Rushmore stole my winnings of 1000$

[joefrom]

Some weeks ago I signed up at rushmore casino via an affiliate who offered a special welcome bonus of 300%. I deposited 250$ via neteller. The bonus was credited so that I had a balance of 1000$ and I played blackjack and some minutes later my balance was 2000$. Suddenly I was disconnected from the casino and the bonus of 750$ and the winnings of 1000$ were removed so that only my deposit of 250$ was left. I talked to the live support rep and he told me that's because one cannot claim bonuses on neteller deposits. I asked him to restore my balance but he refused to do so. I explained to him that his statement that neteller deposits do not attract bonuses does not make sense because I received the bonus on a neteller deposit and nowhere did it say something like one cannot claim bonuses on neteller deposits.

It did not say anything like that on the affiliates site nor on the site set up by Rushmore casino that promoted that special bonus nor on the Rushmore homepage and in the cashier it even said that all deposit methods are allowed once I had entered the bonus code.

So I emailed the support but they refused to give my winnings back to me. The only reason they could come up with was „neteller deposit do not attract bonuses“. A statement that is obviously completely absurd. I asked them some questions like where did it say that neteller is not allowed and who their manager is and if they have got a licence by a licencing authority but they refused to answer these questions. The customer support manager replied that he is the one I shall talk to and that we could talk on the phone about this matter but I do not want to talk on the phone about it because my english is not good enough for that and anyway there would be no point in doing it. And he replied that he would not reply to my emails anymore. How nice. lol

Then I asked Steve Russo of Gamblinggrumbles for help and I posted a complaint on the Askgamblers site but Rushmore ignored both. Well, not surprisingly because it is 100% obvious that I am right and that they are wrong. Steve posted a report about it on his site.

I also asked the affiliate to help me and he tried to do so but Rushmore insisted on stealing my winnings. At least the affiliate posted a warning about Rushmore on his site and he removed the special bonus. There are many complaints about Rushmore on the forums so affiliates should not promote them anymore. And should they not be thrown into the rogue pit of casinomeister? They are notorious for slow paying but there is a big difference between slow paying and stealing the legitimate winnings of 1000$ from a player so the rogue pit is the place where they belong imo.

I know that I could file a complaint via the CDS, the central dispute system of RTG casinos, but afaik they are not helpful at all so I do not do so.

Does someone know if they have got a licence by a licencing authority? Their customer support manager did not want to answer this question.

And does someone know who their manager is? I would like to email him or her. Their customer support manager did not want to reveal this secret either.

Probably I will not be able to recoup my stolen winnings but at least I want to warn the online gaming community of this rogue site in order to prevent that even more players are ripped off by them. Oh and btw I can prove that I am telling the truth because I made screenshots and I have still got all of the emails.

And afaik they do not have a rep on this forum but I will send a link to them suggesting they post a reply here but I am pretty sure they will ignore this complaint like the other ones for obvious reasons lol

Shame on you, Rushmore!

 

[Nifty29]

FYI

The player submitted this complaint at Gambling Grumbles and they ruled in his favor, citing the fact that Rushmore do not have a term stating that Neteller deposits are excluded from promotions, since this was their reason for confiscation.

Unfortunately, GG got it wrong this time around. All Rushmore promotions state clearly which methods are accepted i.e. they do not list what methods are excluded (which is why GG did not find anything).

From the website:

WELCOME BONUS

•This bonus is valid for deposits made using credit card, Moneyline and Moneybooker deposits.

It is a very clear case of the player not checking the terms before they deposit, and the casino is well within their rights to confiscate the winnings and bonus.

Make sure you check the terms every time you take a bonus and you can avoid another unfortunate situation like this.

FWIW it has been common knowledge for a long time (around here at least) that Rushmore do not give bonuses on Neteller deposits, so this is not something they have invented to avoid payment.

 

[same_old]

Agree with Nifty here.

I went to Rushmores home page and clicked on PROMOTIONS.

It is right there at the bottom of the page in CLEAR writing that it is for Moneybooker,Moneyline and credit card only.

 

[rainmaker]

Agree with Nifty here.

I went to Rushmores home page and clicked on PROMOTIONS.

It is right there at the bottom of the page in CLEAR writing that it is for Moneybooker,Moneyline and credit card only.

Yes, I will also join you and Nifty on this one

 

[same_old]

Yes, I will also join you and Nifty on this one

A $1000 lesson learned in this case I guess- he won't be skimming over the T&C's again im sure.

 

[chuchu59]

How Gambling Grumbles handles these issues is strictly their own business as I am sure they have their own code of ethics so I wont comment on whether they are right or wrong.

On this issue, if the bonus is not valid for neteller deposits why would it be given to the op? Naturally, one would expect that if the bonus appeared you can play with it. Even if not, why should play be voided as at least the op had his deposit of $250 to use to gain winnings. It does seem that the casino was just looking for an opportunity to pounce. If the op had lost fine since the bonus is non-cashable anyway. He was winning so they just removed the bonus and winnings using the neteller excuse. I dont think its hard to not give a bonus if an incorrect deposit is used. This is sort of a trap. You give the bonus and if the player loses its great. If he wins the casino confiscates everything but the deposit.

 

[Nifty29]

How Gambling Grumbles handles these issues is strictly their own business as I am sure they have their own code of ethics so I wont comment on whether they are right or wrong.

On this issue, if the bonus is not valid for neteller deposits why would it be given to the op? Naturally, one would expect that if the bonus appeared you can play with it. Even if not, why should play be voided as at least the op had his deposit of $250 to use to gain winnings. It does seem that the casino was just looking for an opportunity to pounce. If the op had lost fine since the bonus is non-cashable anyway. He was winning so they just removed the bonus and winnings using the neteller excuse. I dont think its hard to not give a bonus if an incorrect deposit is used. This is sort of a trap. You give the bonus and if the player loses its great. If he wins the casino confiscates everything but the deposit.

