Cinema Casino Dont pay!

[susanjbo]

I looked for a accredited casino on this site, as i normaly do. I signed up to Cinema Casino and made a deposit, thinking i would receive my 100% match bonus. After spending more than 500 EURO or aprox $832 australian dollars i then requested information regarding my bonus. The operator was very nice and informed me that i was not eligable because i didnt use a currency assosiated with my region!//

Well to my surprise i asked " how do you determine what currency belongs to what region?" I was told that we in australia belong to the US currency and no bonus's now or in the future would be paid to me. I thus reqeusted information
where i could find these rules in there terms and conditions. I was met with silence. Since last night i see they have now added then so im told.


My responce was swift, rang my bank and placed a stop on my card.,..... I used a rule i never knew i had. Australian residents are not permitted to play online, so my bank tells me. All in all this would never have happend should they have honoured there bonus, Now i dont care. They can keep there bonus, ill be spending my returned funds once they are procssed elsewhere.

My bank informs me that if they process the transactions they may face criminal charges. Now thats a better system, about time our aussie pollys got there act together. To bad we are not allowed to play.

[vinylweatherman]

Well, it'll teach casinos not to take the p**s with players by trying to tell them which of the FOREIGN currencies they are supposed to play in while not having this information available to them when they deposit.
In global terms, the Euro and the US Dollar are equal in rank; however, the US Dollar can be a difficult currency to use while playing online because it is an American currency, and this can lead to transaction problems even for non US players - surely then it would be natural for international players whose currency is not available to select the Euro. If you had gone for the UK Pound the casino might have a point, but not for the Euro.

As for Australians not being allowed to play online, true, but few know about this. Hypocritical of the Aussie government to allow Lasseters and co to attract players from outside Australia based on the strict government regulation, yet clearly the Australian government do not think the regulation enough to protect it's own citizens.
I doubt the Australian government will do too much about enforcing this unless it conflicts with domestic betting outfits, lest they suffer the same problems as the US have with the WTO

Having done this "chargeback" though, you have to consider online gambling over for yourself, as you may well be on a risky player database.

[VPL]

Dear Susan,

The following paragraph has always been in our terms and conditions. It is point 28 to be exact. It is also stated in the casino terms and conditions, that by downloading and installing the casino, a player agrees to abide by all terms and conditions. The download and installation process has a check box (I agree to all terms and conditions), that needs to be ticked before being allow to proceed further with it. Furthermore, the currency issue is an eCOGRA and FATF (Financial Action Task Force) requirement. Below, I have pasted the terms and conditions relevant to your situation.

Point 28 (casino terms and conditions)
Players must play in the currency of the country in which they reside if it is available. If the home currency is not available players must play in US Dollars. Should players not observe this rule their bonuses will be removed.

Point 1 (Casino terms and conditions)
Player fully understands, agrees to, becomes a party to and shall abide by all rules, regulations, terms and conditions contained herein and as such rules; regulations, terms and conditions may change from time-to-time.

You also stated that it is illegal to gamble online in Australia. Our terms state the following:

Point 26 (casino terms and conditions)
Our terms also clearly state that it is up to the player to understand the laws or their jurisdiction, which may prohibit them from playing online.

Point 4 (casino terms and conditions)
The activities and games of the casino are open only to residents of those jurisdictions where such participation is legal and not prohibited. Player acknowledges that it is their sole responsibility to understand laws in their jurisdiction, which may prohibit participation of the online casino facility. Such laws may disqualify players from participating and nullify eligibility.

Point 9 (casino terms and conditions)
By placing real wagers, the player warrants that he/she is legally able to do so within his/her jurisdiction and that he/she accepts that we are unable to provide any warranties as to their legality or otherwise of their participation in real money play.

We hope that your questions have been successfully answered.

Regards,

Curt,

Cinema Casino
Vegas Partner Lounge

[vinylweatherman]

Dear Susan,

The following paragraph has always been in our terms and conditions. It is point 28 to be exact. It is also stated in the casino terms and conditions, that by downloading and installing the casino, a player agrees to abide by all terms and conditions. The download and installation process has a check box (I agree to all terms and conditions), that needs to be ticked before being allow to proceed further with it. Furthermore, the currency issue is an eCOGRA and FATF (Financial Action Task Force) requirement. Below, I have pasted the terms and conditions relevant to your situation.

Point 28 (casino terms and conditions)
Players must play in the currency of the country in which they reside if it is available. If the home currency is not available players must play in US Dollars. Should players not observe this rule their bonuses will be removed.

Point 1 (Casino terms and conditions)
Player fully understands, agrees to, becomes a party to and shall abide by all rules, regulations, terms and conditions contained herein and as such rules; regulations, terms and conditions may change from time-to-time.

