Mathematical Proof that English Harbour is cheating

[JohnGalt]

Originally Posted by spearmaster

You guys can cry for a full investigation all you like but I am simply not going to proceed without some evidence that there were indeed problems before this.

Of course you and they can do what you like. But I can only think of one reason why a casino would not want to take the relatively simple step of proving that their doubling game has been fair all along.

They went back 4 months. Why only 4 months? Why not 3 years? And according to you, they DID go back more than 4 months, since analyzing only 4 months would have made it impossible for them to make their initial statement that everything was okay. So why did they release results for only 4 months?

[spearmaster]

They chose the wrong test to begin with. That in itself does not provide any reason for looking back over the last 2-3 years. The only problem discovered was the period in question.

For the last time - there is nothing to investigate unless some reasonable evidence is produced by someone.

This is not a court. I am trying to resolve the issue at hand, and NOT determine their past history.

[soflat]

Originally Posted by spearmaster

You guys can cry for a full investigation all you like but I am simply not going to proceed without some evidence that there were indeed problems before this. I have already explained why I cannot do this and I am not going to be the one opening the Pandora's Box, period.

I thought they asked you what data was needed to clear up this mess. So you asked for the code. That clears it up for you apparently. Were they asking what info would convince you, or what would satisfy the community of players at CM?

We don't have any other go-between. Maybe someone from EH is reading the threads. If they are I hope they know that some of us would be satisfied if we saw that the games were always fair before the recent incident.

I don't know how many players are already satisfied with just the code, and how many would give them a second chance only on seeing a 2-3 audit. A poll to see how many players are interested in what data might be a good thing.

[spearmaster]

And just who is going to donate their time poring over 3 years worth of logs based on an unsubstantiated claim?

You guys must think we have a lot of time on our hands...

[GrandMaster]

The casino's own software should be able to produce the required information. Of course, some people will reject anything coming from the casino as forged.

[120sam]

I want to know for myself - if you don't WANT me to get the answer then I won't waste my time telling you.

I don't want anyone to have to go and get the answer. I want EH to have the courtesy to bring it here instead of hiding behind a go-between.

We don't have any other go-between.

Why do we need a go-between? EH should be addressing their customers directly.

English Harbour's crisis management seems to be as pathetically incompetent as various other areas of their operation have been shown to be. They are a bunch of amateurs who shouldn't be allowed near anyone's money. They certainly won't be allowed near mine.

[tennis_balls]

Originally Posted by spearmaster

And just who is going to donate their time poring over 3 years worth of logs based on an unsubstantiated claim?

You guys must think we have a lot of time on our hands...

donate? hopefully EH will see the light and pay an independent party to do this work.

[nafanny29]

What I still cannot get my head around is the sudden drop-off of actual play from the day the "bug" entered the game.

These are the figures for the days before and after "bugday"

Apr 12: wins=1199, losses=1195, ties=121, win ratio=50.08%
Apr 13: wins=194, losses=266, ties=27, win ratio=42.17%

During the period Apr 1 - Apr 12 there were an average of 1993 double up actions every day. Why the sudden dramatic drop to 487 the very day the bug enters the mix. Something here just does not make any sence to me.

[GrandMaster]

1. Some people may try to double up more than once. If they lose more often, they will get fewer opportunities.

2. If people lose too often, they might feel it is not their lucky day and stop doubling up or playing VP.

3. It is worth checking whether there was any change in the T&C.

[AceMan76]

The only problem discovered was the period in question.

How could other problems be discovered without access to the data? How many actual players keep a log of each bet they make and the results? In this instance the players GOT LUCKY that lawnet noticed something amiss, knew of this forum, and posted his results. This could have easily gone unnoticed in the past if it occured over short periods of time.

EH's position is that this is a one-time glitch. The burden is on them to establish this as a fact because they are the ones claiming it as a defense. How can this be considered a one-time glitch when no one has been able to analyze the past data? Can I say because the sun came out today it is a one time glitch because I didn't see it come out yesterday? For all I know, this game has glitches all the time. How easy would it be to establish it by just turning over log files for the past few years?

This is not rocket science and you are right, it is not "court". If this was proceeding in court, those past log files would fall under the definition of "relevant" evidence and would be discoverable by an opposing party. The legal definition of "relevant evidence" for discovery purposes is very broad.