I don't know of any casino that blocks deposits VIA certain methods for certain bonuses....at least RTG ones. Just because the casino allows the deposit to go through, doesn't release the player from their own responsibility to follow the terms. When did you even see a section on RTG coupon details where deposit methods are even mentioned?

A trap? Come on Chu. It is clearly mentioned what the terms are...nothing is hidden. How do you know what they would have done if he was losing? How do you know that it wasn't a regular check that happens every Xx minutes that picked it up? You don't, so its a guess based on nothing.

It doesn't matter how clear or well-defined the terms are, there will always be some saying "the casino ripped them off" or "the casino deliberately put the term there to trap them". I just don't understand....if it is good enough for almost everyone else to take a minute to check the terms of a bonus, then its good enough for the OP.

 

[greasemonkey]

I don't know of any casino that blocks deposits VIA certain methods for certain bonuses....at least RTG ones. Just because the casino allows the deposit to go through, doesn't release the player from their own responsibility to follow the terms. When did you even see a section on RTG coupon details where deposit methods are even mentioned?

A trap? Come on Chu. It is clearly mentioned what the terms are...nothing is hidden. How do you know what they would have done if he was losing? How do you know that it wasn't a regular check that happens every Xx minutes that picked it up? You don't, so its a guess based on nothing.

It doesn't matter how clear or well-defined the terms are, there will always be some saying "the casino ripped them off" or "the casino deliberately put the term there to trap them". I just don't understand....if it is good enough for almost everyone else to take a minute to check the terms of a bonus, then its good enough for the OP.

Actually what makes this case interesting is precisely because rushpod will allow you to put in a coupon code but if you don't use one of the listed deposit methods then no bonus is credited.

The fact that they DID credit the bonus and allow some play means that they SHOULD honor it. If the OP had lost would they have credited his deposit back? No. At the very minimum the OP should have his 250 deposit AND the 1000 in winnings in his account. They should in no way keep any of that part. They do have the ability to not award the bonus to the wrong deposit method. They did. Their fault.

 

[cvbeck]

I'm curious, though - why does it matter that much what the method of deposit is - don't most vendors charge around the same amount as a credit card +-2%? Or is Neteller so egregiously overpriced in their processing fees that the casino can't afford the bonuses and the processing fees?

 

[same_old]

Hi guys,

I see what you are saying but doesn't it make it a moot point if they have these T&C's in place PRIOR to the deposit being made.

I mean come on, I went to the Rushmore site and not even two minutes it took me to see NO NETTELER for bonuses.

 

[Nifty29]

How Gambling Grumbles handles these issues is strictly their own business as I am sure they have their own code of ethics so I wont comment on whether they are right or wrong.

On this issue, if the bonus is not valid for neteller deposits why would it be given to the op? Naturally, one would expect that if the bonus appeared you can play with it. Even if not, why should play be voided as at least the op had his deposit of $250 to use to gain winnings. It does seem that the casino was just looking for an opportunity to pounce. If the op had lost fine since the bonus is non-cashable anyway. He was winning so they just removed the bonus and winnings using the neteller excuse. I dont thintk its hard to not give a bonus if an incorrect deposit is used. This is sort of a trap. You give the bonus and if the player loses its great. If he wins the casino confiscates everything but the deposit.

Hi guys,

I see what you are saying but doesn't it make it a mute point if they have these T&C's in place PRIOR to the deposit being made.

I mean come on, I went to the Rushmore site and not even two minutes it took me to see NO NETTELER for bonuses.

Yes of course it is a moot point.

As I said, it doesn't matter what the facts are, some just always side with the player, usually due to themselves being caught doing something at some point.

The fact is that rushmore do not allow bonuses on neteller deposits and havent for some time. It doesn't matter what the software did or did not do....using greasemonkeys logic, if blackjack is an excluded game, but the software let's you play it, then the rules do not apply. It's just fanciful. I have no love for rushmore believe me, but I do believe in personal responsibility and don't see why people feel they have to be spoonfed when just about everyone else manage just fine.

I've never heard of bonuses not being credited if using a certain method....I assume you would only find out by trying to claim a coupon that you knew you weren't eligible for, wouldn't you?

We can wax lyrical all day, but the OP isn't going to get paid.....and I don't have a problem with that in his case. We also need to remember that the OP had NOT met wagering so there was technically no winnings confiscated, it was all bonus funds.

 

[chuchu59]

OK, even without the bonus he had his own $250 on which to win at BJ. How can the casino prove his winnings were derived from the bonus and not his own deposit.

 

[Nifty29]

OK, even without the bonus he had his own $250 on which to win at BJ. How can the casino prove his winnings were derived from the bonus and not his own deposit.

Once the bonus was credited the $250 was not his at all....it was subject to WR along with the bonus amount, so it was impossible for him to "win with his own deposit"....in fact, the RTG classifies the deposit as part of bonus funds once a coupon is added.

It's really clutching at straws there Chu.

 

[joefrom]

Stop. you are wrong, folks. please read one more time what I posted:

Some weeks ago I signed up at rushmore casino via an affiliate who offered a special welcome bonus of 300% ... and nowhere did it say something like one cannot claim bonuses on neteller deposits.

It did not say anything like that on the affiliates site nor on the site set up by Rushmore casino that promoted that special bonus nor on the Rushmore homepage and in the cashier it even said that all deposit methods are allowed once I had entered the bonus code.

