Bonus winnings rejected at Spin Palace

[thakrars]

Hi there,

I signed up to Spin Palace casino a couple of days ago on deposited £50, played a couple of pounds worth of bets and then realised that my balance was much higher than it should have been - I'd been awarded a £50 bonus. I called the support line immediately and queried this because I'd not been offered the bonus, and it was just automatically credited.

I was told that it is my responsibility to request them to withdraw it if I don't want it, and by betting money, despite not actually using the bonus funds (because I didn't lose either bet) I would still have to complete the wagering requirements if I want to withdraw any money. I had the option of resetting my account so I go back to my initial deposit with no bonus, but that would have meant forfeiting the £120 or so I'd just profited.

I asked what the bonus terms were and was told that I'd have to wager the bonus amount 30 and then I could withdraw it al. I thought it was a long shot, but since I was already £100+ up I thought it was worth a go, so I set one of the slots to play on autospin for 500 spins on £3. Couple of hours later turned out I was £350 up!

I requested the withdrawal and 2 days later, just now, recieved an email saying it was voided because I made bets that were more than 30% of the value of the bonus, which is true I did. But I specifically asked for the bonus terms on the phone and was only told that I had to wager it 30 x.

I accept that I have broken the terms and conditions, but my point is that I spoke to someone who was apparently a manager at the casino, and clearly asked him what the terms were for the bonus, having made it clear that I hadn't seen the terms, and he said to me quite clearly all I had to do was wager it 30 times. For that reason, surely I should be entitled to my winnings?

Would very much appreciate your thoughts!

Thank you

[Casinomeister]

Did you run this through the casino support? What did they say? Have you contacted the casino rep in this forum (As per instructions when posting complaints), has he gotten back to you yet with his answer?

Or are you just fishing for answers from other players?

The thing is, there is a process here for posting complaints in this forum. I appreciate it when members take the time to read and follow posted instructions. Thanks!

[thakrars]

Did you run this through the casino support? What did they say? Have you contacted the casino rep in this forum (As per instructions when posting complaints), has he gotten back to you yet with his answer?

Or are you just fishing for answers from other players?

The thing is, there is a process here for posting complaints in this forum. I appreciate it when members take the time to read and follow posted instructions. Thanks!

Hi,

I'm sorry I haven't read the rules, and will do so immediately.

I contacted the casino via email, and they won't respond to the point i've made about being misinformed by the CS, but just tell me I broke the terms.

And, I was really hoping to get other users thoughts on the situation; I didn't realise there was a casino rep here, so will try and get in touch now. Hopefully it can be resolved.

Thank you

[vinylweatherman]

Hi,

I'm sorry I haven't read the rules, and will do so immediately.

I contacted the casino via email, and they won't respond to the point i've made about being misinformed by the CS, but just tell me I broke the terms.

And, I was really hoping to get other users thoughts on the situation; I didn't realise there was a casino rep here, so will try and get in touch now. Hopefully it can be resolved.

Thank you

Yet again bad CS followed by CS who behave like parrots, rather than answer the questions, has created a spot of bad PR for a casino.

Many players do NOT have any idea that their even IS another means to deal with a problem other than through CS.

This also shows that the automatic addition of a bonus without explanation causes problems for players who are new to the industry.

Unless you knew what a bonus was, and had made a consious decision NOT to take it because you didn't like the terms, you would not necessarily know the procedure for dealing with a bonus that had been automatically credited.

Casino operators are so "in love" with bonuses that they think any player who willingly plays without one is somehow "ignorant", and needs protection from this through having the bonus thrust upon them. Another case (different casino) showed that support just kept interrupting a players' play offering a bonus, until in the end (despite saying "no thanks" a few times) the player accepted the bonus just to get the CS agent to quit bugging him and let him play.

Bonuses come with so many rules now that no place exists for an automated bonus unless the player has opted IN to such a procedure on their account.

Welcome bonuses in particular should always have to be claimed by the player, so that they have to tick an "I agree to the bonus terms" box before they get it.

If CS don't have the answer, they should not "bluff through" the question in order to make the player think they have been given the complete answer, but should tell the player that they should read the FULL terms before they play.

The bets that broke this 30% rule would be the ones made BEFORE the player realised what was going on, and the £3 slot spins after this WERE within the rules. If these bets were made BEFORE the bonus was credited, then the casino has no grounds for any action, nor to argue that the player "should have been aware" of any kind of implication of betting with a bonus. This information will be available in Playcheck - detailed view.

