Palace Group Rules Shenanigans

[KasinoKing]

I dont know how to do that but I have a screen shot of the winningest hand and I had 60 on Pair plus and 30 on Ante.
Ant

So your last bet was £90 - so you were lying in your first post then?:

I made a new account, deposited £150 and got a 100% matching bonus. Balance £300. Ive checked their terms and conditions and I can play 3 Card Poker which is great because thats what I normally play at land based casinos.

1st Hand, bet 120, call - lose.
2nd Hand, bet 60, fold
3rd Hand, bet 90, fold
4th Hand bet my remaining 30 quid and hit a straight flush! Happy Day! £2700.

120+60+90+30 = 300, so where did the other £60 come from?

It's very obvious you knew what you were doing and were playing expecting to have a positive EV from the bonus.

That doesn't change the fact that the casino should pay in my opinion, if they want to stop it they should put betting limits in when a bonus is active.

Totally 110% agree! (With both sentences).
When o when o when are casinos going to write clear unambiguous terms which say exactly what players can not do, or better still, use their software to make it impossible...???
Then we would NEVER have to see another thread like this ever again and everybody would live happily ever after for all eternity!

Sheeeesh!

[funky_seagull]

I notice when I take a bonus with some MG casinos that I am restricted by the size of bet I can place on games during time of wagering requirements. This avoids me breaking the term by ensuring I cannot place bets larger than a percentage of my balance. So it must be possible for all MG casinos to implement this in their software or request it from MG.

I think programming the software to disallow certain kinds of bets &/or games during times of bonus wagering requirements which the casino would call bonus abuse is the way to go. A simple message saying sorry this bet is not allowed until wagering requirements have been met will do. It stops confusion later on if some players haven't read the extremely long tiring set of commandments which are terms and conditions. And means nobody can be accused of bonus abuse because the software has declined those bets deemed by the casino to be of inappropiate spirit, and caused them to have never been placed. It will kill bonus abuse in its tracks. I guess it depends on how much it costs to do this. But feel it is the logical way forward and is possible because there are casinos which do this.

Also it disturbed me to read of an accredited casino, sending out an email to entice a player into reversing their withdrawal.

I feel the term quoted is too vague. It is the exact same one that crops up in lots of MG casinos. I hate the term. It is very difficult to understand where the casino is coming from. It needs to be made clearer. With play examples being illustated to show what the casino means by this term if possible. It seems a lot of casinos are a bit lazy and just copy the same terms and conditions from everyone else. Cause they are identical in the way they are phrased.

Each individual casino needs to put more effort into making these binding agreements more reader friendly and easy to understand, and in terms which appear vague, they should show clear examples of what they're talking about.

[thelawnet]

When you have deposited 150 and have a 2700 balance, spinning at 0.2/spin is as low risk as it gets. Of course you will most likely lose some and there will be variance but it's still a very good way to clear the wr with a guaranteed profit.

Well not quite.

£0.25/spin on regular Double Magic is lower variance than what this player played, which I assume is 9 slots of £0.20 each. (I assume £1.60 is an error, I'm guessing he played £1.80/spin). He could have done 9 lines at 1 * 10p each, which would have been lower risk,but same house edge.

What the megaspin does do is get through the wagering quicker.

But by no means is this the lowest variance choice. You could play 1p, 9p, whatever on Thunderstruck.

As I said I think the casino should pay if they take the bet which they did. I just want to put it in perspective, the way this player played is the reason the casinos have these kind of rules to start with and it's exactly what the rules are there to stop.

Do people play like this without a bonus? I guess not, because if they win they are allowed to withdraw.

The point to me is that players do this because they've taken a chance, they've won, then they want to take their winnings and leave. But they're not allowed to do this, so they adopt a balance-preservation strategy. Who wants to win then see it all evaporate? Which doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

[thelawnet]

I dont know how to do that but I have a screen shot of the winningest hand and I had 60 on Pair plus and 30 on Ante.

Ant

Ok that makes more sense:

Balance £120

£60 on Pair Plus
£30 on Ante
£30 on Play

Ante + play bet returns £30 + £30 + £210 = £270

Pair Plus bet returns £60 + £60 * 40 = £2460

= £2730
£2610 win, £120 wagered

So you must have had at least £120 in your balance before this bet

Could you please post your accurate bet history?

[Palace Group]

Firstly to address a few additional points raised in this thread:
30. Spin Palace Casino reserves the right to pay all Progressive Jackpot winnings in US dollars. The amount to be paid, will be determined by the US Dollar Progressive Jackpot amount on the Progressive Game played, at the time the jackpot was won.
We pay progressives in the currency the player played in. The term does need updating and will be done so accordingly.