I did read the terms and nowhere did it say something like neteller is not allowed or only credit card, moneyline and moneybooker are allowed deposit methods. Like I said I deposited and I claimed that bonus some weeks ago. To be more precise it was on the 19th of August. And I have made screenshots of the terms on that day and maybe I should post them here but I do not know how to put a pic into a post but I can do some research about it and once I have found it out I can post my screenshots in this thread to prove that I am right. Am I allowed to post a screenshot of the site that described the affiliates special bonus? Probably I am.

FYI

The player submitted this complaint at Gambling Grumbles and they ruled in his favor, citing the fact that Rushmore do not have a term stating that Neteller deposits are excluded from promotions, since this was their reason for confiscation.

Unfortunately, GG got it wrong this time around. All Rushmore promotions state clearly which methods are accepted i.e. they do not list what methods are excluded (which is why GG did not find anything).

From the website:



It is a very clear case of the player not checking the terms before they deposit, and the casino is well within their rights to confiscate the winnings and bonus.

Make sure you check the terms every time you take a bonus and you can avoid another unfortunate situation like this.

FWIW it has been common knowledge for a long time (around here at least) that Rushmore do not give bonuses on Neteller deposits, so this is not something they have invented to avoid payment.

So this thread goes into a complete wrong direction now. I did check the terms and if Rushmore wants to exclude a deposit method from promotions they have to state that on their site somewhere and they do so NOW but they did not do so on the 19th of August. And that means that they stole my legitimate winnings.

 

[Nifty29]

Stop. you are wrong, folks. please read one more time what I posted:




I did read the terms and nowhere did it say something like neteller is not allowed or only credit card, moneyline and moneybooker are allowed deposit methods. Like I said I deposited and I claimed that bonus some weeks ago. To be more precise it was on the 19th of August. And I have made screenshots of the terms on that day and maybe I should post them here but I do not know how to put a pic into a post but I can do some research about it and once I have found it out I can post my screenshots in this thread to prove that I am right. Am I allowed to post a screenshot of the site that described the affiliates special bonus? Probably I am.



So this thread goes into a complete wrong direction now. I did check the terms and if Rushmore wants to exclude a deposit method from promotions they have to state that on their site somewhere and they do so NOW but they did not do so on the 19th of August. And that means that they stole my legitimate winnings.

Post your screenshots.

However, you incorrect about the homepage....rushmore have listed accepted deposit methods with their bonuses for years, and neteller has not been accepted in all that time.

BTW was your unsuccessful PAB related to this issue or a different one?

 

[chuchu59]

By stating only certain depositing methods are accepted for promotions Rushmore is specifically saying that others are excluded. However I do not follow Nifty's argument when saying the op's $250 deposit is tied to the bonus. The casino is not honouring the bonus so it is not possible for wagering to be tied to a non-existent bonus.

 

[same_old]

Stop. you are wrong, folks. please read one more time what I posted:




I did read the terms and nowhere did it say something like neteller is not allowed or only credit card, moneyline and moneybooker are allowed deposit methods. Like I said I deposited and I claimed that bonus some weeks ago. To be more precise it was on the 19th of August. And I have made screenshots of the terms on that day and maybe I should post them here but I do not know how to put a pic into a post but I can do some research about it and once I have found it out I can post my screenshots in this thread to prove that I am right. Am I allowed to post a screenshot of the site that described the affiliates special bonus? Probably I am.



So this thread goes into a complete wrong direction now. I did check the terms and if Rushmore wants to exclude a deposit method from promotions they have to state that on their site somewhere and they do so NOW but they did not do so on the 19th of August. And that means that they stole my legitimate winnings.

I'm Sorry If i did not correctly read into your first post joefrom.

Now in this case this is between the Affiliate and the casino.

Did the casino inform the affiliate that NETELLER was NOT allowed for this particular bonus, if not then YES- the casino IS at fault here.

If the casino did inform the Affiliate of this then your argument needs to be with him/her as the casino did state to them.

Have you gone to the affiliate site you joined through and asked them this?

 

[chayton]

I did check the terms and if Rushmore wants to exclude a deposit method from promotions they have to state that on their site somewhere and they do so NOW but they did not do so on the 19th of August. And that means that they stole my legitimate winnings.

If you have screenshots of the terms when you made the deposit and it didn't say anything about Neteller then maybe you should stop posting and try to PAB if you haven't already.

 

[Nifty29]

By stating only certain depositing methods are accepted for promotions Rushmore is specifically saying that others are excluded. However I do not follow Nifty's argument when saying the op's $250 deposit is tied to the bonus. The casino is not honouring the bonus so it is not possible for wagering to be tied to a non-existent bonus.

You've lost me Chu.

When the bonus was still in play, his deposit was subject to WR.

Once the bonus and winnings were removed, of course he could play whatever he wanted.....however I don't see where the OP said anything about playing BJ..??

 

[luarod]

Hi.

Well. this is a tough one. As same_old mentioned, it could be a misunderstanding between the Affiliate and the Casino if the Affiliate's email didn't have correct Terms and conditions. If this was the case, the player shouldn't pay for others.

The way I see it, he shouldn't have received the bonus in the first place. I can't believe that is so difficult to make a bonus that doesn't allow certain players. If I haven't made a deposit and put the code I won't get the money, well if I haven't made a deposit with the necessary methods then I shouldn't get the bonus.

As he shouldn't have gotten the bonus, the winnings made with that bonus should be voided so for me he should still get the initial deposit as if the bonus thing didn't happen.

All this, if the OP is right and in the email he got there is no mention to neteller deposits not being OK.

 

[vinylweatherman]

This is the problem with trusting affiliates. Affiliates are not going to give out negative information that might put off a player from signing up after going through his links. It is also known that some affiliates go as far as to fake the casino's own site in order to prevent the player from having a "look around" before registering. I have seen many such faked sites, where although there are the usual links to terms, about us, promotions, etc, everything you click on just downloads the casino. When this is done, the terms are no longer obvious, as they are not mentioned in the lobby, nor enforced by the coupon system. I don't think the back end can be configured to kill coupons based on method of deposit, even though they can block coupons based on "static" criteria, such as country of origin, player status, etc.

