace all the ammo needed. It doesn't matter that you can provide ID showing you are two separate people. It doesn't matter that there's probably only one instance of play from the same IP, vs a history of play from separate IPs. It doesn't matter that logic and reason dictate that honest casinos should be happy that friends are encouraging friends to gamble away their money online.

We're talking about a group here that has an MO of locking your account when you claim a bonus and win, then they send offers to the email address you used with the locked account, encouraging you to sign up with one of their sister casinos. They let you sign up and create an account (using all the same info from the locked account). If you lose, they keep your money. If you win, they invoke the fine print, stating that you aren't allowed to open an account with a sister casino if you've been locked out of one already.

A group that would do the above is of course going to seize all possible funds if you use the same wireless network as another account holder.

You got freerolled. Live and learn.

 

[The Dude]

I'm just catching up with this now.

...Meister, is there anything we can do here? The bonuses were fully cleared and the accounts were made before the ban - they accepted our money, our wagers, then just took the money.

Your best bet is to contact Montana Disputes - they will look into this even though at times they are a bit slow. Nevertheless, it doesn't look good since these friends have the same IP address (possible collusion and/or multiple accounts). Your IP is the same as well FWIW. Just curious, why are you stating that your location is Cleveland Ohio (in your user profile) when in fact you're posting from Washington State?

Not that there is anything wrong with this, it just looks funny.

 

[kyleb]

Meister,

Thanks for replying.

I just haven't updated my profile on here - I was born and raised in Cleveland, OH, and moved out here in February. I'll update it though!

As for the IP's being the same, Dave created his account from my computer. He hasn't yet posted, though. Rachel shouldn't have the same IP, though.

Anyway, thanks for your ideas!

 

[rachelrae]

Filed with Montana

I have filed my claim with Montana Overseas/Disputes today, and David received an update to his dispute that he filed a few weeks ago.

Sorry for not keeping this updated, but I've been pretty busy with school and such. We have done nothing wrong and they are robbing us of our money as a stupid excuse because of a single shared IP.

 

[dddestroyer]

So I got my update from Montana over 2 weeks ago and still haven't heard anything back from powerbet. How long should they take with this?

Dear David, Final findings have been sent to the operator. This is the operator’s opportunity to respond against our ruling, or to resolve this claim internally. Thank you, The Player Dispute Team

What is my next step?

Dave

*EDIT* and a email to [email protected] BOUNCED!?!?!? =(

 

[Macgyver]

*EDIT* and a email to [email protected] BOUNCED!?!?!? =(

New disputes channel for RTG ... from an Announcement Bryan posted on November 19:

Just a heads up that Montana Disputes is no more. RTG casinos have a new master licensor which will be taking over their disputes department. If you have an RTG dispute, please contact them here:
Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

 

[kyleb]

My friends have had no resolution through the RTG disputes channel, PAB, or Powerbet at all.

It's rather discouraging.

 

[rachelrae]

Still no word from RTG disputes or the Meister...

 

[kyleb]

Hello, anyone?

Meister, Oliver Curran, anyone out there going to look into this?

They are seizing the money based on a single shared IP that was due to a wireless point of access by complete accident. This is good enough proof to seize $20,000?

Nice.

 

[eeeee]

This is posted in the "non-bonus" section. That implies there are no bonuses involved in the complaint.

That being said, who cares what the T&C's are? Who cares if they play from the same IP address? If they are the same person, playing games with a house advantage, why would the casino care if they lost money twice as fast?

Just another grasping, unethical casino.

It disturbs me that bpb calls this 'freerolled'. That's a new use of the term to me, but fits exactly. Makes me want to say bad words.

 

[tesla]

Meister, Oliver Curran, anyone out there going to look into this?

They are seizing the money based on a single shared IP that was due to a wireless point of access by complete accident. This is good enough proof to seize $20,000?

Nice.

with a casino group like this you are guilty until proven innocent.

 

[rachelrae]

Yes, is there any update whatsoever with this?

 

[The Dude]

Meister, Oliver Curran, anyone out there going to look into this?

They are seizing the money based on a single shared IP that was due to a wireless point of access by complete accident. This is good enough proof to seize $20,000?

Nice.

You never PABd

 

[The Dude]

Yes, is there any update whatsoever with this?

Your PAB only contained the URL for this thread. It doesn't help much when I need information on deposit amounts, dates, whatever. You aren't providing me with any additional information.

 

[rachelrae]

Resubmitted PAB

I've resubmitted the PAB to you. Thanks for looking into it.

 

[rachelrae]

It's been about six days since I sent the PAB, any news?