[thakrars]

Yet again bad CS followed by CS who behave like parrots, rather than answer the questions, has created a spot of bad PR for a casino.

Many players do NOT have any idea that their even IS another means to deal with a problem other than through CS.

This also shows that the automatic addition of a bonus without explanation causes problems for players who are new to the industry.

Unless you knew what a bonus was, and had made a consious decision NOT to take it because you didn't like the terms, you would not necessarily know the procedure for dealing with a bonus that had been automatically credited.

Casino operators are so "in love" with bonuses that they think any player who willingly plays without one is somehow "ignorant", and needs protection from this through having the bonus thrust upon them. Another case (different casino) showed that support just kept interrupting a players' play offering a bonus, until in the end (despite saying "no thanks" a few times) the player accepted the bonus just to get the CS agent to quit bugging him and let him play.

Bonuses come with so many rules now that no place exists for an automated bonus unless the player has opted IN to such a procedure on their account.

Welcome bonuses in particular should always have to be claimed by the player, so that they have to tick an "I agree to the bonus terms" box before they get it.

If CS don't have the answer, they should not "bluff through" the question in order to make the player think they have been given the complete answer, but should tell the player that they should read the FULL terms before they play.

The bets that broke this 30% rule would be the ones made BEFORE the player realised what was going on, and the £3 slot spins after this WERE within the rules. If these bets were made BEFORE the bonus was credited, then the casino has no grounds for any action, nor to argue that the player "should have been aware" of any kind of implication of betting with a bonus. This information will be available in Playcheck - detailed view.

Thanks for taking the time to reply! I don't think I was detailed enough in my original post because the bonus was credited immediately after I deposited, and after this I made a couple of small bets. Having won on these I also made at least one bet that would have gone over 30% the bonus, but still relatively small because I'd won the previous ones and even if I lost this I still would have remained above the amount I deposited as well as the bonus. Then I realised I'd been given a bonus so I spoke to the live chat support who were useless, and then rang the casino.

The person I spoke to first told me since I'd already started playing I wouldn't be able to remove the bonus or my winnings until I completed the wagering requirements; eventually he agreed to "reset" my account so all my winnings would be removed, as well as the bonus amount, and I could start fresh. I wasn't happy with this, having made a nice profit already and proceeded to ask him what the terms of the bonus are (he was well aware that I hadn't seen the terms) and he said to me that all I had to do was wager it 30 x. We discussed this for around 10 minutes and I decided that I would go ahead and keep the bonus, and give wagering it a go.

I then opened up one of their slots and put it on autospin for the number of spins I needed to complete the requirements. On a couple of occasions it seemed like I was going to lose my money, well before being near to completing the requirements so I put a couple of bets on roulette (also over the 30% of the bonus) and was lucky enough to eventually complete all the requirements.

I don't think this changes anything though because either way I was misinformed by their customer service rep. Moreover, he also lied in saying that he was a manager, because when I called today and spoke to someone else, they told me that he was just a standard agent.

I've messaged the rep so hopefully it all gets resolved, but if not I won't hesitate in taking them to court in the UK.

[adam1976]

with 200euros bonous i cashed out 14.000 euros very easy and very fast from spin palace

[vinylweatherman]

Thanks for taking the time to reply! I don't think I was detailed enough in my original post because the bonus was credited immediately after I deposited, and after this I made a couple of small bets. Having won on these I also made at least one bet that would have gone over 30% the bonus, but still relatively small because I'd won the previous ones and even if I lost this I still would have remained above the amount I deposited as well as the bonus. Then I realised I'd been given a bonus so I spoke to the live chat support who were useless, and then rang the casino.

Eh?

The person I spoke to first told me since I'd already started playing I wouldn't be able to remove the bonus or my winnings until I completed the wagering requirements; eventually he agreed to "reset" my account so all my winnings would be removed, as well as the bonus amount, and I could start fresh. I wasn't happy with this, having made a nice profit already and proceeded to ask him what the terms of the bonus are (he was well aware that I hadn't seen the terms) and he said to me that all I had to do was wager it 30 x. We discussed this for around 10 minutes and I decided that I would go ahead and keep the bonus, and give wagering it a go.

I then opened up one of their slots and put it on autospin for the number of spins I needed to complete the requirements. On a couple of occasions it seemed like I was going to lose my money, well before being near to completing the requirements so I put a couple of bets on roulette (also over the 30% of the bonus) and was lucky enough to eventually complete all the requirements.

This was the "nail in the coffin". At this point, you had formally accepted the bonus. Had you not made these bets, you would probably not have had this problem.

