Confused re:JackpotFactory Bonus requirements & Tournaments

[vinylweatherman]

They have clarified that reaching a ZERO balance does NOT clear remaining WR on a bonus you no longer have (because you lost the lot!).

This neatly ACCOMMODATES the bug, such that it is now a RULE of Clearplay bonuses. MG now do not need to fix anything (other than the tournaments), rather they have decided that they will apply "carry over" of WR where the bonus system implements it.

To counter this, you need to see if they STILL have an explicit term that states that reaching a ZERO balance VOIDS any outstanding WR, as if they do these two terms contradict each other, and this can be taken to eCogra, who have already dealt with complaints around this bug in the system.

The bug in this case is because the system sees a tournament payout as a "win", and even on a ZERO balance, it will reactivate the WR from the previous bonus used. However, tournaments are supposed to be a separate game, and maybe the answer is to claim bonuses in one account, and use another for the tournaments. JF bonuses are applicable once per PLAYER, not usually per CASINO.

For example, claim your bonus at All Slots, but play a cash tournament at All Jackpots. If you bust at All Slots before meeting WR, your tournament win in All Jackpots will be paid in cash, and can be withdrawn.

Your next deposit at All Slots MAY reactivate the old bonus WR, but as it is a bug, this is unpredictable. Interestingly, if you leave a NON ZERO but small residual balance, such as 1.85 credits, then the bug works IN YOUR FAVOUR, as the small BONUS residual converts to CASH along with the next deposit, and wipes the WR

This is CLEARLY a bug with this behaviour!

[Jufo]

Originally Posted by vbdragon

BONUSES CANNOT BE USED IN TOURNAMENTS... so,
No advantage is gained by the player .. irrespective of what is ocurring in the "normal casino operations area"
Therefore, any wins in the tournaments should be credited to the "cash account".

There IS a potential advantage though. If you have bonus in your balance you could invest each win from this bonus into tournaments while keeping only the bonus in your account. This is effectively the same as if you could withdraw each win and keep betting only the bonus until you lose it. I think the bonus system fix tries to prevent this from happening.

[vbdragon]

I can see & understand what your saying about the POTENTIAL, but you have to continually win to be able to use this strategy.
If I could get a guarantee that I would win, I suppose this would be a viable option and a "hole" that the Casino could legitimately plug.
I don't mean to be a smart-ass, but as the potential to continually win & use the winnings to enter the tournaments is the same odds as me growing wings & flying .. it's hardly justification for the T&Cs being changed.

There is no mention in the T&Cs as to when the WR is reset nor what happens to the WR when an account reaches a zero balance.
Just that the Casino's decision is final... so..
I think this is now a "dead horse" subject, so I'll stop flogging it!

Again, thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread.


Cheers!

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by Jufo

There IS a potential advantage though. If you have bonus in your balance you could invest each win from this bonus into tournaments while keeping only the bonus in your account. This is effectively the same as if you could withdraw each win and keep betting only the bonus until you lose it. I think the bonus system fix tries to prevent this from happening.

Trust a Finn to spot that - no wonder so many casinos BAN Finland


You don't have to WIN a prize though to gain an advantage, nor even play for that matter, you merely have to ENTER an "open" tournament.

This was the kind of exploit MG tried to plug after the initial implementation of the bonus system. Originally, any funds arriving on top of a balance that was wholly bonus balance would appear as cash on top of the CURRENT bonus balance. This had the effect of cancelling SOME of the outstanding WR of a current bonus, and could presumably offer an advantage for players who played with relatively large bets on high variance games.
A cash tournament prize would have the same effect. The most useful time for exploiting this loophole was with a high percentage bonus, which is normally the SUB.

MG fixed this aspect of the loophole, but they cocked it up, and it preserves WR carry over in situations where it is NOT applicable, as well as when it should be.

The tournaments make the loophole even bigger, with the potential to enter a tournament or several with the CASH from the SUB, and then play with the BONUS to either clear WR and bust. If done quickly, players could withdraw from the tournaments they had entered, and then withdraw their initial deposit - in effect, playing the SUB as a no-deposit bonus.

Now, this doesn't work, as when you withdraw from the tournaments your funds will be bonus funds to reflect any unfinished WR. Sadly, the system cannot differentiate between an attempt to manipulate the system, and a player GENUINELY zeroing out and either making a fresh deposit or winning a CASH prize.

With a little more work, MG could have done this better, and even though there was the need for a quick fix at first, they have had ample time now to have done a proper fix.

This loophole is also behind the fact that sometimes you CANNOT withdraw from a tournament, even though the rules say you should be able to do so until they start. This was because some players who were given free entries to tournaments would withdraw instead of playing their free entry, and pocket the free cash. The 20K weekender saw a fair bit of this, so a fudge was implemented to prevent this exploit. Those who complained at the time were quite possibly "trying it on", although it may be that players who had PAID to enter could not withdraw, and those who won through a feeder felt they SHOULD be allowed to take the $20 rather than play.

Casinos (well, JF only really), give out free entries because they want those players to PLAY, it must have been irksome when some players discovered this loophole, and started helping themselves to a free $20 each weekend.