Mathematical Proof that English Harbour is cheating

[caruso]

Actually, this was an excellent move by English Harbour.

The last case of proven cheating, Casino Bar, was moving into the annals of history, and with all the "verification" stamps on casino websites these days, one is lulled into an extremely errant sense of security.

"They don't cheat because they don't need to. I mean, there's a house edge, right?"

LMAO.

Good one, English Harbour. This was just the wake up call players needed.

1) They can cheat. Proven.

2) They have cheated. Proven.

3) They're still cheating. Proven.

Even now, eleven years into the business, "big" casino groups run cheating software.

I hope the major providers NEVER contemplate a stunt like this. It would cost them big time if they were caught.

All online games produced by Odds On Gaming have been audited for fairness of play by an independent third party gaming expert, Mr Michael Shackleford ASA, who's Gaming Audit practice is located in Las Vegas, Nevada.

The results of this ongoing audit indicate that the random number generator is truly random and accordingly, the game play results conform with accepted statistical norms.

To acknowledge this commitment to fairness, the "Certified Fair Gambling" seal has been applied to all games produced by Odds On Gaming
Note: The most recent CFG audits are undertaken on a monthly basis

http://www.englishharbour.com/seal.php

"monthly" basis?

Hopefully he'll be addressing this.

[spearmaster]

The Wiz stopped providing CFG seals/services some time ago - so this text is extremely old, not to mention the fact that Odds On ceased to exist sometime last year.

A housecleaning is definitely in order.

[sirius]

English Harbour were acquired in December 2005 by Leisure and Gaming PLC (VIP group). It seems only their Odds On sites were cheating (but obviously the software is now suspect for all) so it was probably something to to with this new company. I think Odds On still exist but their new software platform is called Vegas Technology.

It is even worse if these casinos are showing the Certified Fair Gaming Seal without any audits taking place. Even though they are a very bad idea and misleading, I don't think Wiz would let them show the seal without the audits taking place so I can only assume they still are taking place. The English Harbour site actually says the audits are 'ongoing' and quite recently when Fire and Ice etc. were launched they had a press release about Wiz certifying them as fair with these seals (even though they probably hadn't been going for a month even).

[spearmaster]

Well, I'm willing to be wrong here - the last time I talked to Michael, I am sure he said he was no longer going to provide CFG services. But he may have decided to continue.

The Odds On site does still exist, so presumably they are still providing services to other customers. But I am unsure as to whether or not they are connected to Vegas Technology, despite what you may be seeing elsewhere.

Oh, and btw, Caruso, "cheat" has not been proven. Not that I'm all that inclined to disagree, but it *is* possible there was a glitch which caused these results, or even possibly, albeit remotely, that there was nothing wrong with the software and various players just happened to catch bad runs.

If you have proof, of course you're welcome to present it. Otherwise, we'll just go on the evidence shown here in this thread that something definitely does not look right but we don't know why.

Strong suspicions of a non-random game? You can bet your mammy on that...

[mikepipe]

Only one remark:
Jeessus!
Reading some of the new threads (especially this one) these days is even more exciting than gambling itself!
Wot a great forum! thanks to all of you and to the MEISTER for having built and won such a community.

[thelawnet]

Originally Posted by spearmaster

Well, I'm willing to be wrong here - the last time I talked to Michael, I am sure he said he was no longer going to provide CFG services. But he may have decided to continue.

The Odds On site does still exist, so presumably they are still providing services to other customers. But I am unsure as to whether or not they are connected to Vegas Technology, despite what you may be seeing elsewhere.

Oh, and btw, Caruso, "cheat" has not been proven. Not that I'm all that inclined to disagree, but it *is* possible there was a glitch which caused these results, or even possibly, albeit remotely, that there was nothing wrong with the software and various players just happened to catch bad runs.

No, that is not possible.

522 wins out of 1537 trials has according to Excel a zero chance of occurrence. Of course it is non-zero, but the number is so small, Excel cannot calculate it. The best it can do is for 617 wins, when the possibility is

0.0000000000000019

So the fact that the software was cheating is a fact as anything can be.

[soflat]

Originally Posted by thelawnet

No, that is not possible.

522 wins out of 1537 trials has according to Excel a zero chance of occurrence. Of course it is non-zero, but the number is so small, Excel cannot calculate it. The best it can do is for 617 wins, when the possibility is

0.0000000000000019

So the fact that the software was cheating is a fact as anything can be.

It was definitely not a random (fair) game.

We just don't know for sure if they were deliberately cheating or not (unless you can calculate that with Excel too).

[Casinomeister]

Man, this is one hell of a thread to tackle - especially if most of your math related brain cells are fried like mine

Nevertheless, I just gave M. Shackelford a call - no one home - so I popped him off an email to see if he can fill us in on what's up with Oddson and the certification. He's a member of the forum, so perhaps he'll be able to jump in here and give us an expert opinion on this whole thing.

On thing I'm very concerned about is the certification. If it's not happening, (like it's posted on the casinos' website) I won't be a happy camper.

[Simmo!]

Originally Posted by soflat

It was definitely not a random (fair) game.

We just don't know for sure if they were deliberately cheating or not (unless you can calculate that with Excel too).

Soflat is right. You may feel "cheated", it looks *very* suspicious, and it wasn't a random game. But the fact is we can only speculate as to why this came about. Yes it's incredibly fishy, but if you took this to a court of law claiming it was a deliberate "cheat" with the "proof" presented in this thread, you'll be in there for about 10 minutes. At best you'll get a ruling that it was an unfair game, but even then, do we know that EH state the gamble is supposed to be 50/50? Or have we just assumed that? (no, I really don't know)

Issues like this require a balanced view, not an emotional one, if they are to be taken anywhere. That's no sleight on you TLN, as I think this is one of the most interesting threads in a long time, and for me personally, I won't be playing here.

[caruso]

Originally Posted by spearmaster

Oh, and btw, Caruso, "cheat" has not been proven. Not that I'm all that inclined to disagree, but it *is* possible there was a glitch which caused these results, or even possibly, albeit remotely, that there was nothing wrong with the software and various players just happened to catch bad runs.

This is categorically NOT a freak run, remotely possible. If I've read those decimal places correctly - and the only reason it's hard is there are so many zeros - then the probability is similar to the probablility of being dealt 11 consecutive blackjacks. I would guess that noone in the history of blackjack has ever witnessed such an event:

522 wins out of 1537 hands = 0.0000000000000019

11 consecutive blackjacks = 0.0000000000000035

...both of which are around the one in five hundred trillion mark.

In context: if you played 10 hands of video poker a minute for 95 million years, you would achieve a sample size big enough to "expect" an event like this.

So it'd be fair to say this was no "freak run".