Mathematical Proof that English Harbour is cheating

[Vesuvio]

Originally Posted by spearmaster

Lumping me with the lot wasn't exactly a compliment now, was it? Just which way did you expect me to take that?

As a rational human being who wouldn't be offended if I said you weren't an FBI agent or a psychologist specialising in detecting facial expressions! I lumped you with everyone on this board, I'd guess, so don't take it too hard.

Originally Posted by spearmaster

#1. I have the benefit of face-to-face contact - none of you do, and I do not think you are in any position whatsoever to judge whether or not they were bullshitting me.

#2. I know a bullshitter when I see one. I can spot slime a mile away (Meister and Jetset will testify to that when I pointed out Slots Alley last year)

#3. I have the benefit of code in front of me - none of you do, and I do not think you are in any position whatsoever to judge whether or not this code is bogus.

#4. I have been programming for 30 years in various programming languages and I know when something is amiss.

Spearmaster - you must realise that we can't just decide this whole issue on the basis of our trust in your infallibility. We have to have details (ideally provided by EH) and then we can try and assess whether they're convincing or not. That's what people have been doing - and it'd be better if we had coherent explanations of the many weak points in the flaw story than just being told we should trust you on this. I know you've tried to provide some, for which we're grateful, but it's still far from convincing.

Originally Posted by spearmaster

#5. I have been around here actively posting for six years - you OUGHT to be able to judge from this period whether or not I am a bullshitter or whether or not I am the type to call a spade a spade.

How many times does it need to be said? I'm sure you're giving your honest opinion on this matter, but that doesn't make it a fact.

Originally Posted by spearmaster

EH is not responding here because they believe my independent analysis will be better than them coming in here to point out what I am trying to point out when all of you will simply not believe them any more than you are believing me at present.

Again - it's not a matter of belief! They need to provide convincing evidence and coherent explanations. Those still aren't present. I believe you believe they're innocent, but that doesn't get us anywhere.

Originally Posted by spearmaster

You will not give them a fair trial, since you are not giving me a fair trial - so what the hell did you guys expect in the first place?

For the love of God (oops, getting a bit carried away there...) - forget imagining you're on trial! It shouldn't be you in this position, but as it is remember that a fair trial involves two sides, examination, cross-examination, evidence and a final verdict by a jury. It's not one man standing up, giving an opinion and then expecting everyone just to say "good on you, now we know".

Originally Posted by spearmaster

You call this a discussion? You call this not personal?

Yes, with the occasional OTT comments you always get on a forum.

[kengam]

This thread is moving so fast that I didn't even know I was banned and then unbanned. I do not feel that I have said anything that warrants a banning. The pawn reference was how I saw this. English Harbour has had plenty of opportunity to respond on any of the furums. They have chosen silence and was well aware of the defense that was brought forth to the boards by Spearmaster. They get to issue an excuse without having to say it themselves therefore it can be said that Spear was being used as a "pawn" by EH. No character assasination here at all.

[mitch]

Originally Posted by kengam

I I am not asking for help with this issue. I do not want individual attention. I appreciate your offer of mediation, but I have always handled everything myself.

Kengam

This issue of how long EH has had a problem with their VP game is easily resolvable by yourself alone.

Given that your stated betting history is reasonably accurate and not exaggerated in some way then there will be easily enough bets in yours and your teams logs to settle this once and for all. Get your logs from the casino and get someone who is independant, like Grandmaster, to examine them and report on the likelihood of a fair game.

If the Casino refuses that might be seen as significant. Similarly if you refuse the same significance can be drawn.

Mitch

[ftg]

Originally Posted by kengam

This thread is moving so fast that I didn't even know I was banned and then unbanned. I do not feel that I have said anything that warrants a banning. The pawn reference was how I saw this. English Harbour has had plenty of opportunity to repond on any of the furums. They have chosen silence and was well aware of the defense that was brought forth to the boards by Spearmaster. They get to issue an excuse without having to say it themselves therefore it can be said that Spear was being used as a "pawn" by EH. No character assasination here at all.

If I were EH and there was an independant party speaking for me, I would choose to be silent for the time being and see where and what it headed.

[spearmaster]

Originally Posted by kengam

This thread is moving so fast that I didn't even know I was banned and then unbanned. I do not feel that I have said anything that warrants a banning. The pawn reference was how I saw this. English Harbour has had plenty of opportunity to repond on any of the furums. They have chosen silence and was well aware of the defense that was brought forth to the boards by Spearmaster. They get to issue an excuse without having to say it themselves therefore it can be said that Spear was being used as a "pawn" by EH. No character assasination here at all.