The Finnish site will be updated to have the same terms as the rest of our the casino sites. Thank you for pointing these out.

In response to the original post.

We have been targeted and abused by a number of players using certain betting patterns (which for obvious reasons I cannot divulge). We do not take the bets at face value but delve into the actual game play to determine whether someone has transgressed the terms and conditions or not.
The problems come in when we look at trends and play and see definite signs that someone is betting a certain way after receiving bonus money which is not in the spirit of fair play and not the reason we give offers and bonuses to our players.
Our terms do state what we do not allow and if players would like to clarify what they may or may not do prior to claiming and betting they are welcome to contact us.
The 20% bonus offer on the reversal was an error and should not have been sent out. This does not detract that once the withdrawal was submitted and analysed the player did in fact break terms which they agreed to when registering with us.
Players who play with us know we are a reputable group who does not need to revert to any underhand tactics. We do however strongly believe that a business needs to protect itself.

Regards,

The Palace Group

[deucebag]

The casino needs to revise this term - it should be majority of deposit not balance. I think most everyone would agree that this is fair, right?

Ideally I think the software should set betting limits, players should not have to watch out for traps. Some MGs even appear to have table limits automatically adjusted depending on bonus. I think a lot of new players are put off by complicated terms and conditions such as this.

If they do have this term that you can only bet a certain percentage of the deposit amount/starting balance, they need to define what counts as a bet. Is it only the initial bet, or are doubles, splits, raises and calls at later stages of the hand included in the max bet amount?

[spearmaster]

Firstly to address a few additional points raised in this thread:
30. Spin Palace Casino reserves the right to pay all Progressive Jackpot winnings in US dollars. The amount to be paid, will be determined by the US Dollar Progressive Jackpot amount on the Progressive Game played, at the time the jackpot was won.
We pay progressives in the currency the player played in. The term does need updating and will be done so accordingly.

The Finnish site will be updated to have the same terms as the rest of our the casino sites. Thank you for pointing these out.

In response to the original post.

We have been targeted and abused by a number of players using certain betting patterns (which for obvious reasons I cannot divulge). We do not take the bets at face value but delve into the actual game play to determine whether someone has transgressed the terms and conditions or not.
The problems come in when we look at trends and play and see definite signs that someone is betting a certain way after receiving bonus money which is not in the spirit of fair play and not the reason we give offers and bonuses to our players.
Our terms do state what we do not allow and if players would like to clarify what they may or may not do prior to claiming and betting they are welcome to contact us.
The 20% bonus offer on the reversal was an error and should not have been sent out. This does not detract that once the withdrawal was submitted and analysed the player did in fact break terms which they agreed to when registering with us.
Players who play with us know we are a reputable group who does not need to revert to any underhand tactics. We do however strongly believe that a business needs to protect itself.

Regards,

The Palace Group

Would you mind addressing the fact that the term "majority of account balance and bonus" is mathematically IMPOSSIBLE to avoid breaching when a player makes a bet of the remainder of his balance, even if it's only ONE CENT?

[spearmaster]

Ideally I think the software should set betting limits, players should not have to watch out for traps. Some MGs even appear to have table limits automatically adjusted depending on bonus. I think a lot of new players are put off by complicated terms and conditions such as this.

If they do have this term that you can only bet a certain percentage of the deposit amount/starting balance, they need to define what counts as a bet. Is it only the initial bet, or are doubles, splits, raises and calls at later stages of the hand included in the max bet amount?

It must necessarily be only the original bet - since all further bets are optional.

[Palace Group]

Of course:

I mentioned that we go into detail to check accounts and if it is the remaining balance used for a small bet that is fine.

Those players who have been playing with us for years know we are fair and upfront with what we do.
There are however cases where intentions are deliberate and terms are broken and these are the ones acted upon.

Hopefully this answers your question Spearmaster.

Regards,

The Palace Group

[thelawnet]

It must necessarily be only the original bet - since all further bets are optional.

Hmm, I think that certain games are different. For some games, you HAVE to pay more to get paid. Like casino hold em, three card poker ante + play bet, and some others.

Every brand of casino software will, with $3 in your balance, let you bet $3 on blackjack. But they won't necessarily let you bet $3 on casino hold em. Playtech limits you to 1/3 of your balance, because you NEED the extra cash to get paid.

It's not unreasonable to consider the amount wagered as the sum of ante+play for these purposes on 3 card poker. For blackjack, however, it's definitely only the original bet.