Main Street Group confusing terms!

[soflat]

Originally Posted by vinylweatherman

In the above case a player is being paid in GBP, so surely they would want to play in the currency they have available. This is not playing the "pound edge", and should not be penalised. Playing the "pound edge" would be depositing from a dollar bank/card account but playing in GBP and taking the currency conversion hit as a cost of taking a GBP bonus.

I agree, he was probably not after the poud edge, but the rule is in place to discourage people from exploiting the pound edge. In other words, I think the player just got caught up in a rule meant to penalize other players.

I feel the rule is fairly divulged, although it could be done better.

Restricting players to certain currencies based on geographic location is up to the casino, and I don't see why they should be removed from the accredited list for it. Afterall, many reputable casinos have such rules.

[Cynthia777]

Sometimes I have to wonder if the specific dealings with a particular casino in a group and the group itself can vary. Not to veer off of the specific top of the threader's post, but while we are on the topic of Main Street Group, I had a very positive experience with Slots.com (one of their casinos), but the thing that I find a catch-22 with them is their promotion of getting an extra $20 free bonus when you send them your scanned documents, but, one of the requirements of getting this is having deposited via credit card, and we all know how difficult it is getting a deposit through via this method.

[jetset]

Quote: Sometimes I have to wonder if the specific dealings with a particular casino in a group and the group itself can vary.UNQUOTE

I think this is a good point. Although several brands may feed into a particular group ownership's admin set-up, it is possible to have brand managers calling the front-line shots at the individual casinos, especially in the bigger groups.

I think we have to guard against forming too much of a one-sided, negative perception of the industry as a whole in this particular section, which is devoted to individual beefs against online casinos. To keep a sense of perspective, the more established of these venues are dealing with thousands if not tens of thousands of transactions from a very large number of players on a daily basis, and the average percentage of complaints in relation to total business transacted is probably very small.

I take the point that even one complaint is one too many, and needs to be fairly addressed, but the realist in me tells me that it is too easy to develop an unbalanced general perception from a concentrated reading of negative posts involving the (probably) fairly small percentage of savvy online players who use the fora.

That's certainly not intended to decry the value of exchanging information on bad experiences, because that helps the players obtain justice or avoid rip-offs...and it also serves to focus the casinos' attention on bad practice in need of improvement and its business consequences.

Regarding Main Street Group, unless there have been changes lately this outfit is headed by Marty Jensen, an experienced RTG operator who with fellow investors bought The Prescription a couple of years ago. Marty and his group had their (bad) moments several years ago, but to my knowledge there have been few complaints against this operation in more recent times.

[Vesuvio]

Just a few things which strike me as odd from your first post:

Originally Posted by CROGO

I assumed that the money was all getting converted into US dollars, so a selected “GBP” to indicate I was depositing in pounds. I expected it would be converted into $100 (US), since the banking page clearly states this is the procedure. Instead they took 100 GBP. I played with it, was awarded a bonus and cashed out 283 GBP.

If you were taking their terms literally wouldn't you deposit £57 or so if you wanted to play with $100? I can see how the terms could confuse anyone, but as far as I remember Playtech software and especially the cashier makes it very clear which currency you're using (before you deposit).

Originally Posted by CROGO

Without knowing DiamondDealcasino was part of the same group, I also opened up an account there. Same thing, only I didn’t claim a bonus there. I deposited what I thought was $100 (US) only to find 100 GBP were deducted from my bank account. I withdrew 213 GBP.

You then go on to make the same mistake at another casino, despite saying you'd looked at the terms carefully (and must have spotted the similarity)? That, and the strange contradictions of obvious knowledge and apparent naivity in your post, make me assume you're a bonus hunter, though that's fine and there's no need to be coy about it

In any case it's good that you've drawn people's attention to the shady behaviour of having a term at the top of the banking page eliciting play in different currencies & a sting in the tail right at the very bottom. Unfortunately I don't think you have much of a case for recovering the 5% as that term doesn't really appear to be part of the "Overnight Express" section.

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by soflat

I agree, he was probably not after the poud edge, but the rule is in place to discourage people from exploiting the pound edge. In other words, I think the player just got caught up in a rule meant to penalize other players.

