king neptunes casino live chat, hilarious unless it was my money :-(

[Chameleon]

hello friends...
so first, the technical details:
on the 16/12/2010 i opened an account at
king neptunes casino, made a deposit and enjoyed
their 100% match bonus.
i fulfilled the terms and conditions had a alot of luck
and ended with a balance of 2031 poudns which i asked
to withdraw right after.
the casino asked me for documents (ID and utility bill) which
i sent several times becasue they kept claiming they don't recieve them.
i even attached two utility bills for them just so they can be happy...
then suddenly they locked my account without a notice.
from the livechat operator i found out they were supspecting the documents
i supplied were falsified. i asked to speak with
the managers but they refused to supply me with any other email
address but the one of the general support. and told me that the
decision is final and nothing can be done to unlock my account and pay me my winnigs.
few days later i called them at the phone and then
they told me i can send them another utility bill which i did but
again they kept not replying to my emails.
i went for the livechat again and this is the transcript of our conversation.
judge it yourself...
-------------------------------------------------------------------
04 June 2011 09:02:23 PM (2011/06/04 07:02:23 PM - GMT)
Welcome to Casino Support, SairaS will be right with you.

SairaS:
Thank you for contacting Casino Support and welcome to Live Help Facility. How may I assist you today?

Elliott Smus:
hello. i sent you a copy of my utility bill recently but haven't received an answear from you, could you please check if it arrived?

SairaS:
Hello Elliot, please allow me to check on that for you

Elliott Smus:
tnks

SairaS:
Elliot when did you send us the utility bill?

Elliott Smus:
i sent it to verifyme@bellerockentertainment.com

Elliott Smus:
on the 30/5

SairaS:
what was the Bill for?

Elliott Smus:
in order to unlock my account

SairaS:
your utility bill which organization was it from?

Elliott Smus:
Barclays, the bank

SairaS:
no we have not received that Elliot

SairaS:
was the size of your e-mail bigger than 3 mb?

SairaS:
if so it would not have come through our e-mail filter

Elliott Smus:
no

Elliott Smus:
it was a file of 265 KB

SairaS:
would you be able to send it through to us again Elliot?

SairaS:
you can send it to my e-mail address?

SairaS:
so i can keep an eye out for it?

SairaS:
personally?

Elliott Smus:
sure, i would love to since it is not the first time you don't receive email from me, it might be better this way

Elliott Smus:
what is your email address?

SairaS:
Elliot i am just chatting with the finance department regarding your account

SairaS:
please allow me a few moment

SairaS:
Ok Elliot our Finance department have actually said to me that we do not require any documentation from yourself

SairaS:
and that your account will remain locked

SairaS:
and will not be unlocked

Elliott Smus:
but you asked me for that

SairaS:
due to negative activity on your account the casino reserves the right to suspend your account

Elliott Smus:
look, i have never received any email from you regarding that, you don't replay to my email and the only way i hear that is by livechat, isn't it weird?

SairaS:
Elliot I am sorry that you have not received any correspondence regarding this, as per the casinos terms and conditions your account is now locked and will remain locked

Elliott Smus:
i would like to speak or write to the managers, is there a way to do that? it is very unacceptable the way you treat me

SairaS:
I am the manager on shift today Elliot

Elliott Smus:
you don't explain nothing and just lock my account without paying me 2000 pounds! do you consider that as a proper way to treat a client?

SairaS:
Elliot the reason why we initially requested the documentation form your self was for verification purposes, you were unable to provide is with satisfactory documentation when we initially requested them from you, and you were unable to comply with the terms and conditions of the casino.

SairaS:
you send us an e-mail around the 2nd of May and I at the time requested further information from you

SairaS:
and that was the 2nd of May and after that you are saying that you sent us a barclay's statement on the 30th of May?

