Main Street Group confusing terms!

[CROGO]

In January I played at two casinos that I now know are owned by the main street group:
lasvegasusacasino.com and
diamonddealcasino.com

Before depositing, I read the T+C’s at each. I am a US citizen who has been working outside of the US in the global economy. I had some British pounds and I wanted to check that it was OK to deposit with them. (Some casinos penalize players for this, but I wasn’t earning US dollars at the time.) The T+C’s made no reference to a problem with depositing in GBP. I then looked at the Banking page. On both of these casinos the top of the banking page read:
“Making Deposits
We accept deposits in any currency. Player accounts are tracked in US dollars so deposits made in currencies other than US dollars will be converted at the current bank exchange rate.”
(They both still do):
http://lasvegasusacasino.com/banking.php
http://www.diamonddealcasino.com/cashier.php

So I thought, no problem. I’ll deposit in pounds and they will convert them into US dollars. I played at each, one at a time.

I set up an account at LasVegasUSAcasino. I was given a choice of currency. I assumed that the money was all getting converted into US dollars, so a selected “GBP” to indicate I was depositing in pounds. I expected it would be converted into $100 (US), since the banking page clearly states this is the procedure. Instead they took 100 GBP. I played with it, was awarded a bonus and cashed out 283 GBP.

Without knowing DiamondDealcasino was part of the same group, I also opened up an account there. Same thing, only I didn’t claim a bonus there. I deposited what I thought was $100 (US) only to find 100 GBP were deducted from my bank account. I withdrew 213 GBP.

When I went to check my bank account, I realized they had shorted me:
Of the 283 GBP withdrawn at LasVegasUSAcasino they only paid 268 GBP
Of the 213 GBP withdrawn at DiamondDealcasino they only paid 199 GBP
(It was a little hard to see this at first because they recredit in two steps, each less than the full withdrawl.)

When I called to complain they told me that the because I wasn’t a British citizen they had charged me 5% fee for cashing out. They told me this was in their T+C’s. It is not listed under the T+C’s. What I did find is at the very bottom of the banking page under “Overnight Express” they state:
"All players using € (EURO) outside the Eurozone (12 countries in which euro is the official currency) or £(Great Britain Pound) outside the United Kingdom will be charged an additional 5% fee on every approved withdrawal request up to a maximum fee of €500 or £500."
I never requested an overnight express payment, so I don’t understand how this fee could apply. ESPECIALLY SINCE THIS IS CONTRARY TO THE CLEAR WORDING AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE THAT ALL DEPOSITS ARE CONVERTED INTO US DOLLARS!! So according to their banking page, I deposited 100 GBP. They then converted that into US Dollars. Then they converted it back to GBP for me to play with. When I went to cashout they charged me a 5% fee for all of this currency conversion, which I never requested.

I talked with several people on the phone and got nowhere. I realize the amount in dispute is not great, 15 GBP and 4 GBP, but it still annoys me. I have been busy, and it appears that the 60 day window for complaining to Playtech has passed. (And Brian was not available when this happened in January.) But I think everyone should see the DECEIT that the Main Street group is practicing. Despite the fact that I wanted to wager in US dollars, I am now unable to open another account with them, and they refused to convert the existing accounts to US dollars, as the banking section clearly states they would do. Frankly, I’ll take my business elsewhere. I hope everyone here does the same.

[Simmo!]

Phew- long post

From all that, it seems the problem here is in the use of "Overnight Express" - whatever that is. Sounds like they paid you in this manner, but you didnt request it in this manner? Is this is a correct summary of the issue?

Cheers

Simmo!

[Sodax77]

removed by sodax77

Thanks Summer! You are the best!

[CROGO]

Originally Posted by Simmo!

Phew- long post

From all that, it seems the problem here is in the use of "Overnight Express" - whatever that is. Sounds like they paid you in this manner, but you didnt request it in this manner? Is this is a correct summary of the issue?

Cheers

Simmo!

No they didn't pay me by "Overnight Express", nor did I request payment in this manner. In each case I received two seperate payments over several days:
4 days between payments at LasVegasUSA and
2 days between payments at DiamondDeal

There was nothing express about it. (And the above is just between the payments, not counting the fact that the withdrawal request was put in a few days before the first payment!) They are just very, very, sneaky.

I am shocked that Brian has them on his approved list.

Yeah, it is a long post, but its not a simple problem like I wasn't paid. It is much more deceptive. Yes, they paid me something, but it wasn't everything they owed me. The house has a high enough edge without charging an extra 5% on WITHDRAWAL requests.

That is robbery!

I guess they must need the money more than I do, huh?

[schankwart]

Main Street is an absolute no-go for me!

A few months ago I thought to give them a try and made some deposits across their Casinos to see what they are all about these days. Another few weeks later I requested a small bonus to be credited in one of my accounts and got the strangest excuse ever.... They refused to credit me the promotional funds after I had already deposited, giving the "reason" that I had purchased too much for the promotion!

