Betfair Casino bonus problem - bogus PAB - bot use

[GaryWatson]

As Roar said, Bot play will not affect the outcome of the gameplay.

I can't see an issue with that other than a player setting a bot to fullfil playthrough requirements, either way, the playthrough should really be set in a way to ensure a player does not have a % advantage buy covering the playthrough only.

Also, what is considered bot use, the auto play button?

I can understand the banning of bot use in skill games but not casino games. I dont get it

[Jufo]

Originally Posted by Casinomeister

Do you have a copy of that email? I'd like to see it. Thanks!

I PM'd you some of the e-mails I received.

[Roar]

Originally Posted by Casinomeister

I'm pretty sure that Chartwell does record gameplay.

The bottom line is that the casino detected bot play, which is clearly forbidden in their terms and conditions. Every company has a right to protect itself from players who use bots, no matter the reason. If they don't want that play, and this is explicit in their terms and conditions, then don't use bots.

I don't allow members to sign up using bots in this forum. This is one of the reasons that the sign-up process is moderated; each sign-up is reviewed. If I had the forum wide open for anyone to join, the numbers would be way out of whack. I delete 3-5 bogus sign-ups a day - all bots or potential spammers. It's my right to make this rule.

Betfair (and every casino that I know) has the same rule. They don't want bot play. If they detect bot play - they'll close the account.

If this player wants to protest this, the best course of action is to contact the casino's licensing jurisdiction. There is an official process available for solving these problems; it's up to players to utilize these agencies and make them earn their pay.

Firstly, the Forum sign-up process using a bot would be considered a SPAM issue and can be distinguished from the subject of an individual player seeking an enhanced online gaming experience.

Secondly, every Casino does not prohibit the use of a Bot. Microgaming give you a bot to play with such is the true reality of the situation. A bot increases the speed at which games can be played. More games, more wagers, more turnover, more player losses, more player deposits, more casino profit yada yada yada.........

The Casino did not detect bot play. The Casino claimed it detected bot play. Big difference. This is a Casino that can not furnish Play logs of game history. Why would you believe they could detect bot play?

I agree the only practical recourse for a disaffected player is Maltese LGA however hopeless that particular situation might be (which is another lamentable online gaming story).

It would be good to see these online gaming issues dealt with by regulatory authorities but for the moment they seem to be too busy collecting Licensing fees.

/

[chuchu59]

Originally Posted by Casinomeister

She already PABd

The casino's investigation detected "bot" play for seven hours.

This breaches their terms and conditions:

There are 2 issues here, bonus abuse and wagering thru 'bot' play. The use of 'bot play' does not necessarily equate to bonus abuse but rather the games placed thru robot play should be declared null and void. In case Betfair insists that there was a robot involved, it should reinstate the balance (together with bonus) to where it was before 'bot play' was detected.

[Casinomeister]

Even though MGS incorporates a "bot" in their games (the auto play feature), they still forbid players from using their own robot programs:

(Enter Casino Name) reserves the right, in its unfettered discretion, to void any winnings and confiscate any balance in your Casino account in any of the following circumstances:

If you are found cheating or if it is determined by (enter casino name) that you have employed or made use of a system (including machines, computers, software or other automated systems) designed specifically to defeat the Casino;

Bots are designed to defeat the system. They do what players can't do - play for an unlimited amount of time without a break. We can argue until the cows come home whether or not bots are an effective way to break the bank - that's not the issue here. (In my opinion, you have to be an idiot to use a bot since it only will make you lose your money faster - the house has the edge, right? )

The issue is that the casino has the right to forbid this play when detected. My example by the way concerning blocking bots and potential spammers from the forum was analogous to the rights of companies to forbid whatever activity they don't desire - not actual bots themselves.

Then of course we have the issue of whether or not Chartwell casinos can effectively detect this sort of thing. I hope this thread can resolve this question.

[Komodo]

Originally Posted by GaryWatson

As Roar said, Bot play will not affect the outcome of the gameplay.

I can't see an issue with that other than a player setting a bot to fullfil playthrough requirements, either way, the playthrough should really be set in a way to ensure a player does not have a % advantage buy covering the playthrough only.

Also, what is considered bot use, the auto play button?

I can understand the banning of bot use in skill games but not casino games. I dont get it

I can tell you the issue here. A casino site migth offer a 100$ bonus with a wagering condition of 5000$ overall. For a 5000$ wager youre expected to lose about 25$ in BJ and a few other games,so you are expected to earn about 75$ on that bonus, probably a bit less, counting misclicks and non-optimal plays.
And it migth take a month or so even with 5$ bets since its 1000 hands that has to be played, so the income its not that great, but at least you win something, have some fun , and dont have to lose money overall like most casino players do.

However, with a bot its something else, because the whole wagering can be done without any work, with optimal play and within just a few min instead of a whole month!

[zuga]

Originally Posted by Komodo

And it migth take a month or so even with 5$ bets since its 1000 hands that has to be played, so the income its not that great, but at least you win something, have some fun , and dont have to lose money overall like most casino players do.

It would take a couple of days at most by grinding $1 a hand...if playing $5 a hand youll meet WR in less then 12h ..depending on software speed...

[Komodo]

Originally Posted by zuga

It would take a couple of days at most by grinding $1 a hand...if playing $5 a hand youll meet WR in less then 12h ..depending on software speed...

yeh, rigth... I would like to see you play 5000 hands in just a couple of days
Also Im pretty certain no human bein on this planet can play BJ for 12 straigth hours with optimal strategy in every hand.

[Roar]

Originally Posted by Casinomeister

Even though MGS incorporates a "bot" in their games (the auto play feature), they still forbid players from using their own robot programs:

(Enter Casino Name) reserves the right, in its unfettered discretion, to void any winnings and confiscate any balance in your Casino account in any of the following circumstances:

If you are found cheating or if it is determined by (enter casino name) that you have employed or made use of a system (including machines, computers, software or other automated systems) designed specifically to defeat the Casino;


Bots are designed to defeat the system. They do what players can't do - play for an unlimited amount of time without a break. We can argue until the cows come home whether or not bots are an effective way to break the bank - that's not the issue here. (In my opinion, you have to be an idiot to use a bot since it only will make you lose your money faster - the house has the edge, right? )

No problems with the logic on the last point.

But MG are not concerned with say BJ playing bots in any way shape or form. MG are concerned with a manipulation of the game/software so that it operates other than 'normally'. Besides, the only 'bots' I am familiar with are in no way designed or operated to either defeat or cheat the system.

You can beat a game with a bonus - not a 'bot'. The 'bot' is innocent. Don't blame the 'bot'.

BTW - where is Red Army?? I hope he hasn't changed his colors........to a shade of say...................yellowish.

Only kidding big Red. Come on, we're waiting for you to get involved here.

//

[Komodo]

You beat the game with bot+bonus. Anything unclear?
Just the bonus wont help, since you still have to do all the work.
The bot is not innocent, since it does all the work and also employs optimal strategy which you probably dont.