Elliott Smus:
i don't recall that email from 2nd of may

SairaS:
i will copy and paste it to you in that:

Elliott Smus:
i can't find it in my sent items folder

Elliott Smus:
thank you for that

SairaS:
Dear Elliot,

Thank you for your call earlier on today.
Please send us a copy of your bank statement, or Utility Bill containing your name and your address on it. The statement has to be from within the last 3 months.
If you have any further questions or queries, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Thank you

Kind Regards


Saira S
Casino Player Host

Elliott Smus:
one sec

SairaS:
Unfortunately Elliot the casino has made the decision to suspend your account

SairaS:
is there anything else i can assist you with today?

Elliott Smus:
i m sorry, i have just seen this email now

SairaS:
ok

Elliott Smus:
but what matter does it make?

Elliott Smus:
i have already sent you lots of documets before

SairaS:
the documents you have sent to us have not been approved

Elliott Smus:
and i sent another one a couple of days ago

SairaS:
I'm sorry Elliot we have not received any further correspondence from yourself

Elliott Smus:
so have a look at the last one if there is a need, just becasue i didn't notice the email and sent it by delay doesn't say nothing

SairaS:
Elliot regardless of the delay, or even if we had received your documentation your account will remain locked

Elliott Smus:
so i m sending it again right now, give me your personal email and see it right away!

Elliott Smus:
so why did you asked for documents at the first place?

SairaS:
at which incident today pr previously?

Elliott Smus:
i mean on the 2nd of may you asked for a utility bill, why did you ask it?

Elliott Smus:
if not to unlock my account?

SairaS:
because at that time I did not have to the casinos decision regarding the permanent closure of your account

SairaS:
your account is closed and unfortunately will not be opened

Elliott Smus:
ok, but what about my winnings?

SairaS:
your winnings have been confiscated

SairaS:
as per the violation of the casinos terms and conditions by the negative activity on your account!

Elliott Smus:
so that has got nothing to do with the doumcnets?

SairaS:
unfortunately i cannot discuss this matter further than i already have Elliot

Elliott Smus:
ok, don't discuss it but let me talk with someone who can

SairaS:
i'm sorry Elliot

Elliott Smus:
goodbye now Saira, tnks for all

SairaS:
you are most welcome

----------------------------
sorry for the length.... i m not going to give up.
are there any others of you who experienced the same attitude with them?
Elliott

[Repro]

They are part of the River Belle group and they ARE accredited.

You can contact their rep HERE.

[vinylweatherman]

They get away with this because they are largely unregulated. You have no proper right to appeal the decision, nor even question whether they have made a mistake in the data they have on you.

It is pretty easy to fake a utility bill, but also pretty easy to mistake a genuine one for a fake if it doesn't look like what they think a utility bill should look like.

You could make a complaint to Barclays that your statement has been branded as a fake by an online merchant, and you can also complain now to Trading Standards. All you need to do is demonstrate to the bank and Trading Standards that you sent genuine documents, and the casino could find itself blacklisted for scamming customers by making false representation.

You could even find out who their processor is, and serve them with a data disclosure request (costs £10). Most offshore casinos seem to use UK based processors and verification companies. Proccyber has been the main supplier of such services to MGS casinos when it comes to processing card transactions. You can identify the processor involved from the statement from your deposit method.

Complaining to the regulator is a waste of time, since they have moved to Malta. This still leaves you with eCogra, and maybe even the PAB service - BUT both these options require that you do NOT go public and "bash" the casino before they have had a chance to deal with your request. You have overstepped the mark a little by naming them in your post, rather than just saying "this casino......." when asking for advice.

You could PM Max and ask if he will accept your PAB on condition that you make no further posts about this here, nor on any other forum, and that you refrain from pressuring the casino to "give in" through making threats to CS about what you will do if they don't pay up.

If you DO carry on posting, Max may kick your PAB to the curb, even if he agreed to accept it in the first place.

If you DID try to get away with false documents, you will be "outed" here, and we will all be told that you tried to use this forum to get away with it.