You also stated that it is illegal to gamble online in Australia. Our terms state the following:

Point 26 (casino terms and conditions)
Our terms also clearly state that it is up to the player to understand the laws or their jurisdiction, which may prohibit them from playing online.

Point 4 (casino terms and conditions)
The activities and games of the casino are open only to residents of those jurisdictions where such participation is legal and not prohibited. Player acknowledges that it is their sole responsibility to understand laws in their jurisdiction, which may prohibit participation of the online casino facility. Such laws may disqualify players from participating and nullify eligibility.

Point 9 (casino terms and conditions)
By placing real wagers, the player warrants that he/she is legally able to do so within his/her jurisdiction and that he/she accepts that we are unable to provide any warranties as to their legality or otherwise of their participation in real money play.

We hope that your questions have been successfully answered.

Regards,

Curt,

Cinema Casino
Vegas Partner Lounge

Since you now know it is illegal for Australians to gamble online, they should be automatically barred from registering, just as the large majority of casinos now bar Americans after the passing of UIGEA.

I am not sure I believe this bit about the US Dollar being an eCogra issue, it would seem odd given that the US are determined to stamp out online gambling, and one way has been to make it hard for their Dollar to be used as a gambling currency.
Many players not from the US have had problems with transactions, and have been told the problems were due to them having used the US Dollar, and American banks have to act as a conduit for transactions involving the Dollar. Of course, this might be a bulls*** excuse rather than real problems with the dollar.

I suspect that it being "term 28" indicates it is buried in the small print, which many players just glance at because it is often written in "legalese" rather than plain English. Such an important issue should be prominent at registration, not left to players to find it at clause 28. This player probably thought it had been added because of how deep down this clause was in the list of terms.

This has unfortunately created a situation where Australian players now know they can effectively "charge back" losses because the banks are afraid of criminal proceedings should the player complain about the bank NOT reclaiming the funds. This could be used to their advantage, and would effectively be the players' version of confiscation of winnings and return of deposit that casinos are increasingly fond of.

While the player is expected to read the terms, the casino is equally responsible to keep abreast of mainstream international rules about online gambling. There is more than enough publicity around the fact that Australians are NOT supposed to engage in online gambling, but casinos seem to ignore such rules when it suits them. Even now, American players are being offered ways round the UIGEA, despite it being illegal to transfer gambling monies between a US Citizen and an offshore gambling portal.

Are you the same outfit that told a TURKISH player they should have used the Euro, not the US Dollar? Your terms would indicate this Turkish player was correct in using the US Dollar, and whatever casino he played at should have honoured his winnings without a fuss.

[lojo]

Not to derail, but quickly inform; it is not illegal for US residents (except certain states) to play at online casinos (no need to give a casino the excuse not to pay!) and it is not illegal to transfer gambling monies between a US Citizen and an offshore gambling portal. This is a false supposition I see again and again.
The UIGEA states specifically that it neither changes, adds to nor modifies any existing law, it is only a tool to enforce existing internet gambling laws, i.e. toothless and ludicrous. The processor and transactors have over-reacted.

/derail

[winbig]

Playing devil's advocate here, but had you won, this thread wouldn't exist.

[GrandMaster]

Furthermore, the currency issue is an eCOGRA and FATF (Financial Action Task Force) requirement.

Could you quote either the ecogra or FATF requirement? I think you just made it up.

[SlotsWizard]

Unfortunately, a quick check of the Wayback archive confirms that this term has been there for at least a few months. Whether or not it's a "good" or fair term is another story.

A more interesting (but slightly off-topic) question is, why does Australia's government license Australia-based online casinos (i.e. AusVegas) but at the same time not allow Aussies to gamble online? Isn't that a bit of a double-standard, similar to the US situation?

[vinylweatherman]

Could you quote either the ecogra or FATF requirement? I think you just made it up.

This is worthy of investigation. if this is found to be bulls***, then we have a rep lying to the forum. If true, one has to wonder what criteria make the US Dollar the "international" currency as opposed to any of the other currencies used in international exchange, such as the Euro, or indeed the Japanese Yen.
Also, if this IS indeed a requirement under eCogra or FATF, WHY is it ONLY a "requirement" when bonuses are involved, yet it seems VPL was happy to allow an "illegal" currency if no bonuses were used. Does this mean it is OK for a seal holder to ignore FATF and eCogra if they just don't give out bonuses?
I just don't buy it.

[GrandMaster]

A more interesting (but slightly off-topic) question is, why does Australia's government license Australia-based online casinos (i.e. AusVegas) but at the same time not allow Aussies to gamble online? Isn't that a bit of a double-standard, similar to the US situation?

It is a way to reduce domestic problems while still making money out of gambling.

Maltese casinos have (or at least had) a minimum age of 18 for foreigners, 25 for Maltese citizens.