Mathematical Proof that English Harbour is cheating

[suzecat]

Originally Posted by spearmaster

Then that is my fault, because they haven't said a thing, and I've said a lot based on what I have seen and you guys don't believe me.

EH has not ONCE, in any instance, even contacted me to ask me NOT to say anything, or to say anything in their favor, or anything at all except to ask when I am going to be finished with my analysis. You can rest assured that everything that has been said after their statement compensating the players that EVERY single word and opinion has been MINE, and mine alone.

So if you think EH is going to come on board now when you have already locked the door and thrown away the key without a fair trial, then you have another think coming.

Spear, I hope you read this after you have had a restful sleep and very pleasant flight.

Since EH has not bothered to come here and address any of the concerns raised -- and you were willing to (show us the respect we have come to expect) -- then you, as the "messenger" got shot for that. If EH had confronted the problem directly, they would have been blasted with the incredulity of the story they claim instead of you. This thread has been active for too long with nothing being addressed by EH directly. That leads to my belief they have something to hide and are waiting for the storm to clear. I see this thread as "Casino Management 101: What NOT to do."

[ergopro]

Ya, that's what happens when you own OddsOn and claim to be a trusworthy operation without a doubt...
What I mean is..unless there's an explanation, you can't code a C++ code with Java without it colluding

[soflat]

All they had to do was release the log files for 2-3 years, and even everything looked good then I think most people would have believed it was a one-time glitch.

But they only let us see a very small window of data. What is in the rest of logfiles and why don't they want us to see them?

[suzecat]

Just curious, so checked out Oddson's website for RNG seals.
This is what it says, verbatim:

All on line games produced by Odds On Gaming have been audited for fairness of play by an independent third party gaming expert, Mr Michael Shackleford ASA, who's Gaming Audit practice is located in Las Vegas, Nevada.

The results of this ongoing audit indicate that the random number generator is truly random and accordingly, the game play results conform with accepted statistical norms.

To acknowledge this commitment to fairness, the "Certified Fair Gaming" seal has been applied to all games produced by Odds On Gaming

Note: The most recent CFG audit was undertaken in August 2002




Is it the norm to check RNG results on an infrequent basis?

[ergopro]

I'd like to add that I'm terribly sorry for venting and assuming things...but that's the best and most we can do since there hasn't been any kinda information on this issue...I'd like to thank Spear and Wiz and Bryan for handling this thing well but would also like to hear EH's point of view of what's happened completely as I think many ppl here would.
What's making me pissed that I just yesterday learned that one of my friends has been playin at EH quite a bit and was totally unaware of the possible glitch they might have had...but after telling him about this thread he too started questioning the entire operation...Since if one game isn't fair, even just for a small period of time, how can ayone be certain that all other games are..But again, I'm sorry for the venting and assuming stupid things...I'm sure there will be some sort of conclusion for this matter/thread as well

[jetset]

QUOTE: And as for me, I'm in the middle of a 30-hour flight home, but I think that since you guys are NOT willing to listen to an independent analysis, that I am just going to drop the whole damn thing. I would rather get home and sleep soundly on the plane than worry about what knife you are going to pull out next.

That's it. Sorry if I've misled everyone, bothered anyone, let anyone down, whatever, but I have finally lost my patience. I am NOT ever again going to speak up for people who are not willing to keep an open mind and realize that there are two sides to every coin. UNQUOTE

Spear, having myself also just arrived home after 30 or more hours en route I was dismayed (although I could certainly understand the motivation behind it) to read the above from you, and I hope that once you've had a chance to enjoy a shower, a quick forty winks and some family time that you will reconsider.

You are one of the few members here sufficiently trusted and qualified to offer an objective opinion on this. You have already devoted a considerable amount of your time to this project which you took on voluntarily so that all of us would have facts on which to base our personal decisions on EH's culpability or otherwise here.

I don't think that the regrettable personal remarks aimed at you over the past week or so by a few people should deter you - there will always be those who denigrate genuine efforts such as your own, but I am confident that there are probably more of us who are interested in your informed opinion on this as a signpost for their own final and personal decision on EH.

IMO the lack of public statements by EH on this is deplorable, and it is made doubly so by the fact that you have been left out there as a target when all you are guilty of is trying to approach a serious issue in an even-handed and intelligent manner.

Well, I join others here in saluting your effort thus far and hope you will stay focused on the facts and see this one through to the end. I would hope that your final report is open to the Wiz and to another independent expert like Grandmaster, because there will undoubtedly be some who will attack its credibility.

[thelawnet]

Originally Posted by jetset

Well, I join others here in saluting your effort thus far and hope you will stay focused on the facts and see this one through to the end. I would hope that your final report is open to the Wiz and to another independent expert like Grandmaster, because there will undoubtedly be some who will attack its credibility.

My understanding is that Grandmaster has not been given access to any code with which to check what English Harbour have said.

[maxlevine]

Spear, I second Jetset. I went through this whole thread and am very interested in your findings. I wish you would keep at it. I would also like to know if the coding creates the same effect as dealing seconds.

Max

[tronk]

i'm no geek but i have followed most of this thread. It seems that spearmaster has come into the firing line from taking on this thankless task. Its IMHO ridiculous that EH have not shown face at any time (apart from issuing a brief statement on the problem and offering compensation) Clearly by the amount of attention this thread has received you would think something else would be said by them.

(btw cryingbaby? why would you thank spearmaster for saying he will no longer help again like this )

Ultimately i believe EH's negiglence to contribute here has put spear in the firing line. Its obviously EH prerogative whether they choose to come forward on public message boards. Im only saying that from a players perspective it doesn't look good.