[lauram]

I also back in dec 2010 had a large withdraw coming from jackpot. It was just under20k
They did ask me for updated docs. Did forward them off to find out that you must send each doc separate. Each one with your name date of birth and address account number.
I also used 3 different utility bills. Once they did get those and was readable finally.
I must give them credit on a sunday they paid me every hour 5k till it was paid in full.
Just make sure they are within the 3 months of bills. I even sent off cable to show my computer on it and my cell phone bill where they call me from.

[P.V.]

hello friends...
so first, the technical details:
on the 16/12/2010 i opened an account at
king neptunes casino, made a deposit and enjoyed
their 100% match bonus.
i fulfilled the terms and conditions had a alot of luck
and ended with a balance of 2031 poudns which i asked
to withdraw right after.
the casino asked me for documents (ID and utility bill) which
i sent several times becasue they kept claiming they don't recieve them.
i even attached two utility bills for them just so they can be happy...
then suddenly they locked my account without a notice.
from the livechat operator i found out they were supspecting the documents
i supplied were falsified. i asked to speak with
the managers but they refused to supply me with any other email
address but the one of the general support. and told me that the
decision is final and nothing can be done to unlock my account and pay me my winnigs.
few days later i called them at the phone and then
they told me i can send them another utility bill which i did but
again they kept not replying to my emails.
i went for the livechat again and this is the transcript of our conversation.
judge it yourself...
-------------------------------------------------------------------
04 June 2011 09:02:23 PM (2011/06/04 07:02:23 PM - GMT)
Welcome to Casino Support, SairaS will be right with you.

SairaS:
Thank you for contacting Casino Support and welcome to Live Help Facility. How may I assist you today?

Elliott Smus:
hello. i sent you a copy of my utility bill recently but haven't received an answear from you, could you please check if it arrived?

SairaS:
Hello Elliot, please allow me to check on that for you

Elliott Smus:
tnks

SairaS:
Elliot when did you send us the utility bill?

Elliott Smus:
i sent it to verifyme@bellerockentertainment.com

Elliott Smus:
on the 30/5

SairaS:
what was the Bill for?

Elliott Smus:
in order to unlock my account

SairaS:
your utility bill which organization was it from?

Elliott Smus:
Barclays, the bank

SairaS:
no we have not received that Elliot

SairaS:
was the size of your e-mail bigger than 3 mb?

SairaS:
if so it would not have come through our e-mail filter

Elliott Smus:
no

Elliott Smus:
it was a file of 265 KB

SairaS:
would you be able to send it through to us again Elliot?

SairaS:
you can send it to my e-mail address?

SairaS:
so i can keep an eye out for it?

SairaS:
personally?

Elliott Smus:
sure, i would love to since it is not the first time you don't receive email from me, it might be better this way

Elliott Smus:
what is your email address?

SairaS:
Elliot i am just chatting with the finance department regarding your account

SairaS:
please allow me a few moment

SairaS:
Ok Elliot our Finance department have actually said to me that we do not require any documentation from yourself

SairaS:
and that your account will remain locked

SairaS:
and will not be unlocked

Elliott Smus:
but you asked me for that

SairaS:
due to negative activity on your account the casino reserves the right to suspend your account

Elliott Smus:
look, i have never received any email from you regarding that, you don't replay to my email and the only way i hear that is by livechat, isn't it weird?

SairaS:
Elliot I am sorry that you have not received any correspondence regarding this, as per the casinos terms and conditions your account is now locked and will remain locked

Elliott Smus:
i would like to speak or write to the managers, is there a way to do that? it is very unacceptable the way you treat me

SairaS:
I am the manager on shift today Elliot

Elliott Smus:
you don't explain nothing and just lock my account without paying me 2000 pounds! do you consider that as a proper way to treat a client?

SairaS:
Elliot the reason why we initially requested the documentation form your self was for verification purposes, you were unable to provide is with satisfactory documentation when we initially requested them from you, and you were unable to comply with the terms and conditions of the casino.

SairaS:
you send us an e-mail around the 2nd of May and I at the time requested further information from you

SairaS:
and that was the 2nd of May and after that you are saying that you sent us a barclay's statement on the 30th of May?