Maybe complain to Neteller, and state that the winnings were taken SOLELY because Neteller was used, rather than method of play, questionable ID, etc.

I have already spoken to Neteller VIP about this, and it seems they don't actually know this kind of thing is going on. They may see this as merchants libeling Neteller by implying any deposits coming through them are much riskier than even Moneybookers, which is the SAME kind of service, but is in direct competition with Neteller.

Of course, this is Rushmore, and only half of the problem. Even if this hadn't happened, they seem to have repeated problems with their processors that delay withdrawals, sometimes for weeks, and not always confined to US players.

The casino has covered it's ass by another term that states information on "third party sites" is automatically overruled by information on the casino site itself. Clearly, casinos know damn well that affiliates pull stunts like this, and add this type of term in order to shift responsibilty to the affiliate.

Forget CDS, it's a clear win for the casino because the term is there. The only way to win is if the term was only added after the bonus was claimed, and most of us know that a term of this nature has been at Rushmore for a couple of years, and although Moneybookers seems to have been allowed again for bonuses (it used to be ONLY cards and bank deposits) Neteller was permanently added. The term also used to list excluded methods, but has now changed to list included methods, which in some sense is a clearer way to do it.

The lesson is to NEVER rely on what an affiliate site says about a promotion, but ALWAYS double check with the casino.

Ideally, you should NOT go via the affiliate at all in case it leads to a different page where the information is misleading, but go DIRECT via the URL typed into the browser, and read all the terms and conditions. If after doing this you feel you want to go via the affiliate, clear your cookies and go back to the affiliate site, click through, and then register. The affiliate will get the credit, but you can be sure you have been presented with the terms from the casino's own site, rather than information on the affiliate site, or special landing page.

The misleading landing page trick is normally seen with email spam, rather than through links on an affiliate site.

 

[greasemonkey]

Post your screenshots.

However, you incorrect about the homepage....rushmore have listed accepted deposit methods with their bonuses for years, and neteller has not been accepted in all that time.

BTW was your unsuccessful PAB related to this issue or a different one?

STOP.
You are totally wrong and are giving misinformation. Neteller has been allowed as recently as a few months ago for bonuses. You really muddy the waters.

 

[ksech]

You've lost me Chu.

When the bonus was still in play, his deposit was subject to WR.

Once the bonus and winnings were removed, of course he could play whatever he wanted.....however I don't see where the OP said anything about playing BJ..??

@ Nifty - The OP stated he/she was playing blackjack and got ahead when he/she noticed the funds had been removed (this was in the first few lines of the opening post)...

It sounds like the OP went through an unreliable affiliate and is now paying the consequences. To the OP, if you wish to go through affiliate sites try using links from the affiliates here at CM. That way, when you run into a problem they can help you out (and the majority here will go above and beyond to help out their fellow meistermates).

 

[greasemonkey]

You've lost me Chu.

When the bonus was still in play, his deposit was subject to WR.

Once the bonus and winnings were removed, of course he could play whatever he wanted.....however I don't see where the OP said anything about playing BJ..??

Some weeks ago I signed up at rushmore casino via an affiliate who offered a special welcome bonus of 300%. I deposited 250$ via neteller. The bonus was credited so that I had a balance of 1000$ and I played blackjack and some minutes later my balance was 2000$. Suddenly I was disconnected from the casino and the bonus of 750$ and the winnings of 1000$ were removed so that only my deposit of 250$ was left. I talked to the live suppor

 

[greasemonkey]

I folllow Chu perfectly. do they honor the bonus or not? they can't have it both ways. They can't honor it and the 250 deposit be theirs then change their mind and keep all the money and just give back the deposit. If they want to take back the bonus and take off the wagering requirements then I guess that is OK although not very good. However, they are not entitled to also keep the winnings. That is ridiculous to think that they have this option. THEY issued the bonus. It is on THEM, not the OP. So even if you believe that they are allowed to take back the bonus then you cannot also logically think that they can also take back the winnings. If so then they would have also had to give back the deposit if the player lost, which he didn't. If a player makes a mistake many on this forum are like "oh well, you didn't read the terms or goofed up, expensive lesson learned". OK, well if that is the case then the same also must be said for the casino.
In this case they messed up. They need to be held accountable and MORE so since it is their business and not entertainment, than the player.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Looks like the OP is stuffed.

Even on the main page for the welcome bonus it states:-

Available for Credit Card, Moneyline, and moneybooker deposits.

If you click through to the conditions, this is repeated as the first one.

Seems the casino wins this one, the problem is the affiliate failing to make it clear that this bonus is restricted to only 3 deposit methods. It's not just Neteller that is banned, but for non-US players a whole host of deposit methods don't qualify for this bonus, ranging from direct bank transfer to Click2Pay.

The answer is to get a Moneybookers account, and then Rushmore would have no excuses. Moneybookers is the same type of service as Neteller, just run by a different company. Rushmore have banned Moneybookers from bonuses in the past, so this term should be checked every time, or if you can't be arsed with the hassle and just want to play, try a different operator.

 

[ksech]

It's been awhile since I gambled online...at RTG you submit the coupon code THEN make your deposit, correct? If NeTeller isn't an allowed deposit method for bonuses then it should have been kicked back as a rejection when the OP deposited. So, saying the OP really did miss the part about NeTeller not being allowed, then Rushmore accounting screwed up allowing the bonus to be creditted on a non allowable deposit method and allowing the player to begin working towards WR.(Or am I just confusing myself more?) If this is the case, then Rushmore should, IMO, give the player a percentage of the money won BACK to the player in "good faith" for their mistake.

