[CLOSED] Misleading Bellerock terms, DO NOT play there.

[RobWin]

Ok, so my analogy sucks. The point remains the same though, and is actually underscored by your coupon situation, that they're different ballgames, at least for the foreseeable future. What flies at a B&M is DOA online, and vice versa. We all know this, there's nothing to debate there.

As to the ever-changing T&Cs ya, sure, I agree with you, it's a pain. And it is who's responsibility to punish the casinos for this and get them to behave in some different manner? We're starting to get into windmill territory here if you ask me.

Well I would hope that eCOGRA would but it appears that they are more contractor friendly in layman's terms than they are an impartial body...

[maxd]

Well I would hope that eCOGRA would but it appears that they are more contractor friendly in layman's terms than they are an impartial body...

For one, I don't think hunting down and punishing casinos for having imperfect sign-up procedures is eCOGRA's mandate.

And two, I think you're selling them far short of what they actually do and the positive impact they have. Are they perfect? No, I reckon not. Are they any better than the other so-called industry overseers and do they have a net positive impact on the industry? Oh yes! Ok then, give them some slack and let them do their thing.

[RobWin]

For one, I don't think hunting down and punishing casinos for having imperfect sign-up procedures is eCOGRA's mandate.

And two, I think you're selling them far short of what they actually do and the positive impact they have. Are they perfect? No, I reckon not. Are they any better than the other so-called industry overseers and do they have a net positive impact on the industry? Oh yes! Ok then, give them some slack and let them do their thing.

Max, I was not trying at all to sell eCOGRA short, if that's the way you read into my statement, then maybe I was not clear in writing it because I think eCOGRA is great for this industry and right now there is no one else out there that even compares to their services but in my previous statement regarding eCOGRA, here is the particular "Generally accepted Practices" as stated in the eCOGRA GENERALLY ACCEPTED PRACTICES (eGAP) CASINOS that were Approved 26, September 2007 and the statement I made was in regards to the two rule statements published below, as I see it Bellerock has clearly violated both of these rules....

113 Responsible Advertising and Promotions



113.R.4 Terms and conditions applicable to promotional activities shall be clearly displayed and shall not be unreasonably altered subsequent to the wagering activity.


and


113.R.5 Standard terms and conditions shall include the last date published, and promotional terms and conditions shall include the last date and time published.

[BBKPoker]

It boils down to the demands of the player - instant gratification. The player expects that bonus immediately. Operating a casino is extremely competitive, and if you don't have a leading edge on satisfying a player, they will click away to somewhere else.

The reason I disagree (respectfully as always) with this, is that Bellerock promotional bonuses (at least SUBS) don't get credited for at least 1 hour after you signup anyway. There's no reason that an hour isn't enough time for a casino representative to do a simple email/name check and determine that a player is not eligible, and I imagine that unless a player is specifically using tactics like using a different email address or phone number to register an account, then there is no reason not to exclude them manually (and in reality, I think this can probably be automated as well).

Even if they did something like register with a different email address or phone number, Bellerock still requires a deposit prior to claiming a bonus, and they should be able to exclude based on multiple accounts using the same payment method.

Finally, if the player manages to falsify enough information to register an account and claim a bonus, that is a lot more telling of fraudulent behavior than a player who simply registers an account at five different sites in a single group.

[GaryWatson]

Since Ive not been cut off yet, i'll butt in. Sure, the likes of Ecogra cant deal with individual cases as it would be far too time consuming, so congrats to the Casinomeister staff for bridging the gap, but these are standard terms which are being manipulated. Its more than just to favor the sites, its bordering on dishonest. It wouldnt be tolerated offline & as online regulators I feel it is Ecogra's duty to clarify standard rules. To ensure fair play. Certain sites are neglecting their security checks until its time to pay out. This is not acceptable practice. Consumer Law would be a good place to start & its so off the mark at the moment. I think most of the sneaky terms started getting enforced after UIGEA. It has become a stream of income for certain sites & shows up the dark side of the industry

[BBKPoker]

I've asked the Bellerock representative to clarify when the 100x rollover requirements were added.

He told me that they've been existence since 2004. I am certain that this is not the case, and it was easy enough to verify by doing a simple check of the archived web pages of jackpotcity.com's terms and conditions.

So, when specifically did this group start requiring players to roll their signup bonuses 100 times over before claiming a bonus at another group? No one who has posted in this thread has expressed anything but surprise at these terms, so it would seem to me that this was a recent addition.

[maxd]

Since it looks like the OP has taken a walk on this one and the issue is pretty much done anyway I'm going to mark it "Closed".

[BBKPoker]

Since it looks like the OP has taken a walk on this one and the issue is pretty much done anyway I'm going to mark it "Closed".

There's still a lot that hasn't been resolved regarding when the terms were updated, and I'd like to hear a response from the rep as to when they added the 100 times rollover, since the answer I got from bellerock does not match their archived terms pages.

[vinylweatherman]

This 100x Rollover was NOT ADDED IN 2004!!!!

I played long before EZBonus, and when BelleRock had more casinos. The terms and conditions were related to each individual casino, and the current group structure was far more tenuous than now. It was hard to find out that all these different casinos came under the brand "BelleRock", as they handled everything through the individual websites. Later, they brought out the "Belle Rock Buddy", and made players aware of a formal linkage between all the sites. The Buddy allowed the linking of all accounts together for promotional purposes, and it is likely that this lead to the eventual introduction of the one SUB for the group rule, although I don't recall this term ever being used till this thread surfaced.
I certainly did not notice this term, as it is not included in the ever changing PROMOTIONAL terms, but as an item under GENERAL terms, where changes are far less frequent, and do not normally affect existing players.

Casinos should be careful about making such statements, as looking at archived webpages can reveal whether such terms existed at particular points in the past. In this case, showing that this term does not exist on archived pages from 2005 or 2006 would show that this statement is false, and this then throws doubts on the credibility of other statements from the casino.

[peteyweestro]

they are freaking lying,full stop