They are also aware that I am making comments on my own without asking them - and furthermore I have not exonerated anyone, only posted answers to questions which were asked.

Nevertheless - you can hardly say that I was being used as a pawn - it's not even close, by calling me a pawn you imply that they are controlling my every thought, or post, or whatever - when in fact it's quite the opposite - they are hoping I am going to clear them just as you hope I am going to damn them.

Pawns don't move by themselves. You want to make a better analogy, I am the rope in the tug of war.

[derelict]

I'm afraid some in this thread are confusing disagreement with disrespect (and frankly some should tone it down a little) but considering that these are the Casinomeister forums, I believe everyone here including myself respects the Meister and the mods. That being said, I still disagree with the position of the establishment. Opinions aside, I believe we can agree on some facts.

1. The software developers had code to select playing cards in a non random way.

2. With no errors visible to the player, this code functioned in such a way to interfere with the fair operation of the video poker game.

3. This code was used in the live operation of the VP game and the bonus game was nowhere to be seen.

I believe Spearmaster's opinion is that the bonus game is legit and the offensive code is a non issue. My opinion is that it's a huge issue by virtue of the fact that it made its way into the function of the regular game. I don't believe most casinos employ foolproof QA practices. See iGlobalMedia. I completely understand how some errors can crop up accidentally, but to me as an armchair know nothing that hasn't seen the code, looking at facts and not opinions, this one just seems implausible all around.

Spearmaster, you said before that the bonus game couldn't have been cooked up after the fact as a cover up. But perhaps it could have been written beforehand in anticipation of an audit? Perhaps it was actually being worked on as a feature but abandoned when they realized it was a bonehead idea, and then intentionally made to interface with the regular double game? Maybe not, but IMO not as implausible as the story we're being asked to believe.

Whether hard data has been presented or not, I think even a semi credible accusation combined with the facts of recent events should warrant a more thorough investigation. Kengam, please provide whatever evidence you’ve got. I realize that officially the investigation is still underway, but I frankly get the impression that we’ve seen the last of it. Please prove me wrong.

[Vesuvio]

Originally Posted by mitch

This issue of how long EH has had a problem with their VP game is easily resolvable by yourself alone.

I really don't see why it wouldn't be reasonable for EH to provide the full figures for VP and put this to rest once and for all. Surely they must have audited them themselves by now as there's so much money at stake.

[spearmaster]

Spearmaster - you must realise that we can't just decide this whole issue on the basis of our trust in your infallibility.

Did I ever claim to be infallible?

Give me a WEE bit more credit here... I am NOT the village idiot, I am not Mr Average Joe cheering from the sidelines, I am the guy who has had to do ALL the work (my own fault but that's how it goes) and I think I have a pretty good sense of what I am doing.

Sorry, but I don't accept your explanation this time. As far as I am concerned that was an insult.

[Vesuvio]

Originally Posted by spearmaster

Did I ever claim to be infallible?

Something approaching that - it depends if we interpret "I know" as 100% certainty or not - though I admit there's an element of hyperbole on both sides here.

Originally Posted by spearmaster

...
I know a bullshitter when I see one. I can spot slime a mile away
...
I have been programming for 30 years in various programming languages and I know when something is amiss.

[spearmaster]

Originally Posted by derelict

Spearmaster, you said before that the bonus game couldn't have been cooked up after the fact as a cover up. But perhaps it could have been written beforehand in anticipation of an audit? Perhaps it was actually being worked on as a feature but abandoned when they realized it was a bonehead idea, and then intentionally made to interface with the regular double game? Maybe not, but IMO not as implausible as the story we're being asked to believe.

The code is too sloppy and missing references to have been written beforehand in anticipation of an audit. In fact, the code looks exactly like what I write when I test things LOL.

The code, if it had been abandoned and then intentionally made to interface with regular code, would not have been interfaced in this manner, again because it is sloppy, missing references and looks like test code.

Either of your scenarios would surely have been done in a much more sophisticated way had they intended to plant a bug.

But I already said I was going to stop commenting until I am done - so this is it for now. Either you believe I can tell the difference or you don't - no matter what the final result is, everything will always be open to interpretation so there's really no need to delve any further.