William Hill - nullified complaint

**Tysken** · 6th May 2007, 10:16 PM

So I was playing the William Hill sign up bonus, which is a 100% �80 bonus with 25x wagering requirements. I finished the wagering and cashed out with the intent of playing again next month (they have a monthly 40 euro bonus as well).

A couple of days went by and I started wondering when my money would reach neteller, so I tried to login on my will hill account to see if the money had been sent back or something like that. The login failed with the error message "we could not confirm your details". I immediately sent an email wondering if they had some type of technical errors.

The answer:

"We carry out regular security checks on accounts and your account has been suspended by our Risk Management team pending a review of your account activity."

They also requested that I faxed in my ID and a utility bill.

I sent them the documents and asked if my account would be unlocked now.

Their 2nd answer:

"We are writing to inform you that your account has been permanently closed by our security department because abuse of the bonus scheme involving your account has been detected. Your initial deposit of �80 has been sent back to your Neteller account."

What the hell? I asked them which terms I had broken and they replied:

"Unfortunately our investigation into your activity in William Hill casino has revealed conclusive evidence that you have been abusing our bonus scheme. This is in effect a breech of the terms and conditions which you agreed to when you signed up with William Hill and therefore you account will not be re-opened.

Revealing this information, and giving details of how it was obtained, would compromise the security of our operation."

I asked again and now they quoted this rule in their T&C:

"The Casino and/or its authorised agent reserve the right to review transaction records and logs, from time to time, for any reason whatsoever. If, upon such review, it appears that end users or any one or combination of them are participating in strategies which the Casino and/or its authorised agent in their sole discretion deem to be abusive, the Casino and/or its authorised agent reserve the right to revoke the entitlement of such end user(s) to the promotion".

So basically, if a player wins money the casino can just say that he was using a strategy that they find abusive?

I finished the wagering with blackjack (which is allowed in their T&C)...

What do you think? Do they have the right to confiscate my winnings?

**mikepipe** · 6th May 2007, 10:38 PM

Hello and welcome,
a sad story.
Yes, they are allowed to confiscte your winnings, if they think, you did something forbidden.
They should (or: have to) give you your deposit back - which they did.

I have never heard such things from William Hill, thought its a trustworthy place.

**cheekymonkey** · 6th May 2007, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by mikepipe

I have never heard such things from William Hill, thought its a trustworthy place.

This has ASTOUNDED me!!!!

I cannot believe William Hill would react in this way - it is virtually unheard of.

Wow - either they have a new team of account handlers who are exceptionally eager to impress or they really must think you are up to something?

Crazy!

**dealer wins** · 7th May 2007, 12:32 AM

If they intend to void your casino play then they should provide you with THEIR EVIDENCE of your abuse/fraud/multiple accounts etc.

To just void the play and return your deposit without giving reasons is theft IMO, and makes William Hill no better than the scummy casinos that lie in Bryan's rogue gallery.

**Tysken** · 7th May 2007, 12:44 AM

Yepp, I agree. A simple reason would have kept my from posting here (unless it was a ridiculous one). I assume they mean that I played blackjack with pretty small bets to meet the wagering... but then the T&C should say that blackjack isn't allowed, like it does with baccarat and roulette.

It's not even alot of money (�120 to be exact), they have do understand that they will loose more because of bad publicity?

**mikepipe** · 7th May 2007, 01:18 AM

I agree, that (BJ) cannot be the reason.
Either ist a computer mistake or they have something serious, which should be told to you.

**sdaddy** · 7th May 2007, 06:17 AM

Originally Posted by Tysken

It's not even alot of money (�120 to be exact), they have do understand that they will loose more because of bad publicity?

I would make sure that William Hill is aware of this thread. Also explain to them that only citing "bonus abuse" (and not any specific violation of the T&C) as the reason for voiding winnings is not regarded as acceptable practice by reputable casinos.

**vinylweatherman** · 7th May 2007, 07:34 AM

Since they specifically mention "bonus abuse" and not any kind of fraud, I believe they have based it on the fact you signed up, did the welcome bonus with Blackjack and then withdrew winnings. No doubt they felt you would try the same with the monthly bonuses. It is not so much the Blackjack, it is the fact you ONLY played Blackjack rather than "enjoying a cross section of games" with the bonus.

This is a clear breach of Casinomeister rules, which require casinos to pay all winnings due unless it is FRAUD, not "bonus abuse", and then lock the account if they do not believe the player will return with profitable play later.
Oddly enough Will Hill is NOT on the accredited list, I am pretty sure they were before. They may have a rep here, worth a look. You could also fill in a PAB (Pitch a bitch) form.
This is not what would be expected from one of the UK Bookmakers.
Try Littlewoods instead, they have a similar monthly reward (paid after playing Blackjack

). Intercasino offer two different bonuses, one specifically intended for players who want to clear it with Blackjack. Both of these are the same software as Will Hill.

Being banned at Will Hill is not an Ecash Direct issue, as Will Hill do their own processing. The other Cryptos use Ecash Direct, and they will store any black mark for ALL Crypto casinos that use them.

**Casinomeister** · 7th May 2007, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by vinylweatherman

Oddly enough Will Hill is NOT on the accredited list, I am pretty sure they were before. They may have a rep here, worth a look. You could also fill in a PAB (Pitch a bitch) form...

They've never been listed here. PAB and I should be getting to this by the end of the week.

The reason why casinos won't give you specific reasons why they casino an account a fraudulent one is that they don't want you to know how you got caught. Not saying that this is a fraudulent account; I'm just bringing this up as an FYI.

**dealer wins** · 7th May 2007, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by Casinomeister

The reason why casinos won't give you specific reasons why they casino an account a fraudulent one is that they don't want you to know how you got caught. Not saying that this is a fraudulent account; I just bringing this up ans an FYI.

Thats an interesting issue really. In UK law all evidence has to be brought before a jury before someone is found guilty of an offence.

Online though is it OK for a casino to say "We have got proof that you are a cheat/fraudster, but we cant disclose this information as it may encourage or help others to avoid detection"

Surely this would be open to abuse by casinos who just dont want to pay a winning player.

And I would have thought that they could provide the results of their fraud investigation without going into technical detail of how they obtained them.

Just voiding someones winnings, even if the casino is right, is not the right way to do business. IMO it makes the casino as bad as the fraudulent players out there. It doesnt cast them in a good light, can ruin their reputation, and when it is posted around the internet it can cost them lots of potential custom.