Royalvegas confiscated 8000 Euros - fraudulent claim

[chuchu59]

I dont know what the actual reasons for disallowing the winnings are ie bonus abusing or multiple accounts. The casinos offer bonuses to attract people to play and they hope that the players will play a large number of hands with reasonably-sized bets. The typical abuser is after the bonus and will try to keep it intact thru grinding out the WRs so this accusation is not valid. As for multiple accounts, this is also associated with bonuses but if this player bets big and furious, he is after much more than the bonus itself and can be regarded as a true player. It's as if he used the bonus as a springboard to propel him to bet at higher levels immediately.

I really want to know what kind of players the casinos had in mind when offering bonuses. Unless there is more to it, this is just a simple case where the player was offered a bonus and with the house's money he bet big and won. The only thing is he didnt have to double up after his first bet of 100 and could start with 200 bets right away.

[Casinomeister]

Casinomeister,
Why is it that you instantly jump on the back of the casinos? Especially a BS operation like Fortune Lounge. You are saying that he abused the bonus betting 200 a hand on 3CP? When he runs his balance all the way up to 8000 on a 100 bonus, how can he be abusing the bonus? He was clearly just doing some high stakes gambling, and that would seem like just the kind of person a casino would want playing at their operation. What isn't bonus abuse? Betting .25 a hand on keno until your balance is dwindled away? Or is that still a little abusey for you?

Quite honestly its a load of crap that a casino can do business in this manner and you are right behind them, backing them the whole way. If you aren't going to do anything about it, tell him that FL is a bunch of crooks and he shouldn't be playing there. But certainly don't blame him for abusing the bonus. Those rules in the T&C are a catch all, "we can do whatever we want" clause. It seems like 3/4 of the microgamings out there are rogue, and no one is doing anything about it. Not eCogra, and not you, the "watchdog" and "player advocate".

Brian, you did some great work in the past and I really think you were in it to help the players. But in the recent months it doesn't seem like you have done anything but take the side of the casino and sit back and collect your affiliate revenue. What changed?

I'm taking a few moments tonight to respond to your post.

Number one: If you had bothered to actually read my original response, I was pointing out to the OP why the casino probably closed his account. I was not siding with anyone.

Another thing, apparently this guy is being accused of fraud. I am not privy to his account or why his account was closed. I stated that eCOGRA is privy to these things. If the guy PABs via here, I can see if I can check this out myself. Bit honestly, I would probably be wasting my time.

Another thing, I was one of the most outspoken persons concerning the FL fiasco last Spring, and probably the first webmaster to remove them from a major website. To imply that I am just sitting around here not giving a damn or not doing a damn thing is probably the stupidest comment I've read in a long time. Obviously you haven't a clue to what I am all about.

I don't side with a player just because he's a player. It's a shame that a number of you can't get past this, but it's always been this way. If a player fails to read the terms and conditions, or decides he is not going to abide by them - then he is pretty much SOL. I don't make the rules, the casinos do. It's up to the player to abide by these, and if a player does not understand why he/she has been locked out, then I will try to explain why - like I did here.

Apparently, you understand this as me taking sides. Perhaps you should read my posts a bit more carefully before jumping to conclusions.

The bottom line is players who commit fraud or purposely break the casino T&Cs deserve no pity. And I should make it clear that they won't get it here.

[Casinomeister]

In just the last 3 threads on this board regarding Casino Rewards, Breakaway and this post it is apparent that Bryan is stressed out or not feeling really like a player advocate. It at least looks like Bryan needs a hug. It must be incredibly frustrating when the people who pay you become more and more of a chore to make look good or even legitimate for that matter, while all of the players that use them are getting stolen from and taken advantage of. I know this is his board and that its rude to suggest but gmbpldam has more than a valid point. It appears to the common reader that Bryan does jump immdiately on the side of the casinos that he promotes and not to the side of the players.

Cases in point:
One last point:

Why is it bad to point out the obvious about ecogra and tex reese being worthless? Clearly they have shown that already. Many players were allowed to be stolen from based on playing style before it was a rule. Now the rules are totally subjective and a joke - apparently so is tex and ecogra since there is no player protection. Instead of saying what you may not be able to do they should spell out exactly what you CAN and be specific about it. Subjectivity in these cases is a joke. No terms are being broken.

Most of these cases involve casinos not even listed here, so why do you imply that this is affecting me monetarily?

Casino Rewards has never been listed here
Fortune Lounge was removed last Spring because of a similar problem
The Scifi casino group has never been listed here.
The Bellerock group is listed here - and has been here for years

So what's your point? Do you not understand that I am explaining the casino rules? If a casino states clearly "...placing single bets using your entire or the majority of your account balance, where the majority of that balance is made up of bonus balance..." that this will cause problems, how is this subjective?

I have always been a player advocate, but a casino avocate as well. You need a balanced playing field, not one that is slanted one way or the other. Obviously, the advantage players want me to see their way regardless of whether or not they are breaching the casino terms and conditions. Sorry, that won't happen. If a casino states that you are not to play with bonus funds in a certain way, then don't play that way.

This is not rocket science, it is very plain and simple: if you accept a bonus, abide by the terms and conditions. Don't come here jumping my shit because I am telling you something you don't want to hear.

[NASHVEGAS]

So I assume CM disagrees with Stanford. I do not want to rush to judgement as it is not 100% clear to moi,yet. Would appreciate some clarification when you get the time CM.