 

[Jasminebed]

Rushmore has a rep here https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/. I'd contact her with your issue, she's been very helpful to players in the past.

The terms of not allowing bonuses with Neteller have been around quite a while as far as I am aware. If you have screenshots, then please send them to the rep. I suggest you don't post them in the thread in case you find you need to PAB, and you probably shouldn't post more about your issue at this time.

As I see it, there are two possible satisfactory solutions. The affiliate is an agent of the casino, and the casino should reissue the bonus and winnings to the players account and he is allowed to continue to play and try to meet the wagering. If the casino does this for you, I'd ready every single word of the terms and promotional terms etc. to make sure I didn't violate any other rules. The casino then deals with the affiliate as it deems fit.

The Rep shows the OP where he missed the term, or apologies profusely for a rogue or perhaps merely mistaken affiliate and promises appropriate action will be taken with the affiliate. The player has his deposit to either play or withdraw as he sees fit, and it is processed swiftly if he chooses to withdraw it. A freechip of some kind is offered as a goodwill gesture if the OP can demonstrate via screenshots that the affiliate or email was promoting incorrect terms.

Joefrom, for your own peace of mind, remember that while you may have been ahead, wagering was not yet complete and you had not "won" that money yet by completing wagering.

If Louise doesn't help you in a manner you feel is satisfactory, (allow her some time to respond and investigate), DON"T POST further here, but instead read all the rules and PAB.

A lot of long-time members have suggested that you don't have much of a case, and I tend to lean that way myself.

Hopefully Rushmore will take this opportunity to fix the cashier so that it doesn't issue bonuses that players have not qualified for.

 

[Nifty29]

I folllow Chu perfectly. do they honor the bonus or not? they can't have it both ways. They can't honor it and the 250 deposit be theirs then change their mind and keep all the money and just give back the deposit. If they want to take back the bonus and take off the wagering requirements then I guess that is OK although not very good. However, they are not entitled to also keep the winnings. That is ridiculous to think that they have this option. THEY issued the bonus. It is on THEM, not the OP. So even if you believe that they are allowed to take back the bonus then you cannot also logically think that they can also take back the winnings. If so then they would have also had to give back the deposit if the player lost, which he didn't. If a player makes a mistake many on this forum are like "oh well, you didn't read the terms or goofed up, expensive lesson learned". OK, well if that is the case then the same also must be said for the casino.
In this case they messed up. They need to be held accountable and MORE so since it is their business and not entertainment, than the player.

Before adding any further insightful comments like " " you need to realise that once a bonus is taken, the ENTIRE balance becomes subject to WR AND the ENTIRE amount is considered to be a bonus. Don't just take my word for it...check out the cashier next time you take a bonus. You know that very well. I'll admit I missed the blackjack part (probably because it is irrelevant to the discussion of eligibility), but I wonder if you will admit to knowing that the above is true (like anyone else who has taken an RTG bonus does)? There's nothing shameful in admitting one is wrong....when you eventually are one day you should give it a whirl.

It is also irrelevant whether the cashier allowed it to pass...the terms are clear AND HAVE been so for a LONG time on the welcome bonus.

Any balance increase was the result of a "non bonus", as you insist it was, so any and all "winnings" are fruit of the poisonous tree. Remember, it is you that suggested it "didn't exist" in the first place. No bonus = no winnings (although as another pointed out nothing was "won" at that point and I can't see the casino being too scared when he doubled his money with a 75xBD WR to get through).

I wonder how high his first 6 bets were and if he won any of them?

Oh, and deliberately increasing your font size to press your point is considered rude and makes it appear as if you think your opinion is more important than anyone else's. It was obviously born of your personal beef with me, and I didn't appreciate it. It is also the kind of thing that you constantly accuse others of doing, which is kind of ironic.

 

[LaHutti]

Before adding any further insightful comments like " " you need to realise that once a bonus is taken, the ENTIRE balance becomes subject to WR AND the ENTIRE amount is considered to be a bonus. Don't just take my word for it...check out the cashier next time you take a bonus. You know that very well. I'll admit I missed the blackjack part (probably because it is irrelevant to the discussion of eligibility), but I wonder if you will admit to knowing that the above is true (like anyone else who has taken an RTG bonus does)? There's nothing shameful in admitting one is wrong....when you eventually are one day you should give it a whirl.

It is also irrelevant whether the cashier allowed it to pass...the terms are clear AND HAVE been so for a LONG time on the welcome bonus.

Any balance increase was the result of a "non bonus", as you insist it was, so any and all "winnings" are fruit of the poisonous tree. Remember, it is you that suggested it "didn't exist" in the first place. No bonus = no winnings (although as another pointed out nothing was "won" at that point and I can't see the casino being too scared when he doubled his money with a 75xBD WR to get through).

I wonder how high his first 6 bets were and if he won any of them?

Oh, and deliberately increasing your font size to press your point is considered rude and makes it appear as if you think your opinion is more important than anyone else's. It was obviously born of your personal beef with me, and I didn't appreciate it. It is also the kind of thing that you constantly accuse others of doing, which is kind of ironic.

Fair enough Nifty....the problem that Chu is pointing out tho, is that if the player according to the casino, wasn't eligible to take the bonus, AND they confiscated it, the player was never playing on the bponus, right ? He was playing with his own money, as the bonus requirements could not be in effect, (Since the bonus didn't exist), hence the winnings came from the players own money, and shouldn't be confiscated.
I'm able to follow the logic in that, and either way, the player did not do anything wrong....the question remains, who should pay for it. I don't think the player should, as it seems to be either a misunderstanding between the affiliate and the casino, OR the casino is full of it.