Had they not brought up this absolute nonsense with me chances were that I would still be making decent deposits with them now. This matter however made it quite clear to me that they apparently are not interested in a good relation with their (higher depositing) players, especially after my message to the manager got ignored as well. Perhaps I should have played some more Slots but VP?

I am not mad about that they did not credit me with the bonus but about the way they explained it. It is obvious that they just wanted to find a reason not to honor the promotion. bleh

While the bonus actually was just of a small amount, this issue stole my trust in their outfit completely, as I read various other complaints about them in the forums before as well.

[soflat]

I looked at the banking page and the 5% fee is mentioned below the Overnight Express paragraph, but (to me) it does not look like they meant for the 5% to apply only to overnight express.

I do agree the cashier page is overly confusing, expecially the part about converting currencies (why do they have to convert to USD if you can play in GBP anyways?).

Interesting, they also require players to wager 5X their deposit or else incur processing fees - that reminds of that thread where people were upset about a 1x playthru requirement.

[spearmaster]

It doesn't make any sense for them to charge 5% only on overnight express unless they are trying to cover express fees as well - but that 500 limit is outrageous.

Nevertheless, I think somewhere along the line they must have misunderstood something. I do agree that 5% for any reason is crap, but on the other hand it is in their terms and conditions.

For the 19 pounds you lost, I really think Main Street Group ought to refund that - but also, I think it may not be worth the hassle to you to go through all the BS. You cashed out a winner (if I am not mistaken) - and even with the 19 pounds removed you are still a winner - so what I would probably do if I were in your shoes is just eat the 19 pounds and never play there again.

If they were smart - they'd refund it because 19 quid is definitely not worth the potential loss of business.

[vinylweatherman]

While in the T & C, I cannot see how this type of malarkey with currency exchanges is allowed for an outfit in Bryan's Accredited list.
Can they justify this charge based on increased processing costs, or is this a veiled way of insulting certain players by charging a "fraud risk insurance premium" on a certain class of player to cover the instances when they lose out to real fraud. If they are prepared to lightly "screw" one class of player, how can they be trusted not to spread the net wider in the future and catch a few more players out with this?

I would like Bryan to consider not accepting casinos that have these little "traps" buried in their T & C that seek to discriminate against honest players. I don't think this 5% is applied just to winners, it adds another 5% to the house edge on withdrawal, and this dwarfs the house edge on most of the non-slot games. I am wary of any outfits that seek to treat the Pound in this manner, for whatever reason.
I saw this with Grand Privvy, and it turned out to be a sneaky way of banning us Brits, but they didn't want to be up front and say so, they invented all sorts of T & C to make it hard for us to play under the same rules as other players. Even now they won't "call a spade a spade" and say we are banned. They have 2 separate terms, but both together effectively make it impossible for us to participate in the Grand Privvy experience, we can only deposit and play a "plain vanilla" MG casino.

Grand Privvy - that's a load of crap

[soflat]

Originally Posted by vinylweatherman

I would like Bryan to consider not accepting casinos that have these little "traps" buried in their T & C that seek to discriminate against honest players. I don't think this 5% is applied just to winners, it adds another 5% to the house edge on withdrawal, and this dwarfs the house edge on most of the non-slot games. I am wary of any outfits that seek to treat the Pound in this manner, for whatever reason.

A lot of casinos prohibit folks from playing in GBP unless they are GB residents. That is because bonus hunters use GBP to get a larger bonus.

If I understand it correctly, Main Street is actually allowing anyone to use GBP, which is pretty nice of them in this day.

Since the 5% is applied only to withdrawals, that does not add 5% to the house edge unless you cashed in an amount larger than your total wagers. In most cases (where a player wagers a large amount in proportion to the cash-in), the house edge is affected by a much smaller amount.

[vinylweatherman]

In the above case a player is being paid in GBP, so surely they would want to play in the currency they have available. This is not playing the "pound edge", and should not be penalised. Playing the "pound edge" would be depositing from a dollar bank/card account but playing in GBP and taking the currency conversion hit as a cost of taking a GBP bonus.
This fee should not be "buried" either, this player should have been informed up front by CS before he played so that he could change his mind about playing. The internet has no borders, so why should it matter if a player works long term away from his own country and wants to play online while doing so. he would find it very hard to use a US bank or card anyway, as they don't allow casino transactions so I see using his GBP accounts as the only way.
I play in GBP, not because of the "pound edge", but because I would suffer erosion each time I deposited and withdrew due to currency exchange fees that most bakns and cards, and even Neteller, charge. These could actually approach the 5% level.

A better term would be to state that players in GBP must deposit from an account (bank, card, Neteller) that is itself denominated in GBP. This will stop the bonus players, but would not catch out those with "unusual" working circumstances. People working away from home are probably good customers to encourage, as they are probably away from family and friends, and have more leisure time to spend on such solitary activity. They are also probably wealthier than most, as the main reason people work away from home is a better salary, or being in a senior position (with expenses for working away to match).

Perhaps one day the UK will adopt the Euro, and all this will go away.