Powerbet freerolled me for $15,000 and is not paying winnings

[hackkevin]

Hello all. I signed up for Powerbet casino at the recommendation of a few people here because of their good payment records in the past - this was on November 8th. I took the WINBIG1 bonus and lost it pretty quickly, but then had good luck with a larger bonus that they happened to be offering that week. I had the good fortune to get the balance to about $15,000 and cleared the wagering requirements.

After some other play and so forth, I got bored and initiated a withdrawal. They wanted a "faxback" form and other documents to prove my identity (silly if you ask me), but I eventually got around to getting them faxed and scanned over to them. They then took quite a long time to pay me, and when I checked my NETeller account on January 4th, I saw a payment for $2300. However, all my withdrawals were for $2500. I asked what the deal was, they took days to respond, and then responded with this:

------------------

Dear Customer,

Thank you for contacting the Casino Support Team.

Your deposits have been refunded into your neteller account. You are under the legal gambling age for Calinfornia (21). Sorry for any inconvenience caused.

Please feel free to contact our 24/7 Support Team if you have any additional questions.

Sincerely,
Chris
Casino Support Agent

-------------------

Now, I have attempted to play at other casinos where they don't allow 21 year old players, and they simply just stop you from signing up - which seems like the right thing to do. However, I did not lie on the signup form, and Powerbet knowingly allowed me to play at their site while I was under 21 years old. I am over 18 years old, and I'm allowed to play in many casinos here in California, so I did not violate their Terms and conditions about the age restriction.

Furthermore, please see this website proving that the minimum age of gambling is indeed 18 years of age with the exception of casinos that offer alcohol (which Powerbet doesn't, at least not to my knowledge):

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Casinos: On March 7, 2000, voters approved Proposition 1A, amending the State Constitution, to allow federally recognized Indian tribes to have a monopoly on full casinos (banking card games, like blackjack, and all forms of slot machines). Gov. Gray Davis signed a model compact with a majority of the states 100+ tribes, which allows 18 year-olds to gamble in Indian casinos. Patrons have to be over 21 only if alcohol is served at the gaming tables and slot machines.

Other relevant quotes:

No tickets or shares in Lottery Games shall be sold to persons under the age of 18 years.

"No prize shall be paid to any person under the age of 18 years." Id. at 8880.32.

All that aside, they basically accepted my wagers knowing that I was underaged, and would not pay me a dime if I won - but I bet that they wouldn't refund my losses had I lost, right!?

Casinomeister, please do something about this. I have emailed their support and will file a PAB as well as RTG dispute (is Montana still the place to go?) and contact the casino support person on the board, Oliver Curran.

 

[winbig]

You're misreading the law in California. You have no case. The 18years or older law only applies to casinos on Indian reservations, NOT online or other methods.

Just be glad they gave you your deposits back, and move on....Sorry to be harsh, but it doesn't look good.

Casinos: On March 7, 2000, voters approved Proposition 1A, amending the State Constitution, to allow federally recognized Indian tribes to have a monopoly on full casinos (banking card games, like blackjack, and all forms of slot machines). Gov. Gray Davis signed a model compact with a majority of the state’s100+ tribes, which allows 18 year-olds to gamble in Indian casinos. Patrons have to be over 21 only if alcohol is served at the gaming tables and slot machines. Tribes are free to place higher age limits on its patrons and employees, and can change the age limits whenever they wish. For example, the Cabazon Band of Mission Indians announced in September 1995 that it was raising the minimum age from 18 to 21 for its casino near Palm Springs and that it was firing all casino workers under 21; Harrah’s will run the Rincon casino with a minimum gambling age of 21.

I think you're citing from:

California law also allows cities and counties the local option of licensing gaming clubs, limited to nonbanked table games, without slot machines. There are more than 300 gaming clubs operating throughout the state; most age limits appear to be 21. The only state limit is a restriction requiring operators and owners to be at least 18 (California Business & Professions Code 19809).

This only applies to licensed gaming clubs IN California.