I feel the rule is fairly divulged, although it could be done better.

Restricting players to certain currencies based on geographic location is up to the casino, and I don't see why they should be removed from the accredited list for it. Afterall, many reputable casinos have such rules.

I thought this player WAS located and working in the UK when opening his account, but was originally from the states. This had nothing to do with geographic location. I am beginning to suspect that it had something to do with identity documents being issued by the USA, making it look like a player exploiting the pound edge.

Perhaps indeed this term should clarify that it is citizenship and NOT actual current location that determines your "country" when it come to playing online. To make matters worse, other casinos take it the other way, a Hong Kong player denied bonuses by Intercasino was told to play from another country to get bonuses reinstated. With no real standardisation, casinos must be absolutely clear with their terms, and players must remember that there is no such thing as "standard practice", just as there is no requirement for casinos to void WR if the account is zeroed, another source of argument. There are things that most casinos do and some don't; and things that most don't but some do.
Perhaps we should all make the casino wait for our first deposits rather than us acting on impulse. We should interrogate CS, and ask for a precis in writing before we deposit a cent! I am sure this would encourage more clarity and openness in T & C in order to get our money in ASAP.
Allied to this point is the fact that many casinos lie through their teeth when asked to explain the reasoning for what appears to be a silly term. In this case it is a charge to cover the cost of "overnight express". Clearly, in this case this was just total BS, as the funds went by slower means. The fact that an excuse, rather than the truth, is used to explain the deduction is enough to render their reputable status worthy of review.
£500 max charge really shows up the deception. International courier charges the same whatever the amount of a cheque, usually around $30 to $50, and overnight bank wire is a similar amount. If the charge cap was around this amount, I would believe the excuse, but £500 cap is simply a fine dressed up as a charge for services rendered.

[CROGO]

Originally Posted by Vesuvio

Just a few things which strike me as odd from your first post:


If you were taking their terms literally wouldn't you deposit £57 or so if you wanted to play with $100? I can see how the terms could confuse anyone, but as far as I remember Playtech software and especially the cashier makes it very clear which currency you're using (before you deposit).

You then go on to make the same mistake at another casino, despite saying you'd looked at the terms carefully (and must have spotted the similarity)? That, and the strange contradictions of obvious knowledge and apparent naivity in your post, make me assume you're a bonus hunter, though that's fine and there's no need to be coy about it

In any case it's good that you've drawn people's attention to the shady behaviour of having a term at the top of the banking page eliciting play in different currencies & a sting in the tail right at the very bottom. Unfortunately I don't think you have much of a case for recovering the 5% as that term doesn't really appear to be part of the "Overnight Express" section.

I just double checked. It was 125 GBP I deposited at DiamondDealcasino, not 100 GBP. (For some reason I can’t edit the original post now.) What happened was that after I got the first part of the payment from lasvegasusacasino I deposited at DiamondDealcasino. The second part of the payment didn’t come in until a few days later.

Bonus hunter? You can think whatever you want, but if I was only playing for the bonuses why did I only claim a bonus at one casino?

I am not an expert on Playtech software, but I believe that the software used to wager with may be different than the software used for depositing. The software was not clear whether I was depositing $100 (U.S) or 100 GBP. (I now make a point of calling CS about this if it isn’t clear.) Yes, the software did show me playing in pounds, but was I really playing in pounds, or only the equivalent in U.S. dollars? The fundamental problem is that the banking terms clearly stated that all deposits would be converted into US dollars.

When you go into a brick and mortar casino you have to convert into the local currency before you play. (I travel a lot. When every other money changer is closed, the casino will be open to change money!) I understood that they were automatically converting the currency into U.S. dollars when I deposited. This is what the banking page clearly read. They were not “eliciting play in different currencies” as you stated. They were eliciting DEPOSITS in different currencies. If all deposits were to be converted in to dollars then why should anyone be penalized for the casino’s own failure to abide by its own rule?