 

[bb28]

I can't wrap my head around why Rushmore would exclude on a particular deposit method, anyone know why?

It does seem like I remember this coming up several years ago also.

With all the slow pays and processor problems with this group, I am staying far away.

 

[LaHutti]

If OP really has the screenshots, and everything he said sofar is true (Which we have no reason to think it isn't), I would personally stop posting, and PAB it, to let Max figure out what really happened, and who is at fault. It's a little complicated isn't it ?
Since the casinos chose to use affiliates, the question is....should the casino, or the player pay for the affiliates mistakes, if it's actually the affiliates fault, or should the players ?
I don't see many affilliates lining up to pay....anyone ever heard of that ?

 

[same_old]

Well this is how (I) myself personally see this.

If the OP joined through an affiliate website and nowhere was it stated to him that the bonus could NOT be claimed through Neteller then I can understand his frustration here.
If nothing was stated in the AFF's T&C's then you would just go ahead and make the deposit and play not knowing you are doomed from the deposit.

I really feel this is between the Affiliate and the casino to sort out here. Did the affiliate have these terms and conditions on his webpage, did he refer the OP to Rushmores T&C's?

If not, then I feel the Affiliate is at fault here and should cough the money up.

The other side of the coin here is did Rushmore give out all the correct terms and conditions to the affiliate and or tell them to refer back to theres?
I certainly can't see how the OP would be at fault here provided he/she is giving us the full and correct story.


In regards to the BJ side of things I feel this is a pretty clear case here also.

It is clear now he was denied the winnings due taking the bonus but unfortunately at the same time he has locked himself into that bonus with NO WAY of winning at all ( basically this gave the casino a free ride to do what they wanted). You see he had EXTRA funds from the bonus and WON on them so any winnings at all are voided, matter how far he got into the bonus- as soon as he was $1 into spinning he was done for.
The Black Jack case is an after affect and has no bearing on the case.

As Nifty is saying- once that bonus was taken the money was not his anymore regardless if he won.

We all need to start a thread about GIVING back our deposits if WE find anything wrong from our side. What would have happened if the OP LOST but THEN found out his bonus wasn't allowed. IS he allowed to go back and say I want my money back just as the casino is doing right now?

 

[jod5413]

I am quite confused by a 300% bonus that even allows BJ, even with a 75X playthrough. Is it possible that the BJ play might be the culprit?

In any case, I myself have seen and known about the no Neteller bonuses for a long time. A newbie might not, but it is definitely on the web site. It is unfortunate that we must use a fine tooth comb to keep us out of trouble, IMO.

It would be interesting to see the actual bonus offer page and the "special" Rushmore page the link from the affy showed.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I am quite confused by a 300% bonus that even allows BJ, even with a 75X playthrough. Is it possible that the BJ play might be the culprit?

In any case, I myself have seen and known about the no Neteller bonuses for a long time. A newbie might not, but it is definitely on the web site. It is unfortunate that we must use a fine tooth comb to keep us out of trouble, IMO.

It would be interesting to see the actual bonus offer page and the "special" Rushmore page the link from the affy showed.

For this we would need to know how the OP joined, and try to reconstruct this to see whether this is a case of an affiliate misleading players, or a player who just didn't check clearly available terms when reaching the casino download page.

 

[joefrom]

first of all I want to thank those who try to help me and I appreciate it that so many members of this forum participate in this thread and in the discussion.

now some comments and answers and additonal informations:

- My failed PAB was not about Rushmore but it was about Vegasregal. I cannot PAB again now afaik because Rushmore is not accredited at Casinomeister. Nevertheless I sent a PM to maxd asking if he could help me but he has not replied yet.

- I sent a PM to Louise, the rep of Rushmore, but she has not replied yet.

- The fact that I played blackjack had nothing to do with the confiscation of the bonus and the winnings. Rushmore confiscated the bonus and the winnings only because I deposited via neteller.

- someone posted that it is common knowledge (around here at least) that Rushmore do not give bonuses on neteller deposits. however, it does not matter if it is common knowledge that Rushmore do not give bonuses on neteller deposits (around here or anywhere) but all that matters is the question if Rushmore informed me about it before I deposited via neteller and they failed to do so. Neither me nor the affiliate made a mistake but Rushmore made a mistake and they cannot confiscate a player's winnings because of a mistake that they have made.

- it is true that on the Rushmore homepage it says that on the welcome bonus only deposits via credit card, moneyline and moneybookers are allowed.
however, that does not matter because I did not claim this bonus nor the other ones that are described there but I claimed a different one that was not mentioned on the Rushmore homepage - an affiliate's exclusive welcome bonus. I am going to post my screenshots - hoping that I will make it lol.

 

[chuchu59]

Joefrom,

Do whatever you want including posting the screenshot of the exclusive offer from the affiliate. Nevertheless, you must understand that offers should still be subject to the general terms stated at the Rushmore website.

I find it difficult to understand why the bonus cannot be declined by the cashier automatically. Rushmore denies the bonuses to certain depositing methods so they should strike a deal with rtg on this. Say, at CWC, The bonuses are only given for deposits of a certain size eg $100 min. for a high-roller's bonus so the same could be applied for various depositing methods. The fact that Rushmore failed to take this precautionary step and instead making the player pay for its own negligence is not right IMHO.

 

[vinylweatherman]

first of all I want to thank those who try to help me and I appreciate it that so many members of this forum participate in this thread and in the discussion.

now some comments and answers and additonal informations:

- My failed PAB was not about Rushmore but it was about Vegasregal. I cannot PAB again now afaik because Rushmore is not accredited at Casinomeister. Nevertheless I sent a PM to maxd asking if he could help me but he has not replied yet.

- I sent a PM to Louise, the rep of Rushmore, but she has not replied yet.