 

[hackkevin]

The law says nothing about being 21 to play in casinos whatsoever - the casinos are allowed to set their own age limits. It merely says that many of the casinos are 21 years old, but that means some of the casinos are 18 years old, meaning the legal age to gamble is 18.

If it said "all of the casinos were 21," then Powerbet would have a case. But because the state allows even one non-Indian casino to permit 18 year old players, it means the legal age must be 18 years old unless alcohol is present.

Regardless of that fact, Powerbet knew I was from California and allowed me to play the site. Let's suppose that the legal age to gamble was really 21 (and it isn't, as I proved). Then why would Powerbet allow me to signup, deposit, accept a bonus, and play on the site?

Would they refund my money if I lost? I'll let you decide.

 

[winbig]

The law says nothing about being 21 to play in casinos whatsoever - the casinos are allowed to set their own age limits. It merely says that many of the casinos are 21 years old, but that means some of the casinos are 18 years old, meaning the legal age to gamble is 18.

If it said "all of the casinos were 21," then Powerbet would have a case. But because the state allows even one non-Indian casino to permit 18 year old players, it means the legal age must be 18 years old unless alcohol is present.

Again, casinos on indian reservations can set their own age limits, NOT casinos/gaming clubs themselves. Show me a California law where it specifically states that you can be 18 and gamble in a casino not on an indian reservation, and I'll eat my words.

Regardless of that fact, Powerbet knew I was from California and allowed me to play the site. Let's suppose that the legal age to gamble was really 21 (and it isn't, as I proved). Then why would Powerbet allow me to signup, deposit, accept a bonus, and play on the site?

Would they refund my money if I lost? I'll let you decide.

The point is moot, they refunded your money. If you had lost, I doubt they would have, but right now, that's irrelevant.

 

[hackkevin]

There is also no mention ANYWHERE in any law that says the legal age to gamble is 21. Try to find it, I guarantee you won't be able to find it in the code of law that exists.

More proof:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Gamblers in California must be a minimum of 18 years old. If however, alcohol is served there, the age is 21 and beyond.

And the popular chart found on many sites:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

See under California, Casinos & Slot Machines, it says 18/21, meaning it is 18 by itself and 21 if alcohol is present.

 

[hackkevin]

Again, casinos on indian reservations can set their own age limits, NOT casinos/gaming clubs themselves. Show me a California law where it specifically states that you can be 18 and gamble in a casino not on an indian reservation, and I'll eat my words.

Tell you what - why don't you show me a law that says I have to be 21 to gamble? Powerbet is alleging that I am underage by the California law. As such, the burden of proof falls on them (and you, since you agree with them) to prove that it is illegal for me to gamble in my state being under 21 years of age.

Good luck!

 

[kyleb]

What 'hackkevin' is saying is correct - when someone makes a claim that you are in violation of the law, the burden of proof falls upon the accuser, not the accused.

I've done some cursory checking, and I can't find anything that says you have to be 21 to gamble in California. Considering that I've gambled at non-Indian casinos when I was under 21 (legally, too - showed my ID and everything), anecdotal evidence seems to support this claim.

winbig, do you have any evidence to the contrary?

 

[winbig]

What 'hackkevin' is saying is correct - when someone makes a claim that you are in violation of the law, the burden of proof falls upon the accuser, not the accused.

I've done some cursory checking, and I can't find anything that says you have to be 21 to gamble in California. Considering that I've gambled at non-Indian casinos when I was under 21 (legally, too - showed my ID and everything), anecdotal evidence seems to support this claim.

winbig, do you have any evidence to the contrary?

I would almost bet the farm that there is a law stating the fact that any gambling done (excluding bingo and lottery) outside a gaming club or indian reservation is illegal in CA.

 

[hackkevin]

I would almost bet the farm that there is a law stating the fact that any gambling done (excluding bingo and lottery) outside a gaming club or indian reservation is illegal in CA.

That's not what Powerbet said was the problem. They said I was underaged. This is not in the law whatsoever, so, they don't have a case.