[Casinomeister]

So I assume CM disagrees with Stanford. I do not want to rush to judgement as it is not 100% clear to moi,yet. Would appreciate some clarification when you get the time CM.

You mean whether or not the OP should be paid? If the OP is a fraudster, then obviously he should not be paid - and he should be banned from the forum. If he violated the terms and conditions, then the casino has the right to determine whether or not the winnings should be honored. Hopefully early this week I can take a look at his PAB (he submitted one on Friday) and try to figure out what happened.

[Stanford]

You mean whether or not the OP should be paid? If the OP is a fraudster, then obviously he should not be paid - and he should be banned from the forum. If he violated the terms and conditions, then the casino has the right to determine whether or not the winnings should be honored. Hopefully early this week I can take a look at his PAB (he submitted one on Friday) and try to figure out what happened.

We will agree to disagree. Most things boil down to two rules.

1. A bet made is a bet paid.
2. Thou shalt not cheat.

If he is a fraudster, fine and dandy.

If it is a misunderstanding over the bonus and they want to argue about the bonus, that's one thing. If they want to void winnings, that violates rule number 1. After all, they can structure promos to pay after the wagering requirements are satisfied.

I think the irregular play rules are about as clear as mud anyway. So whether the nonpayment excuse is use of autoplay, or bonus abuse or irregular play or I don't like your family - I think rule number one should be enforced. Otherwise the casino is breaking rule number 2. You know how you can tell? Because they do one thing when they win and they do another when they lose.

BTW, if the industry would enforce these two rules which are basically the same two rules that land based casinos have enforced, the online casinos would structure smaller sign up bonuses. Those type bonuses are really designed to steal customers from each other. In the end, the honest ones would benefit. The dishonest ones wouldn't.

Stanford.

[gmblpdam]

I'm taking a few moments tonight to respond to your post.

Number one: If you had bothered to actually read my original response, I was pointing out to the OP why the casino probably closed his account. I was not siding with anyone.

Another thing, apparently this guy is being accused of fraud. I am not privy to his account or why his account was closed. I stated that eCOGRA is privy to these things. If the guy PABs via here, I can see if I can check this out myself. Bit honestly, I would probably be wasting my time.

Another thing, I was one of the most outspoken persons concerning the FL fiasco last Spring, and probably the first webmaster to remove them from a major website. To imply that I am just sitting around here not giving a damn or not doing a damn thing is probably the stupidest comment I've read in a long time. Obviously you haven't a clue to what I am all about.

I don't side with a player just because he's a player. It's a shame that a number of you can't get past this, but it's always been this way. If a player fails to read the terms and conditions, or decides he is not going to abide by them - then he is pretty much SOL. I don't make the rules, the casinos do. It's up to the player to abide by these, and if a player does not understand why he/she has been locked out, then I will try to explain why - like I did here.

Apparently, you understand this as me taking sides. Perhaps you should read my posts a bit more carefully before jumping to conclusions.

The bottom line is players who commit fraud or purposely break the casino T&Cs deserve no pity. And I should make it clear that they won't get it here.

Your right, I did jump to conclusions. If there is fraud involved, then the player certainly does not deserve to be paid. I'm certainly not here to argue that.

However, what I was saying was, that you instantly jumped to the bonus abuser conclusion. I was pointing out, and Cargal backed me up with specific examples, that you immediately tell anyone that played with a bonus that they are abusing the system and don't deserve to be paid. You don't seem to want to help anyone that plays at casinos with a lick of sense. It seems like you cater to basically degenerates who are just playing to watch the reels spin and money change hands (look at your winner screenshots thread). I understand, slot junkies pay the bills.

It just kills me to see these casinos blatantly robbing players, and you saying "its your fault, your play style fits the casinos catch all cause". You have a bunch of great casinos listed on your website, tell them to play there. But don't tell them they are in the wrong for their playing style. Especially in a case like this, the guy likes to gamble, let him gamble.

[lojo]

I would have taken umbrage by giving you negative rep points with an explaination, and not responding here - but I've given too much 'luv' already today, so your name on my ignore file is an option without responding in kind.

You don't seem to want to help anyone that plays at casinos with a lick of sense. It seems like you cater to basically degenerates who are just playing to watch the reels spin and money change hands

[Pinababy69]

It seems like you cater to basically degenerates who are just playing to watch the reels spin and money change hands (look at your winner screenshots thread). I understand, slot junkies pay the bills.

Wow, so anyone who prefers playing slots, AND who just prefers to play for enjoyment (with maybe the hope of getting lucky and winning) is a degenerate?

I agree with you on the Winner Screenshots thread, I hate it, and I think it's misleading to "some". But there are also many people who play slots who know very well that those shots in WS are nothing more than the highlights, and who simply enjoy putting in their $25 or $50 and spinning the reels...and every once in a blue moon, hitting something worth cashing out.

To call anyone who plays slots a degenerate is a pretty low blow. As long as they're not blowing their rent/mortgage money, and are playing within their means, how does that make them a degenerate?

[lojo]

Online ain't Vegas

There is no NGC here abouts

The best thing going is Casinomeister.com
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Bonuses are for people who don't understand the joy of gambling

Gambling is for gamblers

Bonuses online and incentives in Casinos are two different animals.
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