Prime Casino remove my money from Neteller!

[spearmaster]

Playtech does not make rules for its operators - please tell me that all of the other operators are bound to rules as you claim.

[PrimeCasino]

Spearmaster,

All Casino operators are bound by their Terms of Service and QOS agreements with their providers. In these agreements Playtech enforces many things on their Casinos as does MGS. Your statement about Playtech wielding no influence on Casino policy is absolutely ridiculous. Unfortunately, I'm not at liberty to break my confidentiality agreement with MGS for the sake of educating you. However, know that Playtech governs its Casinos to a large extent while MGS has much less control over what we can and can't do. This is largely due to the fact that Playtech provides a complete plug and play solution for their Casinos including a functioning back-office where with MGS, only the software is provided and you must build your own. This makes things considerably more unified between Playtech Casinos than they are through MGS.

Josh.

[spearmaster]

Let me quote you again and ask you how in the world Playtech can exert such control over their operators, such that each of them must apply B*30 and have specific requirements that are twice as hard to meet.

Originally Posted by PrimeCasino

I'm sorry to hear that some of you are upset about the change in our terms and conditions. Regarding withdrawals from Neteller accounts "after the fact", these payments should never have been made in the first place according to the terms and conditions. I'm sorry that you saw an initial payout but we simply do not allow withdrawals at all until the B*30 is met. Again, I'm sorry if this seems unreasonable but these are the terms and had you deposited prior to these terms taking effect, this situation would not apply to you. In addition, we're not pioneers in this respect either as Playtech seems to generally follow this rule as well. In addition, their requirements are twice as hard to meet.

If you make a claim, you better back it up with fact, my friend.

Also, I would be keen to hear what XXLClubCasino thinks of your claim...

[Lunkan]

I'm the other player aka23 mentioned. My case is very similiar. I signed up and deposited $100 on May 7, requested a withdrawal May 8. $80 of the bonus was voided and $667 hit my Neteller account May 11. May 22 these $667 was taken back from me.

While I'm not happy with the resolution, I too am ready to complete wagering as long as the $667 + $80 bonus is credited my casino account.

I'll send you a pm with my username, Josh.

[Da_Gambla]

Wow this is disturbing...

I have so many questions... where to begin?

What if this player had withdrawn by another method? When the casino decided they paid in error (and I do mean this specific error), what would have happened then?

These funds were in NT for 2 weeks... what if the player had withdrawn from NT in those 2 weeks, or made a deposit somewhere else? Would NT have created a negative balance to the player on behalf of the casino? Would the player's next deposit to NT have been confiscated to cover that negative balance?

Josh - Even though it is quite apparent that Prime performed some sort of transaction through NT that removed those funds, therefore proving you can do it, it's not right... on any level. If your security and screening process green lights a payment, and that payment is transmitted, it's over. You had your chance to dispute it long before. You come back 2 weeks later with a dispute? Bah! What do you run over there, a common street gang? It's just not going to be acceptable that you went into a player's personal account and.. damnit, let's call it what it was.. stole money from him!

If you sent him a paper check and he put it through his bank, what do you think the bank would say if you called them and asked them to send you the money back? That's right, they'd tell you to f'off. On what level is this right just because it was NT?

There are a variety of factions on this forum, with opinions sometimes so polarized that we can chew each other's heads off for days on end. But I guarantee you that every member here would unite in denouncing this action, and as it appears, even a peer casino is crying foul!

Glad you have agreed to negotiate something with the player.

but...

it's a small amount (in casino terms), and I think you should just give it back and be done with it. I don't care what terms he didn't complete, your security team dropped the ball...! You have an issue with them! Take it out of their paychecks or write it off as a loss if you have to. You cleared this player and funded him. It's over unless he wants to voluntarily play it through. You should immediately re-fund his NT account and ask him to deposit it back legitimately and play it through. You have no right to force him at this point, in my opinion.

Secondly, your casino is going to really suffer unless you state openly that this will never happen again to any player. It is going to spread like wildfire that your operation has a gun pointed at the forehead of every player who maintains a NT account, and uses it at your casino. What are you going to do now? Damage control would be a priority here, and it should happen very quickly least this fire starts spreading to all the other gambling forums.