- The fact that I played blackjack had nothing to do with the confiscation of the bonus and the winnings. Rushmore confiscated the bonus and the winnings only because I deposited via neteller.

- someone posted that it is common knowledge (around here at least) that Rushmore do not give bonuses on neteller deposits. however, it does not matter if it is common knowledge that Rushmore do not give bonuses on neteller deposits (around here or anywhere) but all that matters is the question if Rushmore informed me about it before I deposited via neteller and they failed to do so. Neither me nor the affiliate made a mistake but Rushmore made a mistake and they cannot confiscate a player's winnings because of a mistake that they have made.

- it is true that on the Rushmore homepage it says that on the welcome bonus only deposits via credit card, moneyline and moneybookers are allowed.
however, that does not matter because I did not claim this bonus nor the other ones that are described there but I claimed a different one that was not mentioned on the Rushmore homepage - an affiliate's exclusive welcome bonus. I am going to post my screenshots - hoping that I will make it lol.

Then the AFFILIATE is to blame, as this was his own exclusive code to offer, and should have been aware of the eligibilty criteria, and should also have been aware that such exclusives are NOT on the Rushmore site, so players could not access any bonus specific terms that were not given to them by the affiliate.

It is not even that clear cut about Neteller, since I raised this with their CS after they asked why I was no longer playing, and when I said it was because every code they had sent me excluded Neteller, they said they could be "flexible" and put the code through for me anyway.

If they can do such a special deal with a player, it is reasonable to assume that an affiliate targeting their own specific market could get a similar exemption applied to their exclusive code, thus making it the affiliate's responsibilty to make it clear what exemptions apply to the code, and which do not, as this is the whole reason for having these affiliate exclusive deals in the first place, to offer their players something not made available to players going direct.

The OP should show us the page from the affiliate site responsible for this, so that we can see for ourselves whether this was an "accident waiting to happen", or just a case of a player not reading terms that would have been displayed during the process of joining via this affiliate, and using the exclusive code.

 

[Nifty29]

Then the AFFILIATE is to blame, as this was his own exclusive code to offer, and should have been aware of the eligibilty criteria, and should also have been aware that such exclusives are NOT on the Rushmore site, so players could not access any bonus specific terms that were not given to them by the affiliate.

It is not even that clear cut about Neteller, since I raised this with their CS after they asked why I was no longer playing, and when I said it was because every code they had sent me excluded Neteller, they said they could be "flexible" and put the code through for me anyway.

If they can do such a special deal with a player, it is reasonable to assume that an affiliate targeting their own specific market could get a similar exemption applied to their exclusive code, thus making it the affiliate's responsibilty to make it clear what exemptions apply to the code, and which do not, as this is the whole reason for having these affiliate exclusive deals in the first place, to offer their players something not made available to players going direct.

The OP should show us the page from the affiliate site responsible for this, so that we can see for ourselves whether this was an "accident waiting to happen", or just a case of a player not reading terms that would have been displayed during the process of joining via this affiliate, and using the exclusive code.

Exactly, we should refrain from any more assumptions until the OP posts the screenshot (or the terms at least).

It's odd that they're taking so long to do it though.

 

[joefrom]

sorry that it took so long but I was busy and I never inserted a pic into a post before. so this is a pic of the affiliate's site. note that it does not say anywhere that one cannot use neteller to claim this bonus. I am going to post the other screenshots I have, too.

 

[Nifty29]

Joe.....what does it say in the top right corner? It is only partially showing and appears to say something about terms and deposit methods.

It is also important to note that there is very little information provided at all, and nothing in regards to deposit methods allowed....but then there is no space for it either.

Could you please post the url for the page or PM to me? I wouldn't mind looking at the other bonuses/pages etc.

 

[bb28]

I took a screenie of what is presently on that site now for Rushmore.

I clicked on terms and conditions but didn't screen it because it won't fit, but here is the link.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I don't see any exclusions for certain deposit methods on that page.

 

[Nifty29]

I took a screenie of what is presently on that site now for Rushmore.

I clicked on terms and conditions but didn't screen it because it won't fit, but here is the link.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I don't see any exclusions for certain deposit methods on that page.

Based on the last few posts, it appears that rushmore may have a problem and the player may have a case.

I've combed through both pages and nothing is mentioned either way.

Certainly worth a PAB I would say.

 

[joefrom]

is it ok if I post the screenshots this way? this is a screenshot of the complete site on which this exclusive welcome bonus of an affiliate was promoted:

 

[joefrom]

I took a screenie of what is presently on that site now for Rushmore.

I clicked on terms and conditions but didn't screen it because it won't fit, but here is the link.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I don't see any exclusions for certain deposit methods on that page.

thank you for posting this screenshot. I just wanted to post it, too, but you were faster than me

A rep of this affiliate site told me they took down this promotion but when you click on the banner of Rushmore you are still taken to the site that promotes this special welcome bonus of 300%. Strange. Rushmore should have taken down this site meanwhile but they did not do so. Do they still offer this exclusive bonus of 300%? Maybe someone could sign up at Rushmore and enter the bonus code to find out if it is still valid.

Note these things:

this site was obviously set up by Rushmore so they are responsible for its content (the address is www.rushmoreonline.com/lcb).

nowhere does it say something like one cannot deposit via neteller to claim this exclusive bonus.

on the bottom it says: "click here for bonus terms and conditions". so it was my duty to click on this link and I did so before I deposited and I was taken to the site on which the terms are described and there it did not say anything like neteller is not allowed or only certain deposit methods are allowed.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I have found the page, and the path indicates blame lies firmly with Rushmore.