 

[rachelrae]

Still no word over a week of waiting. I've PM'd and emailed Meister and bothered Powerbet with emails, no dice on any contact at all.

 

[The Dude]

It's been forwarded. Thanks for your patience.

 

[dc9999]

RTG really has to step it up regarding the Hastings BV dispute forum that's been promised as the next iteration of Montana.

Point Two: It's truly mind boggling to read how many "rules" are allegedly broken by online gamblers who frequent "Oliver Curran" managed casinos so that their winnings can be withheld/confiscated.

I wonder if someone affiliated with these sites ever PROACTIVELY contacts a player while they're in the midst of a LOSING streak to remind them that in the event their luck turns and they request a cashout, they won't be paid because of the "rules violations." PUHLEASE ...don't get me started!!

Bottom line: (and yes I am the proverbial broken record..) : If you ACCEPT the players deposits and CONTINUE TO LET THEM PLAY..YOU MUST PAY OUT ANY ACCRUED WINNINGS!!!!!!

C'mon "Oliver"...this sham has been going on for years, and it's made you and your cronies quite wealthy...

I guess if there is a silver lining to these stories, it's that thankfully, the rogue casino operators will hopefully be eradicated in the not too distant future when the big boys (like MGM-Mirage) finally take over this swarthy industry and let gamblers play without worrying about getting ripped off due to these BS "rules violations".

I just hope the folks in Vegas and Atlantic City don't adopt your "rules" because it would definitely set off national riots!

Here's what would happen if RTG and "Oliver Curran" ran the Bellagio or Caesars...

My case (sort of): "I'm sorry, sir...even though you won 25 grand on Let It Ride, your wife gave the dealer some menancing looks, and threatened to throw your chips all over the casino, therefore, we will not be paying you your winnings, nor refunding you the money you purchased in casino chips.."

This case (sort of): "I'm sorry ma'm. Casino security noticed that your husband was also playing a similar slot machine linked to a progressive jackpot and you were using funds from the same ATM, therefore we will be voiding your winnings, and banning you from the casino..."

RTG bonus cases: "I'm sorry sir, we will not let you cash in your ten thousand dollar marker, because you violated the terms and conditions of the $50 comp we issued you. It clearly states on line item #26 on page fourteen of the casino brochure we make available on the way to the restroom, that all bonus funds must be played through a minimum of twenty times, and that if you play the bonus through twenty times, but it is a Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, or Friday, all winnings will be confiscated by the casino . In addition, you will not be permitted to partake of our free buffet.."

SEE YA AT ICE "OLLIE"

 

[rachelrae]

What a surprise, I'm still waiting on a response from anyone...

 

[rachelrae]

Still nothing - PM'd + Emailed Bryan and Oliver to no avail. It's been three weeks since I've heard from anyone...

 

[winbig]

Still nothing - PM'd + Emailed Bryan and Oliver to no avail. It's been three weeks since I've heard from anyone...

Bryan isn't touching RTG's right now unless they're accredited, or Hastings gets their a$$ in gear (yea right) and starts processing complaints.

 

[kyleb]

Bryan isn't touching RTG's right now unless they're accredited, or Hastings gets their a$$ in gear (yea right) and starts processing complaints.

Not true - he's not handling any more than the first complaint sent in on a non-accredited casino from a given user. I think this is the right play, for sure.

That being said, good to see nothing is getting done, as usual.

 

[winbig]

Not true - he's not handling any more than the first complaint sent in on a non-accredited casino from a given user. I think this is the right play, for sure.

That being said, good to see nothing is getting done, as usual.

Give the guy a break. He's on vacation. Wouldn't you want to enjoy one also? Not like he's here 24/7 to assist in PAB's.

WARNING: Players be advised that you are relying on the discernment, empathy and responsiveness of the casino operator to consider your dispute. I will assist as time permits.

 

[kyleb]

My comment was directed at Oliver Curran and his team, not Casinomeister. It seems like he forwarded the PAB, which is about all he can do for now.

Been three days since the "vacation," Ollie - what's the deal?

 

[hackkevin]

Well, good to see that this Powerbet dispute has been going on for months and nothing is getting done. I feel really good about my chances.

 

[The Dude]

The problem is - is that Kyleb and Rachael Rae all have played from the same IP address, thus the casino is considering this a case of multiple accounts.

 

[BBKPoker]

I can understand why that might cause complications with cashouts, and how it could be construed as a case of multiple accounts, but it doesn't seem to be against the terms and conditions. Only signing up from the same ip/household is against their terms from what I am reading (correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see anything against logging in from the same ip being against their T&C). It seems similiar to me the way that poker sites are suspicious of accounts that have played from the same ip, but generally it's not a big deal with them if you login from the same ip as your friend's.