Thank you VinylWeatherman for agreeing with me. Usually when you read a contract of other legal document you use the headings to group things. In the casinos referred to, the 5% penalty language appears under a bold faced heading for “Overnight Express” and above a bold faced heading “Special General Note”. If it was a general term, it needed to be under the “Special General Note”, assuming its OK to not list this penalty under the T+C’s for the casino. By hiding this language, and it was HIDDEN under the “Overnight Express”, the logical interpretation is that the 5% penalty only applied if you chose the “Overnight Express” payment AND you requested a payout in pounds. (And how could I know at the time of depositing that playing with GBP’s was an option, since the banking terms clearly stated all deposits would be converted to US dollars?) I neither requested “Overnight Express” payment nor did I receive it, and I would have been quite happy to receive payment in U.S. dollars. The decision to pay this out in pounds was theirs, not mine.

To Spearmaster: I don’t believe this was a misunderstanding. I feel this is a deliberate strategy to penalize people who are not UK citizens but deposit in pounds. If the casinos want to regulate currency deposits, OK, but they need to be open about it. The reality is they are playing “Gotcha” here. They are hiding the ball here. Yes, I made a profit here, but if I had deposited through a credit card and then disputed only 10% do you think the casino would put me on a blacklist, or do you think they would say, “Oh well he paid most of the bill”?

[soflat]

I thought this player WAS located and working in the UK when opening his account, but was originally from the states. This had nothing to do with geographic location. I am beginning to suspect that it had something to do with identity documents being issued by the USA, making it look like a player exploiting the pound edge.

The player never said he was in the UK, only that he had some GBPs. As far as we know he was in the USA or, if he was elsewhere, then he might have given a USA address during sign-up.

There are a number of things that were not mentioned (like why did he sign up and play at another casino without a sign-up bonus?).

[spearmaster]

Originally Posted by CROGO

To Spearmaster: I don’t believe this was a misunderstanding. I feel this is a deliberate strategy to penalize people who are not UK citizens but deposit in pounds.

What I meant was that support must have misunderstood something. It makes no sense to penalize people who are not UK citizens but deposit in pounds - income is income, the more you deposit, the more they make.

If the casinos want to regulate currency deposits, OK, but they need to be open about it. The reality is they are playing “Gotcha” here. They are hiding the ball here. Yes, I made a profit here, but if I had deposited through a credit card and then disputed only 10% do you think the casino would put me on a blacklist, or do you think they would say, “Oh well he paid most of the bill”?

Which is why I don't buy this currency excuse from any casino. That being said - eat the 19 and never go back. You don't want all the hassle associated with recovering such a small amount of money - or do you?

[sripal32]

Could your problem be associated with Exchange Rate commissions?

I get into these problems when I try to get cash through Neteller Credit Card. I have a US Neteller account and whenever I try to withdraw some cash, they convert it to Canadian Dollars (and charge 2 dollars for it along with less than market value for exchange rates) and when I try to withdraw cash from the neteller card, it short changes me again.

In your case, I tend to believe that the following statement could be the source of the problem. (Or atlease I hope so)

'Player accounts are tracked in US dollars so deposits made in currencies other than US dollars will be converted at the current bank exchange rate.'

The sell rate and buy rate differs

Cheers!
Sri

[vinylweatherman]

I have had a good look at the banking page. It seems very detailed, and makes it clear that all play and wins are in dollars, and deposits in other currencies will be converted into dollars.

On withdrawal, the following aplies:-

All players using € (EURO) outside the Eurozone (12 countries in which euro is the official currency) or £(Great Britain Pound) outside the United Kingdom will be charged an additional 5% fee on every approved withdrawal request up to a maximum fee of €500 or £500.

This simply mentions where you are when you play. If you register with a home address outside the UK, but deposit in pounds, this applies. Although under the overnight express heading, there is a gap which looks like it is a "special general note", but the writer has forgotten to precede this paragraph with this as it has for the others.

There is NO POUND EDGE involved here either, so there would be no benefit in depositing in pounds if you could deposit in dollars. It is possible that the 5% is, in fact, due to exchange rate charges, which a casino would normally cover itself. I suspect they want players to deposit in dollars, but are prepared to "eat" the exchange charges for UK and European players.
Now, if this 5% turns out to be in ADDITION to exchange rate charges, that is too cheeky to be allowed to pass. I think someone with connections should try to get an explanation of what is behind this term, as it isn't "bonus abuse" through currency edge.