And if gambling online is illegal in California, why does every single casino operator allow bets from California if they allow bets from the United States? Do you mean to say that you agree with casinos freerolling people: Keep the money if they lose, don't pay if they win?

 

[winbig]

Nope, I don't condone it. I just know there's been plenty of other threads on here from people that are/were in the same situation, and they never got paid, either.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Avoid

This period between 18 and 21 is a big pitfall when gambling online. I suspect the law in California is imprecise because the US does not recognise internet gambling as legitimate, and is trying to make it specifically illegal. The law also seems to give Indian Reservations a monopoly on casinos with Blackjack & Slots games.
I doubt Powerbet have a sound case, and are just looking for a reason not to pay out $15,000. Given the many complaints about Powerbet, it was probably unwise depositing in the first place. Big bonuses at RTG seem to be the calling card of the rogue operator. The biggest bonuses I have ever seen were from the biggest rogue I have ever known, Crystal Palace once offered me over $30,000 in a single coupon! (Followed by another 14 if I lost!)

To be safe, any player wanting to play online should wait till they reach 21 rather than run the risk of this 18/21 confusion.

 

[OliverCurran]

Minimum Age

Hi all,

Well I am not surprised that fraudsters like Kyleb come online to support other fraudsters like Hackkevin, after all, they even play from the same IP address!

Our information is that you do indeed need to be over the age of 21 to play from California.

Therefore we refunded ALL the deposits Hackkevin ever made at Power Bet - even those he'd made previously and lost!

I don't think we can be more fair than that!

Best regards
Oliver Curran
Power Bet Casino

 

[Pinababy69]

In reference to the other thread started by KyleB, how do you explain having the same IP as five other people here at the forum Hackkevin, when you say you are in California, and four of the six are supposedly in Washington? And you all have a complaint against the same casino in approximately the same timeframe? I believe in coincidence, but not this much.

 

[umberto]

Hello Oliver.

Nice seeing you around. Why did you let this player register anyway? Would you have paid back the deposits of the underaged player had he not won the 15.000$? I guess not as you ve been doing all the last years.... So, I can not stand you being here stating

I don't think we can be more fair than that!

It's pathetic...

Have fun...

 

[hackkevin]

Haha, same IP as these people in California and Washington, right.

Here, I did your homework for you. Take a look at the attached image to this post and see that my IP is not even based in California due to my ISP being a bunch of idiots and routing IP's incorrectly. I am based in Madison, WI if you go by the IP I am posting from right now - Casinomeister himself can validate.

But then again, I guess I'm from Washington too. Just another obvious lie to do whatever it takes to not pay the player his money when he risks his money, has all the supporting documentation to prove he is indeed a real person, and doesn't play from the same IP. Pretty standard, I guess.

 

[Pinababy69]

Actually Kevin, I wasn't referencing anything that Oliver Curran posted, I was referring to the post made by Casinomeister earlier today in the thread that KyleB started.

Yeah, I guess I meant Dave, but you still share his IP address, and he Rachel's.

In fact, the following members share IP addresses:

kyleb
BBKPoker
hackkevin
rachelrae
dddestroyer
leenperkins

And most of these members have an issue with Powerbet (amongst others). So what am I supposed to think?

This is reminiscent of a massive fraud ring from Washington state that I dealt with several years ago. I'm wondering if I dig up these records, perhaps some of the same IPs, names, emails addresses and other similarities will surface. I'm not accusing anyone of fraud here, but there are a number of things that don't jive.

 

[hackkevin]

Hi all,

Well I am not surprised that fraudsters like Kyleb come online to support other fraudsters like Hackkevin, after all, they even play from the same IP address!

Our information is that you do indeed need to be over the age of 21 to play from California.

Therefore we refunded ALL the deposits Hackkevin ever made at Power Bet - even those he'd made previously and lost!

I don't think we can be more fair than that!

Best regards
Oliver Curran
Power Bet Casino

So if this is your "information," why did you let me sign up in the first place? If I had lost my money, would you have refunded it?

Obviously not. Pay me my money.

