VIP.com (RTG)- unfair practices

[kazablanka]

About one month ago i got the welcome bonus from VIP.COM. Immediately after receiving the bonus i also got an email from VIP.COM where there were terms of the bonus i received. Here i quote that email:

Reference number: LTK1130930456X Please use this ticket number in any correspondence with us.
Subject: Games bonus!
Dear Antonio,

Thank you for contacting VIP.com

We would like to inform you that your Casino account has been updated with the Welcome Bonus.

Please note that you must wager the total amount deposited (deposit + promotional bonus + deposit fees) 20 times in the casino, before cashing-in of the bonus will be allowed(sports/horse wagers, play at VIPpoker and non-applicable casino games are excluded). Any cash-in request before the initial deposit is wagered 20 times, will result in the bonus being removed. All forms of Black Jack, Craps, Roulette, Video Poker, Baccarat, Caribbean Hold'Em and War are excluded from this promotion.

If you have any further questions or concerns, please feel free to contact us again.

Sincerely,


Lily
Customer Support Team


---
Now pay attention, three card poker is not listed in the excluded games list. I played 3 card poker same day and finished 2000$ in my balance. I was really lucky.
Several days ago i attempted to cash out the money from my casino balance. My attempt was declined by the casino and i got the next email from them:


Dear Antonio,



Thank you for contacting us.



Your Casino account balance of $2,028.05 is divided in $30,00 withdraw-able balance and $1,998.05 BONUS balance. This bonus balance is based on $100 bonus you have received on 9/1/2007 5:57:12 PM as a welcome bonus to the VIP.com casino.



Based on the bonus rules you are required to wager $ 4,000.00 based on the TWENTY times bonus rollover requirements. This is basically Deposit + bonus * 20. (($100 + $100)*20) =$4,000.00.



So far you have wagered $3 on the excluded games. So far you have wagered $4,025.00 on Tri-Card Poker and only $3 on Real-Series Video Slots.



The exclude games are:



Baccarat, Bingo, BlackJack, Caribbean Hold'em, Craps, MultiHand, Video Poker, Poker, Roulette, Sic Bo, Tri-Card Poker, Vegas Three Card, Rummy™, Video Poker, War.



Once you have met the bonus requirement you will be free to transfer and withdraw your balance.



Please feel free to contact us if you have any additional questions.



Sincerely,


Hensly
Customer Support Team -----


Now you see that three card poker is there in the excluded games list. Ok, i thought there is some misunderstanding. So i sent to the support the same email with the initial terms
which i got from them and where there was not Three card poker in the excluded games list.And here where the problems began. The casino refuses to aknowledge the clear facts
and they start to think of all kind of stupid tricks just to avoid paying me my winnings. Why they don't respect me (and i suppose all other players)so much? Just look at their arguments:


this is reply from the same Lily:

Reference number: LTK6407723256X Please use this ticket number in any correspondence with us.
Subject: my balance
Dear Antonio,

Thank you for contacting VIP.com

Unfortunately we do not have the option to manually adjust the bonus program. The bonus was credited into your casino account. The reason for this is because at the time that you received the bonus the new bonus structure has not been integrated as yet in our system.

Please note that your account shows that you need to wager 20x the Bonus plus Deposit which is a total of $4000. You have only wagered $3 so far on qualifying games.

The excluded games are: Baccarat, Bingo, BlackJack, Caribbean Hold'em, Craps, MultiHand, Video Poker, Poker, Roulette, Sic Bo, Tri-Card Poker, Vegas Three Card, Rummy, Video Poker, War.


Please feel free to contact us if you have any additional questions.
Sincerely,


Lily
Customer Support Team

Here she states that they cannot manually adjust the bonus program. What king of argument is that? Why should i wager old bonus by the new terms? Because they cannot adjust a system? What a bullshit!


I write again. Here is another reply from their support:

Reference number: LTK6407723256X Please use this ticket number in any correspondence with us.
Subject: my balance
Dear Antonio,

Thank you for contacting us.


We would like to inform you that as per the first email that the agent Hensly send you TriCard Poker is listed as one of the excluded games.

As already provided to you in the email that Lily has send you, we are unable to manually adjust your account. You will need to meet the rollover requirements first.

Please feel free to contact us if you have any additional questions.

Sincerely,


Danitja
Customer Support Team





And then comes the most stupid email:



...In that email as underlined you will see "All forms of” Black Jack, Craps, Roulette, Video Poker, Baccarat, Caribbean Hold'Em and War are excluded from this promotion".



This sentence basically refers to the fact that ALL table games where excluded. That is why it READS "ALL FORMS OF". This is not a new rule as stated by you before but the old bonus rule which was valid still on September 1st when you received the welcome bonus. Therefore you must meet the bonus terms and conditions before you can withdraw any funds from your account.



For further details feel free to call out toll free number 1-800-300-2387 during office hours and request to speak to our manager Vince.



Please feel free to contact us if you have any additional questions.



Sincerely,



Hensly



Customer Support Team
Just try to understand what this Hensly writes. He surely thinks that i am a very stupid person and he wants to persuade me that the list of certain excluded games means that ALL table games excluded. Can you believe this? He want me to think that the black is white!
Now i am tired of this and i told to the casino that Casinomeister will contact them regarding this issue and his decision will be final for both of us. Please, Casinomeister, help me out of this.
The terms of the bonuses are fully satisfied by me. Later casino changed the rules. Should i wager again by the new rules. Is it fair? Just look at their arguments to see who is right here and who is lying.

[vinylweatherman]

It is clear that the terms sent to you with the initial E-mail allow tri-card poker (and 3 card rummy for that matter). If they are claiming that tri-card poker was excluded under the old rules they are talking bullshite, as I joined under the old rules & played tri-card poker and it was fine.
This is another case of a casino trying to exclude TABLE poker under the "all forms of video poker" rule.
Many RTG casinos went on to exclude all but slots on their bonuses, however, even though these were all you could play, they can also deny payment of any Random Jackpot due to max cashout rules that many have.
It is a huge rip-off, and RTG operators can do what they like as there is no help from RTG who have washed their hands of assisting players.

CS may not be able to manually adjust the bonus system, but management sure can - they prove this when they deny payments to players who have fulfilled the terms as per bonus system, but have "abused" the promotion. In this case, management manually adjust the system to deny payment.

VIP.com did recently introduce a new bonus system, I had the E-mail, which was sent on the 5th September, so any deposit before this should have been under the old system. If the casino introduced the system earlier, but did not update the terms on the website or inform players, then they should honour the rules as posted.

As you are ahead already, you will be excluded from any further promotions at VIP.com (standard rules), so one way of salvaging something now is to wager the required $4000 on slots, and you should still end up in profit, even if not as much. This will be better than having your account voided and deposit returned.

Future players should be warned that the terms they receive may not be up to date if they appear to allow table poker games and casino war.