As such, it seems like they should be paying.

 

[kyleb]

The problem is - is that Kyleb and Rachael Rae all have played from the same IP address, thus the casino is considering this a case of multiple accounts.

For what it's worth, I've never played at Powerbet (or any RTG besides Cool Cat). I suspect you mean Dave.

 

[The Dude]

Yeah, I guess I meant Dave, but you still share his IP address, and he Rachel's.

In fact, the following members share IP addresses:

kyleb
BBKPoker
hackkevin
rachelrae
dddestroyer
leenperkins

And most of these members have an issue with Powerbet (amongst others). So what am I supposed to think?

This is reminiscent of a massive fraud ring from Washington state that I dealt with several years ago. I'm wondering if I dig up these records, perhaps some of the same IPs, names, emails addresses and other similarities will surface. I'm not accusing anyone of fraud here, but there are a number of things that don't jive.

 

[Pinababy69]

Just to clarify CM (and out of curiousity), do you mean that those five members all share the same IP here at the forum? Or at the casino?

 

[The Dude]

Just to clarify CM (and out of curiousity), do you mean that those five members all share the same IP here at the forum? Or at the casino?

They share the same IP addresses in the forum. Rachelrae and dddestroyer know each other and played at the casino via the same IP - winnings denied for have ing multiple accounts. Leenperkins was also denied her winnings for having multiple accounts from the same casino.

I'm not accusing anyone of anything here - I'm just pointing this out.

 

[kyleb]

In fact, the following members share IP addresses:

kyleb
BBKPoker
hackkevin
rachelrae
dddestroyer
leenperkins

I have already said that I know and have shared a computer (when showing them how to signup for CM) with Rachel and Dave (ddestroyer). I also know BBKPoker, as we work together.

I can't explain the other relations with the exception of knowing that they have outstanding Powerbet issues.

 

[BBKPoker]

Leenperkins is in our office as well, Kyle, I showed her CM on my computer. Not sure who hackkevin is, but I'd assume he's an officemate too. You certainly have my welcome to pull up any old records of ips, emails, etc to check ips matching, I'm sure we can't possibly match what you are describing from several years back.

 

[OliverCurran]

Syndicate of Bonus Fraud

Hi Casinomeister,

I am very pleased to read your comment regarding the fact that all of these players share the same IP address on your system as well.

This strengthens our view that all these players represent a syndicate of promotion abusers who are playing online together - and the players themselves seem to admit it.

This is a clear violation of the casino terms and we have no regrets whatsoever about the actions we have taken to block this syndicate.

Sincerely
Oliver Curran
Power Bet Casino

 

[mikepipe]

I dont know Mr. Curran, nor have i played at his casinos. But to me this sounds absolutely reasonable.
We cannot seriously discuss issues from players who share IPs at a casino. (if this is really the matter here!).

 

[Pinababy69]

I'm sorry Kyle, but I do find alot of this odd. To start with, you were posting for your "friend", be that Rachel or DDDestroyer (Dave). Then, one or both of them had to create an account here at CM from your computer. Do they not have computers of their own? And if not, how did they sign up at the casino from different computers?

Four of the above six live in Washington, according to their profiles. One is from California, and one is from Sacramento and Roanoke.

Rachel, DDDestroyer and leenperkins all list their occupations as students. Kyle is a small business owner, hackkevin is in phone sales and BBKPoker has no occupation. Then Kyle says he does know BBKPoker as they work together, but doesn't know the others. Then BBKPoker comes on and says they do know leenperkins as she also works with them. Well, where do you guys work? If Kyle is the business owner, don't you know who works for you? Then we find out that your posts in this forum are all from the same IP. So my guess is either you are all sharing a computer or computers from the same office, or you are all students using University computers.

I'm sorry guys, but it just don't smell right, not to me anyway.

 

[dc9999]

TWO problems exist here from my vantage point:

1- As pinababy69 and The Meister have pointed out, the whole situation does have an unusual "smell" to it. No argument there, however the players should be granted the opportunity to provide additional supporting information that would either disprove - or - inevitably confirm the suspicions that exist.

2- As I mentioned in another post pursuant to the American Grand dispute, I find it appalling that Mr. Curran chooses to selectively respond to SOME posts, while ignoring many others. Even if this case goes against the players involved (which I agree is a distinct possibility),lets not forget that Oliver and his cohorts do not have a very good track record on effectively resolving customer disputes.

Still...I am all for dialogue, and perhaps the re-emergence of Mr. Curran will mark the beginning of a more consistent response pattern by the casinos he represents.