 

[hackkevin]

Actually Kevin, I wasn't referencing anything that Oliver Curran posted, I was referring to the post made by Casinomeister earlier today in the thread that KyleB started.

And I was referencing what Casinomeister said. I just posted IP records that show that my IP is totally messed up and not from California or Washington.

 

[Pinababy69]

And I was referencing what Casinomeister said. I just posted IP records that show that my IP is totally messed up and not from California or Washington.

Fair enough, it really makes no difference to me...I'm just one of those too curious type people.

 

[kyleb]

Hi all,

Well I am not surprised that fraudsters like Kyleb come online to support other fraudsters like Hackkevin, after all, they even play from the same IP address!

Our information is that you do indeed need to be over the age of 21 to play from California.

Therefore we refunded ALL the deposits Hackkevin ever made at Power Bet - even those he'd made previously and lost!

I don't think we can be more fair than that!

Best regards
Oliver Curran
Power Bet Casino

I see, so you freeroll players by letting them signup at your site, deposit, wager, and if they win, confiscate their money. However, if they lose, it's all good and the law's not a big deal.

Good job, Oliver! If that is your real name... (Warren Cloud)

 

[dc9999]

Hey Oliver,,,, kyleb is a Yankee fan, and that's good enough for me!

On to the issue at hand...

But first Mr "Curran", since you're such a Latin fan, here's one for you:

"Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris."

which means...... "If Caesar were alive, you'd be chained to an oar."

If we look at your entire body of work, we see a disturbing pattern that has been well documented at just about every major online gambling forum. One only has to google "Warren Cloud" and my lord, you'd be up all night and most of the next day sifting through the sordid details of case after case of player abuse that is clearly unethical - and likely criminal.

You like to revel and celebrate those situations where you slyly ensnare unwitting gamblers into your decades old web of deceit. It's made you a very rich man - and you've escaped any semblance of real retribution from your "supplier" - Realtime Gaming.

While I agree that there are always SOME gamblers who are also unethical (and yes some cheat, lie and steal), we all know that the VAST MAJORITY of your victims are either recreational players, or inveterate gamblers who have a problem controlling their compulsion (I for instance could fall into either group..)

What THEY ARE NOT though, are scammers or swindlers, out to take advantage of the casino(s) they patronize. They are lured to play with you by your seemingly generous bonus offers and frequent email campaigns.

They deposit - and lose - and you smile, knowing you will add to your coffers.

They deposit - and win - and you STILL SMILE, because you know they will never receive their winnings, and your "parents" (RTG) , will continually look the other way.

It's a good thing I believe in karma!

 

[The Dude]

Here, I did your homework for you. Take a look at the attached image to this post and see that my IP is not even based in California due to my ISP being a bunch of idiots and routing IP's incorrectly. I am based in Madison, WI if you go by the IP I am posting from right now - Casinomeister himself can validate.

And that's the same IP that a number of other members are using - all have a problem with Powerbet, and most of these players signed up in the same time span. All (except you) claim to be in Washington state, and most of them have logged on with Washington state based IPs.

And I was referencing what Casinomeister said. I just posted IP records that show that my IP is totally messed up and not from California or Washington.

No prob. It's identical to six other members and this IP has just been banned. You should try accessing this site using a different method.

 

[kyleb]

Bryan, that IP is from Wisconsin, not Washington. Furthermore, here's my IP address attached to this post.

No offense, but I think you're mistaken here.

 

[The Dude]

Bryan, that IP is from Wisconsin, not Washington. Furthermore, here's my IP address attached to this post.

No offense, but I think you're mistaken here.

No offense taken - but I'm not mistaken. The user is posting via propagation.net which based in Bedford, TX. So do a few other posters, but they also post from IPs from Washington State.

Just like if you use AOL, your IP address will point to Virginia - it doesn't mean you are in VA.

I've been running this board long enough to know what to look for when it comes to making associations between members.