Using the link from this affiliate takes you to a special "ringfenced" page with this affiliate's trademark alongside that of Rushmore. At the base of this page, and after the 5 stage bonus is a link for "bonus terms and conditions". This is where Rushmore have screwed up. This link takes one to the GENERAL terms and conditions ONLY, and not the BONUS terms as indicated. The terms at the end of this link mention NOTHING about bonuses, and to all intents and purposes are represented to the visiting player as the ENTIRE terms and conditions. The lack of inclusion of the bonus terms via this link means that the only places such players can get any information about exclusions is from the affiliate site, where no mention is made of only certain deposit methods being eligible. The other place is when entering the coupon in the cashier, and this I have not been able to check, so cannot say whether a notice appears informing players that only certain deposit methods can be used.

Since this incident, this affiliate has posted a warning about Rushmore because a number of his referred players have encountered problems. Despite this, the links are still active, and feeding further players through a system that is an "accident waiting to happen".

The cause is simply down to a single line of code on the Rushmore site, where this affiliate's special page has an error in the clickable link for "bonus terms and conditions" that misdirects instead to the GENERAL terms and conditions. Unless they were expecting to get screwed, a player going down this route would be trusting enough to then go forward with registration and deposit.

These special pages are clearly meant to be reachable via affiliate links only, and not able to be found through navigating from the home page.

The affiliate does not seem to have done his research, as otherwise he should have questioned this apparrent oversight when testing out his links.

When I looked, someone had actually asked this question as to whether there was a problem with claiming with Neteller and Moneybookers. Rather than check, the webmaster dismissed the point with "I just copied the codes from Rushmore's website". This is irresponsible behaviour given that a pertinent question had been raised, and this point should have been raised by him with the affiliate program in order to ensure players he was referring were not being mislead through lack of information.

It's what you get when using a poor quality affiliate looking to "pile 'em high, sell 'em cheap", rather than ensure that all offers and information are researched in depth, and proper and full reviews written.

Had you looked at this site's forum, you may have seen that there were issues surrounding Rushmore, and would have approached with more caution, perhaps questioning why the "bonus terms" made no mention of bonus specific rules and exclusions, but waffled endlessly with "legalese" covering software ownership, granted rights, copyrights, documents, etc.

Being less trusting of information on affiliate sites (who have a vested interest in NOT putting you off with unpalatable truths), and doing one's own independent research, would probably have saved the OP from having this money confiscated. It wouldn't have taken too much independent research to uncover Rushmore's habitual payment delays, and odd exclusions of a number of deposit methods when it comes to claiming bonuses.

At least this affiliate now has a warning up, which should cause visiting players to ask the question WHY, and do a little extra research about the issues that lead up to this warning being posted.

In essence, this affiliate refers players to casinos based on their headline bonus offering, and thus has loads of casinos on the site. This would naturally lead to little time for more in depth research into the TRUE quality of these bonuses, this being done through the referred players "beta testing" and finding the issues the hard way.

Rushmore is also to blame for even CONSIDERING doing a "special deal" with an affiliate well known for attracting "bonus hunters", and directing floods of them at any casino that has a vulnerabilty in the maths of a promotion. Rushmore only got what they should have expected to get via this affiliate, "hard core" bonus hunters and advantage players. It is hypocritical of them to squeal with indignation because such an affiliate has NOT sent them a load of inexpert players from which they can make loads of money because they don't know how to play a bonus properly.

 

[joefrom]

this is a screenshot of the complete terms and conditions. in other words of the site I was taken to when I clicked on "click here for bonus terms and conditons". sorry for the poor quality.

 

[vinylweatherman]

this is a screenshot of the complete terms and conditions. in other words of the site I was taken to when I clicked on "click here for bonus terms and conditons". sorry for the poor quality.

View attachment 29618

That's the problem in a nutshell. The link has been wrongly coded. It goes to the wrong page, it SHOULD be going to the BONUS terms page, a page you would reach had you joined direct and used the regular "all comers" coupon codes and clicked the terms links there.

Of course, this would then mean you could miss seeing the GENERAL terms, as there is only ONE link, yet TWO different sets of terms and conditions.

 

[bb28]

VM wrote up a good summary of what has happened and where the problems lie.

If it was up to me, I think you should be paid your winnings as Rushmore has fouled up here, but on the other hand people are having a hard time getting their money when there isn't any problems with t&c's.

CDC maybe?

 

[joefrom]

I have found the page, and the path indicates blame lies firmly with Rushmore.


Since this incident, this affiliate has posted a warning about Rushmore because a number of his referred players have encountered problems. Despite this, the links are still active, and feeding further players through a system that is an "accident waiting to happen".

yes, obviously Rushmore made a mistake but not me. Therefore they should restore my balance of 2000$ or make a suggestion for a different solution, maybe something like a compromise. but they ignore me and refuse to do so.

and yes, it was a good move that the affiliate posted a warning about Rushmore but how strange it is that the links towards the exclusive welcome bonus and the terms are still active. the rep of the affiliate site with whom I was in contact told me eight weeks ago the exclusive bonus was terminated so the link should not be active anymore. and why does Rushmore not correct the mistake they made? they are aware of this problem since about nine weeks. could it be that Rushmore and the affiliate do not care about the players but only about making as much money as possible?

btw the rep of the affiliate blamed Rushmore. he told me the exclusive bonus had no restrictions back when it was arranged and only later Rushmore decided to apply general rules to this exclusive bonus as well - or Rushmore forgot to mention existing restrictions - without notifying the affiliate about such changes.

VM wrote up a good summary of what has happened and where the problems lie.

If it was up to me, I think you should be paid your winnings as Rushmore has fouled up here, but on the other hand people are having a hard time getting their money when there isn't any problems with t&c's.

CDC maybe?

what does CDC mean? do you mean CDS, the central disputes system of RTG casinos? I think it would be a waste of time to contact them because they are notorious for not being helpful at all. the CDS seems to be a swindle.