Not having a grasp on the dynamics of programming, the code etc, im personally interseted more in whether this has been something that has happened before, and of course EH's own explanation rather than an outsiders attempts to put the jigsaw together. But thankyou spearmaster for what you have tried to do so far!!!

[Casinomeister]

Originally Posted by spearmaster

Then that is my fault, because they haven't said a thing, and I've said a lot based on what I have seen and you guys don't believe me. So I will take responsibility for laying out an unbelievable scenario and you guys can just ignore anything I say in the future because you believe that I am not telling the truth.

EH has not ONCE, in any instance, even contacted me to ask me NOT to say anything, or to say anything in their favor, or anything at all except to ask when I am going to be finished with my analysis. You can rest assured that everything that has been said after their statement compensating the players that EVERY single word and opinion has been MINE, and mine alone.

So if you think EH is going to come on board now when you have already locked the door and thrown away the key without a fair trial, then you have another think coming.

And as for me, I'm in the middle of a 30-hour flight home, but I think that since you guys are NOT willing to listen to an independent analysis, that I am just going to drop the whole damn thing. I would rather get home and sleep soundly on the plane than worry about what knife you are going to pull out next.

That's it. Sorry if I've misled everyone, bothered anyone, let anyone down, whatever, but I have finally lost my patience. I am NOT ever again going to speak up for people who are not willing to keep an open mind and realize that there are two sides to every coin.

I don't blame Ted for feeling this way. Nowadays, it seems whenever a casino issue appears, there are groups of posters who are have the blinders on - they have that tunnel-vision thing going. Casinos will cheat at every chance they get.

This has been the problem from the git-go on this one. The flaw was discovered, and this thread began to go to hell in a hand basket. Spearmaster took the bull by the horns, and jumped in with both feet. He did this totally on his own account and expense. I cannot fathom why anyone in his right mind would chastise his undertaking, or jeopardise it with insults and insinuations. A thankless and thoughtless lot you are (if the shoe fits, wear it). I don't blame Spear throwing his arms up in exasperation and saying "fuck it".

I spent a lot of time with Spear last week, and I joined him and the EH people for a meeting last week as well. At this point, it doesn't matter what I think or what I have to say, because most everyone has made up their minds on this whole scenario anyway.

For the record, I have never ever been an affiliate of EH. There is no monetary bias here. And even if I was being paid, roguing or removing someone from the site makes no difference to me. If I feel someone has done something seriously wrong, players deserve to be warned. Simple as that. If a casino doesn't meet my standards, it's adios. Lest we forget, I've dropped a number of casinos off of the site for various meanderings into the dark side. The last biggie was Fortune Lounge for their spam campaign. I removed them mainly because we have a differing philosophy on how to market one's casino. No one is exempt from removal.

With this said, I hope that the majority can make decisions on their own without jumping on band wagons, or grabbing pitchforks and torches.

As insinuated elsewhere, I don't side with casinos or software providers because it's bad for industry not to. That's total bullshit, and those who feel this way need to take their blinders off, and pull their head out of their ass. I think it's good for the industry when casinos are scrutinized, or brought forth to be hammered on to a cross for screwing over players. But like Spiderman was told, with great power comes great responsibility. I try my damnedness to be fair as possible - and this can be tough sometimes when you have to put bits and pieces together. Gut instincts and "peripheral knowledge" comes into play.

People make mistakes - it's a fact of life. Get over it. This was one of the topics I covered during my presentation on Online Casino Management on day two at the GIGSE. There are certain things to do if you make a mistake - one is to admit the mistake and take 100% accountability - then apologize.

What not to do: Deny everything and make counter-accusations. This was taught to me as a young US Army paratrooper (when caught by superiors or by enemy forces) - but in cyberland - this doesn't work so well (Joyland and Indio casino spring instantly to mind).

So, was the EH software thing a bonehead error, or intended to cheat the players? Well, when we are talking about "intent" this is a really difficult thing to deal with because we cannot see inside the person's head who overwrote the wrong files on the server. We have to take in a lot of peripheral knowledge - things we know about the people running the company, the history of the firm, how they have handled other issues, how they reacted to the discovery, etc., etc.

Their reaction to the discovery has a lot of weight IMO. I think about other software providers being caught cheating (doesn't happen to often). CasinoOnAir - their immediate reaction was to try and sue anyone who dissed them. Elka Systems - remained quiet. And when I rogue these kind of operations, I'm much more in jeopardy because no one knows what these people are capable of.

Many other software companies or casinos that experienced problems - (I won't call it cheating, because I don't think the intention was there; it was buggy, glitchy, human error, whatever) either ignored the problem (iGlobalMedia), or "denied everything and made counter-accusations" (Joyland).

In looking at the EH situation, I have to go with gut instinct and my "peripheral" knowledge since I was not there when it happened. Was this an honest screwup? Or an intention to screw players? Well - from what I can go by, I would say it was human error. I haven't seen any evidence to make me state otherwise. Would it be fair toss someone into the rogue pit for making a human error? No. It would devalue the rogueness of the rogues - we would all be in jeopardy if this was the case.

I - like you - are still waiting for the final word from Spear, M. Shackleford, and the Grandmaster on their final findings. These people, in my opinion, are qualified to give "expert" opinions on this.

And you need to rely on your own instincts and peripheral knowledge to agree or disagree on whatever I have to say. You can choose to trust me when I say "trust me," or you can choose to have a "meister" hate-fest - whatever.