Mathematical Proof that English Harbour is cheating

[kengam]

why have we not had a statement from English Harbour? Spear, I am going to be frank here and I hope I don't insult you. You are using terms such as "comedy of errors" and sloppy programming. I am not sure you are capable of interpreting this code. It shouldn't be so complex that it causes you to be "fuzzy" and hard to think clearly. I do not feel comfortable with the interpreting of this code in your hands. Let it be analyzed by someone more familiar with gaming code or no one at all. I know that is probably out of the question but I thought it needed to be said.

You say there was no evidence of past cheating to be concerned with the numbers of years past. Alrighty then. Sure, I understand, they couldn't be so corrupt as to have cheated in the past now could they? You are giving them WAY too much benefit of the doubt and I am afraid you are going more than overboard to protect their name. A cheat was exposed. EH denied it. You are analyzing code that EH sent you. If they were cheating with this code would they have sent you it? I am interested in past numbers. I am interested if the Wiz ever audited this specific double up game in the past. Nothing I have read has told me that he has. He also has not repsonded to this question.

I am sorry Spear, but I think you are way out of your league in trying to interpret this code and you are taking chances on your evaluation. You are also taking chances on your integrity as you are WAY too quick to defend this outfit who was caught cheating.

[spearmaster]

With all due respect, Kengam, I am probably more qualified than anyone else here in interpreting code - since a lot of the code I have written in the past involves various gambling applications.

But you cannot interpret code without having certain parameters set out first. It is not complex, nor fuzzy, but it still requires time to analyze. And keep in mind I am certainly not spending 24 hours a day on it, not that it would require such - I do have a life, and I do have jetlag, and I do have other things that take time.

I need to get information in order to do a proper analysis - and I do not plan on rushing anything out just to satisfy the few detractors who think I'm fiddling while EH is on fire. You guys can scream all you like and attack my integrity but as you can see I am not worried.

Surely there must be a reason for that?

[kengam]

why are you not worried?


maybe you haven't been burned by them in the past. I have. Others have been burned as well. I feel English harbour owes us an updated statement.

[spearmaster]

Originally Posted by kengam

why are you not worried?

Because I don't have anything to hide in the first place. The objective here is based on truth, not emotion.

maybe you haven't been burned by them in the past. I have. Others have been burned as well. I feel English harbour owes us an updated statement.

I feel you will be seeing statements shortly - but I am not the person to ask for a timeframe, other than perhaps for my own statement.

Being burnt in the past - believe you me, I have been burnt in the past by a total nincompoop in management at EH who has long since left the scene. I don't hold any more fondness for EH than you do.

But I am still after the truth and I am otherwise on good terms with their management even though I haven't promoted them in a long time. So if the opportunity presents itself to get to the bottom of this situation, I see no reason not to get involved.

This is really all I want to say at the moment. I'm sorry that you've felt burnt in the past - but if you cannot substantiate that with any data you surely cannot expect me or anyone else to follow that up.

[kengam]

Spear, if you want data to substantiate my claim then ask them for the numbers on the double up game over the past 3 years.

I doubt that they would provide them. The results would be damning.

[spearmaster]

As the plaintiff, it should be incumbent on you to provide this data. If courts or law officials were to receive complaints from people which require the the accused to provide all data nothing would ever get solved in this world... LOL...

[kengam]

Originally Posted by spearmaster

As the plaintiff, it should be incumbent on you to provide this data. If courts or law officials were to receive complaints from people which require the the accused to provide all data nothing would ever get solved in this world... LOL...

Get real Spearmaster. They are the ones with the data. If this were the real world their logs would be subpoenaed. Do you think there is Zero chance that they have used this buggy software code before? Why believe them that it only occurred during that 2 week timeframe?

[spearmaster]

You have not substantiated your claim in any manner, no recorded results, no logs. All you are doing is crying wolf.

If you had recorded your results, or kept your logs, we wouldn't be debating this at all. Without any evidence whatsoever, who in the world is going to proceed?

[AceMan76]

As the plaintiff, it should be incumbent on you to provide this data. If courts or law officials were to receive complaints from people which require the the accused to provide all data nothing would ever get solved in this world... LOL...

I really think you are losing sight of this problem. You are applying a litigation context to this issue that is not necessary. If EH takes a litigation posture, then so be it, but they do not have to. I completely disagree that worried customers should be compared to "plaintiffs".

There is irrefutable mathematical evidence that EH offered an unfair game. IMO, the burden has now shifted to EH to offer credible and compelling evidence that they are a fair company. For most people, that would include disclosure of past game logs. From a customer service POV, treating your customers like "plaintiffs" is ridiculous.

If the "truth" is the real goal here, then why not full disclosure of the past three years of VP game logs?

[spearmaster]

Originally Posted by AceMan76

I really think you are losing sight of this problem. You are applying a litigation context to this issue that is not necessary. If EH takes a litigation posture, then so be it, but they do not have to. I completely disagree that worried customers should be compared to "plaintiffs".

My choice of words might not have been so good... LOL... but the fact remains that unless you can provide some substantiation or evidence of something amiss at a particular point in time, it makes no sense to go and investigate. None of us have the time to jump at every request to check to see if a game or casino was rigged at any time in the past.

There is irrefutable mathematical evidence that EH offered an unfair game.

Agreed.

IMO, the burden has now shifted to EH to offer credible and compelling evidence that they are a fair company.

Sort of agreed.

For most people, that would include disclosure of past game logs. From a customer service POV, treating your customers like "plaintiffs" is ridiculous.

Completely disagree. The next thing you know other operations will be subjected to calls that all bonus offerings be checked in case they made a bad offer in the past.

If you can't show a good reason, don't expect any assistance.

If the "truth" is the real goal here, then why not full disclosure of the past three years of VP game logs?

Because it is not relevant to the issue at present. Just because Kengam jumped in with an assertion that he feels the game might not have been random in the past does not mean that this was a fact - and furthermore, he provides zero data to substantiate his claim.

You may disagree - in which case, try filing a complaint with someone else and see what they would do in the same situation. Or put the shoes on your own feet - you did not meet the terms and conditions of the last bonus you paid, deliberately or unintentionally. Should the casino then force you to prove that in every previous instance where you received a bonus, you provide proof that you met the terms and conditions?