Elliott Smus:
i don't recall that email from 2nd of may

SairaS:
i will copy and paste it to you in that:

Elliott Smus:
i can't find it in my sent items folder

Elliott Smus:
thank you for that

SairaS:
Dear Elliot,

Thank you for your call earlier on today.
Please send us a copy of your bank statement, or Utility Bill containing your name and your address on it. The statement has to be from within the last 3 months.
If you have any further questions or queries, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Thank you

Kind Regards


Saira S
Casino Player Host

Elliott Smus:
one sec

SairaS:
Unfortunately Elliot the casino has made the decision to suspend your account

SairaS:
is there anything else i can assist you with today?

Elliott Smus:
i m sorry, i have just seen this email now

SairaS:
ok

Elliott Smus:
but what matter does it make?

Elliott Smus:
i have already sent you lots of documets before

SairaS:
the documents you have sent to us have not been approved

Elliott Smus:
and i sent another one a couple of days ago

SairaS:
I'm sorry Elliot we have not received any further correspondence from yourself

Elliott Smus:
so have a look at the last one if there is a need, just becasue i didn't notice the email and sent it by delay doesn't say nothing

SairaS:
Elliot regardless of the delay, or even if we had received your documentation your account will remain locked

Elliott Smus:
so i m sending it again right now, give me your personal email and see it right away!

Elliott Smus:
so why did you asked for documents at the first place?

SairaS:
at which incident today pr previously?

Elliott Smus:
i mean on the 2nd of may you asked for a utility bill, why did you ask it?

Elliott Smus:
if not to unlock my account?

SairaS:
because at that time I did not have to the casinos decision regarding the permanent closure of your account

SairaS:
your account is closed and unfortunately will not be opened

Elliott Smus:
ok, but what about my winnings?

SairaS:
your winnings have been confiscated

SairaS:
as per the violation of the casinos terms and conditions by the negative activity on your account!

Elliott Smus:
so that has got nothing to do with the doumcnets?

SairaS:
unfortunately i cannot discuss this matter further than i already have Elliot

Elliott Smus:
ok, don't discuss it but let me talk with someone who can

SairaS:
i'm sorry Elliot

Elliott Smus:
goodbye now Saira, tnks for all

SairaS:
you are most welcome

----------------------------
sorry for the length.... i m not going to give up.
are there any others of you who experienced the same attitude with them?
Elliott

The document complaint is a vaild one. As I've posted before they should not be asking for them by email and fax. (Leaves the door wide open for excuses, fruad.) They didn't receive your many emails, correct?.

Everyone should know by whom is viewing their personal information, when it was viewed, approved or denied, for what reason and in real time.

I created a site for this but I generally get that it's not in our business plan, whatever that means from OC's? I think that means we don't care.

Other than complain about current document procedures, demand a better way!

Anyhow good luck and I hope everything works out for you!

[SlotMonster]

It once happened with me, but not in KN casino.

I sent requested documents but because they were scanned on monochrome format, the quality was very poor and casino has denied them. I sent once again, now making a photo of every document and added a photo of ME, holding my ID so casino stuff could see the photo attached to the ID and be sure that I'm holding MY documents. No more questions were asked, and my documents were approved.

I also would advise to request a confirmation message to prove they got your email.

[mellakka]

hello friends...


SairaS:
no we have not received that Elliot

SairaS:
was the size of your e-mail bigger than 3 mb?

SairaS:
if so it would not have come through our e-mail filter

Elliott

Elliott, did u receive any delivery messages when u first time try to send those docs?
I did have similar situation from the past, when i try to send docs for same address i did receive :

This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification

THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY.

YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE.

Delivery to the following recipient has been delayed:

verifyme@bellerockentertaiment.com

Message will be retried for 2 more day(s)

Technical details of temporary failure:
The recipient server did not accept our requests to connect. Learn more at http://mail.google.com/support/bin/a...py?answer=7720
[mx.fakemx.net. (0): Destination address required]



after several attempts :

This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification

THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY.

YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE.

Delivery to the following recipient has been delayed:

verifyme@bellerockentertaiment.com

Message will be retried for 1 more day(s)



and finally :

Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:

verifyme@bellerockentertaiment.com

Technical details of permanent failure:

The recipient server did not accept our requests to connect. Learn more at http://mail.google.com/support/bin/a...py?answer=7720
[mx.fakemx.net. (0): Destination address required]


My problem was i did try to send documents (ID and bill) they was to big together, so i send those in part.
This is not explain why they have lock your account, but check out your email again.

[chuchu59]

A few years ago, several of the RB casinos locked me out for no reason whatsoever. I posted on this forum and was told by their rep that i was suspected of fraudulent activity. Though they refused to disclose more, they reopened my accounts though I must emphasise that they did not owe me a single cent at that time. Later on, I won 800 in a tourney and was paid promptly. IMO they are an honest group although I detest their insistence in not coming clean on why they locked my accounts unilaterally.

[vinylweatherman]

A few years ago, several of the RB casinos locked me out for no reason whatsoever. I posted on this forum and was told by their rep that i was suspected of fraudulent activity. Though they refused to disclose more, they reopened my accounts though I must emphasise that they did not owe me a single cent at that time. Later on, I won 800 in a tourney and was paid promptly. IMO they are an honest group although I detest their insistence in not coming clean on why they locked my accounts unilaterally.

This shows they DO make mistakes, but refuse to admit that they are anything short of 100% perfect until their hands are forced.

If you were not a member here, you would NEVER have managed to get past their mantra of "you are a fraud, decision is final".

These mistakes, and the arrogant attitude of operators that they "never make mistakes" is why I often take the side of the player unless substantive evidence of wrongdoing emerges, such as a failed PAB and them being banned from the forum.

It's the same with many businesses, and many businesses that think "we don't make mistakes" have made some major howlers, and had to be dragged kicking and screaming by even BIGGER "bullies" such as Trading Standards, MP's, the Financial Ombudsman, etc to the table for their serving of humble pie. Some top staff have even faced CRIMINAL charges as a result of their "mistakes" - Severn Trent water was a case in point.

Business will ONLY look after their customers when they HAVE to, not because it is right. If they can wriggle out of spending money, they WILL.

It seems that mere suspicion leads to a guilty verdict without right of appeal, yet when WE claim that we have spotted something "suspicious" about the activities of the businesses, we are told that we are being "unreasonable" in drawing conclusions of guilt from such unsubstantiated evidence.

Many "suspect" that the evidence of our own eyes tells us that the games are not as random as they are made out to be, but we are told to "prove it beyond doubt" or stop making such ridiculous claims.

Had the poker players done this, AP and UB would STILL be cheating, and getting away with it. Only determined pursuit of their suspicions built a body of evidence that could not be explained away by the operators, and led to them being "busted", but sadly getting off very lightly because of their power and influence.

Players only have "power and influence" through force of numbers, and cooperation in looking at, and discussing, things that just don't look right.

If online operators want us to trust them, they need to show a willingness to trust us as a collective body of customers, and stop looking for opportunities to screw us over when we make minor slip-ups, and claim it is because we as a group harbour a large number of hardened fraudsters, and should simply put up with the fact that the innocent should sacrifice themselves for the good of the OPERATORS.

Even though we know the US argument for prohibition was a load of BS, the behaviour of some operators merely corroborates some of these BS claims that the DoJ tried to use to justify their efforts to rid the world of this industry.

[SlotMonster]

Excellent post, vinyl!

If online operators want us to trust them, they need to show a willingness to trust us as a collective body of customers, and stop looking for opportunities to screw us over when we make minor slip-ups, and claim it is because we as a group harbour a large number of hardened fraudsters, and should simply put up with the fact that the innocent should sacrifice themselves for the good of the OPERATORS.

I will print it out and and put on the wall at my workplace.