I don't think this changes anything though because either way I was misinformed by their customer service rep. Moreover, he also lied in saying that he was a manager, because when I called today and spoke to someone else, they told me that he was just a standard agent.

I've messaged the rep so hopefully it all gets resolved, but if not I won't hesitate in taking them to court in the UK.

These last points should be a matter of record. Live chat keeps a record of what was said, so these points can be checked out. You should have kept your own record too. Without such evidence, it is your word against his, and the rep is going to believe the CS agent, rather than you, without any substantive evidence being available.

If the rep at any time asked you to check the terms for this bonus after you accepted it, you are likely to be "screwed", even though the rep didn't quote the 30% term at the time.

If your initial bet exceeded the amount of your deposit (£50) you are also screwed, as this shows you were well aware that your balance had been inflated (by the bonus having been added) - even if you didn't know it was the welcome bonus, nor the terms for it.

Playcheck should throw some light on the timings, as well as the gameplay.

There is also a matter of determining whether it is "reasonable to believe" that you didn't know what was going on, and information from other casinos within the Palace group can be checked for this. If you had the same issue at, say, Ruby Fortune, and they let you off, it would be "reasonable to assume" that you knew what was happening at Spin Palace, making your plea of ignorance less likely to work in your favour.

[thakrars]

These last points should be a matter of record. Live chat keeps a record of what was said, so these points can be checked out. You should have kept your own record too. Without such evidence, it is your word against his, and the rep is going to believe the CS agent, rather than you, without any substantive evidence being available.

If the rep at any time asked you to check the terms for this bonus after you accepted it, you are likely to be "screwed", even though the rep didn't quote the 30% term at the time.

If your initial bet exceeded the amount of your deposit (£50) you are also screwed, as this shows you were well aware that your balance had been inflated (by the bonus having been added) - even if you didn't know it was the welcome bonus, nor the terms for it.

Playcheck should throw some light on the timings, as well as the gameplay.

There is also a matter of determining whether it is "reasonable to believe" that you didn't know what was going on, and information from other casinos within the Palace group can be checked for this. If you had the same issue at, say, Ruby Fortune, and they let you off, it would be "reasonable to assume" that you knew what was happening at Spin Palace, making your plea of ignorance less likely to work in your favour.

The conversation with the "manager" was done on the phone, because when I spoke to live support they were no help. He certainly didn't tell me to check the terms; my initial bet didn't exceed the amount of my deposit; and I've never signed up to a Palace Group casino so this experience is completely new to me!

The Palace Group rep hasn't had any activity on his account here since the end of March, so I don't think he'll have seen this or my PM - is there any other way to get their attention?

Thank you

[vinylweatherman]

The conversation with the "manager" was done on the phone, because when I spoke to live support they were no help. He certainly didn't tell me to check the terms; my initial bet didn't exceed the amount of my deposit; and I've never signed up to a Palace Group casino so this experience is completely new to me!

The Palace Group rep hasn't had any activity on his account here since the end of March, so I don't think he'll have seen this or my PM - is there any other way to get their attention?

Thank you

Contact Max to tell him the rep is not responding, HOWEVER, you have to give the rep TIME to respond, and this is measured from when you sent the PM, rather than when he last logged in.

When a PM is sent, an email is sent to the rep to tell them they have a PM. As this is their job, they will NOT be dealing with this over a weekend or bank holiday, so if the PM was sent on Friday, you have yet to allow enough time for a response.

Phonecalls are also recorded, provided they are made through the proper channels, which would be the case if you phoned CS.

Even if the rep lied, it is not enough on it's own to win your case, the lie would have to be the reason you didn't see a problem with your play, and whether the rep was a manager or a supervisor makes little difference, it is what he said that matters.

"Manager" is also rather vague, he may have been the manager of that shift at the call centre, rather than of the CASINO. If this is the case, he didn't lie - rather you asked the wrong question, or there was an innocent misunderstanding between you.

There is another process, the PAB, however there is a set of rules, and you have already broken a couple of them. The main rule is that you have to make a choice between fighting it out in the forum, OR making a PAB.

If you think you might want to use the PAB route, you need to stop posting further about this right now, and await an initial answer from the rep.

You have provided enough detail for a broad understanding of how this problem came about, but further posts that merely rake over this tale, and take potshots at the casino, will very quickly wreck your chances of a good result via PAB.

In cases where there has been too much aired on the forum, Max will simply refuse to take on the PAB, and has done so in some cases, and publicly so on the forum.