You need to state that your security team is sufficiently trained, capable, and that all approved cashouts are FINAL. You do what you want, it's your business, but in light of this serious issue, players are going to need that extra level of trust. Good luck... do the right thing with this player.

As for the other casino reps who read this thread, thanks to Prime, we all know you all could possibly do the same thing as well. That's going to be a problem. The operations that come out with wording in their T&C's that state all cleared payments are final will be the educated consumer's first choice, so think about it. The rabbit's outta the hat here...

And now we're left with NetTeller. It would nice to know their position on this... and it would be especially good to know if Prime in any way misled them into reversing those funds. We need information there before that can get patched on their end. Hopefully NT will be interested in filling that hole and then we won't need the casino's voluntary cooperation.

Gawd this is bad.... disgusting...

- Keith

[GrandMaster]

Originally Posted by PrimeCasino

There is nothing I can do about Neteller "pulling back" payouts. This is something that every Casino is able to do and I don't imagine that it's going to change any time soon.

Just because you are able to do it, it does not make it right. Imagine that I invite you to dinner at my house, and I leave my wallet lying on the table. Even if I owe you money, you have no right to helping yourself to the cash in my wallet without my permission.

I hope you are similarly sympathetic to players making chargebacks on credit cards.

[PrimeCasino]

Spear,

I know exactly who you are and who you work for so I find it even more entertaining that you're willing to dispute this fact with me. In addition, your first statement, "I hope you have the balls" hardly adds to your credibility and should make you even more embarassed given who you work for. Do they know that you're posting here? I'm curious because I wonder how they would feel about one of their employees acting like a 6 year old.

Are you honestly going to lie to everyone in this thread? Are you going to sit here and tell them that Playtech doesn't own Casino Partners and formerly several other Playtech Online Casinos? I'm still not understanding what you think is out of line here or if this just you taking Pot Shots at competing software. Let's take what I said once more:

"as Playtech seems to generally follow this rule as well. In addition, their requirements are twice as hard to meet."

I'm quoting myself again since you obviously have reading comprehension issues. I said that Playtech seems to generally follow this rule. For example, take Casino Tropez. This casino is owned by Casino Partners and has the following terms:

" In the interest of fair gaming in order to cash out any amount of money you must wager at least eight (8) times your play bonus plus deposit. If you withdraw before having reached the minimum wagering requirements, your bonus and winnings will be void. "

Perhaps you explain to me how what I said was incorrect. I said they "generally follow this rule". The rule being that you can't withdraw until the bonus is cleared or both your winnings and bonus will be void. I never once stated that all Playtech Casinos are the same. You simply decided that this is what I said and then twisted my words to suit your argument. Perhaps you should re-read what I initially said in order for you to better process it.

Also, I'm still waiting for you admit that Playtech DOES in fact own some of its operators: Specifically Casino Partners for example. Owning your operator, regardless of how much you think you can argue it, means that they exert some level of control over it.

Cheers,

Josh.

Originally Posted by spearmaster

Let me quote you again and ask you how in the world Playtech can exert such control over their operators, such that each of them must apply B*30 and have specific requirements that are twice as hard to meet.



If you make a claim, you better back it up with fact, my friend.

Also, I would be keen to hear what XXLClubCasino thinks of your claim...

[XXLClubCasino]

Originally Posted by spearmaster

Also, I would be keen to hear what XXLClubCasino thinks of your claim...

Spearmaster

I would simply not know for sure about this. As playtech is a publicly traded company everyone could buy playtech shares. Meaning any person owning casino partners could be holding shares in Playtech. If this make Playtech owning Cpays or Casino Partners (Euro Partners) I don't know.

For sure all Playtech licenses are not owed by Playtech and I find it hard to believe but everything is possible. I for sure never heard about it and if it is true it's a well kept "secret".

Anyway it would not change anything with regards to this thread.

[Lunkan]

Josh, since I see you have replied to this thread after I posted here and sent you a pm, may I ask why my pm has not yet been answered?

[bash_2357]

Hi Josh...

Still not been credited yet? You said an hour or so about 3 hours ago? Also presumably the bonus of £100 will get returned? So i can meet the wagering requirements.

I am willing to accpet this resolution even though many above feel that i should get the money back straight into my neteller account.

Thanks