WHOIS results for 24.17.66.126

Comcast Cable Communications WASHINGTON-9 (NET-24-16-0-0-2)
24.16.0.0 - 24.19.255.255

Location: United States [City: Olympia, Washington]

 

[kyleb]

Right, I am from Washington. I do not dispute that! However, 'hackkevin' posted an IP that doesn't resolve to Washington state at all, and like you said, even if it did, that doesn't prove that he is from Washington.

What does the IP 66.221.255.212 point to? From what I can tell, it says Texas.

 

[The Dude]

This is what I said:

And that's the same IP that a number of other members are using - all have a problem with Powerbet, and most of these players signed up in the same time span. All (except you) claim to be in Washington state, and most of them have logged on with Washington state based IPs.

The other members have posted using propogate.net AND from WA state IPs. I never stated that hackkevin is in WA.

Right, I am from Washington. I do not dispute that! However, 'hackkevin' posted an IP that doesn't resolve to Washington state at all, and like you said, even if it did, that doesn't prove that he is from Washington.

What does the IP 66.221.255.212 point to? From what I can tell, it says Texas.

That's simply the main headquarters for this company.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Issue

If these are six different players, who have played with their own money, and on their own account as private citizens, where is the fraud?

The mess of ISP routeings, and so on do not make a case for fraud. Player fraud is if these six accounts are from any less than six separate human souls aged 21 or over. Surely there would be a way for casinos to determine that these six exist in their own right, and that they each played their own casino account. (such as speaking to each of them on the phone, hearing six different voices and them being able to answer random questions based on parts of their gaming sessions, as well as the usual document verification processes).

Is this really to do with fraud, or players being "too good" at playing online and winning with bonuses. Curran casinos should stop sending out these totally outrageous megabuck bonus offers and confine themselves to smaller bonuses, and more for regular depositors. Coupons CAN be enabled in RTG on an individual account basis, and so it would be perfectly possible to prevent the "wrong" player from helping themselves to the "wrong" coupon offer. Reputable RTG casinos seem to have no problems in configuring the lobby to accept only the coupons the casino intended the player to use, and this is evident when occasional mistakes lead to coupons being sent out to a player, but not enabled by CS in that player's account.

It still looks like a case of Oliver being outsmarted by good players who got the casino over a lure intended to milk the less able player who would never be able to withdraw till they busted out. (I have seen the "must withdraw at least the original balance or more after meeting WR" term on most of these. A "recreational" player will be highly unlikely to be able to meet this, especially if they were lured into making a big deposit).

 

[Keyser]

Age requirement in California

The only legal full service casinos (ie ones that offer slots) in California are the Indian casinos. The legal age there to gamble is 18, unless alcohol is served, as stated here:

"Sec. 6.3. Prohibition Regarding Minors. Tribal gaming facilities
operated pursuant to this Gaming Compact shall be subject to the
same minimum-age restrictions for patrons that currently apply to the
California State Lottery. If alcoholic beverages are served in any
area of a Tribal gaming facility operated pursuant to this Gaming
Compact, prohibitions regarding age limits in that area shall be
governed by applicable law."

This can be found here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Since the minimum age to play in the lottery is 18, then it is the same age to play in the Indian casinos.

Cant confirm if there is a minimum age for the "non-banked" gaming clubs or horse racing (couldnt find it specifically), but I dont see why it would be different that for the Indian casinos.

But hey, who cares about what is in the lawbooks when you have Oliver Curran's "understanding." Surely if it isnt written explicitly into law, it must be at least what they meant!

Wait, I got it Since there is alcohol liberally consumed and dispensed in this casino's business office, then technically the age is 21 after all (Disclaimer: I have no idea if any alcohol is consumed in their business office. This is just humor)

 

[Keyser]

More minimum age

Dear Mister Curran,

Apparently someone forgot to tell Barona casino, which only advertises on the radio all the time in California and is endorsed by Kenny Rogers, that the minimum gambling age in California is 21. For some reason they think its 18. Maybe you should speak to them. They obviously run a disreputable casino while yours is the epitome of integrity


From their website:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Children under the age of 18 are welcome to our resort. However, because the minimum gambling age is 18, we only allow children in the casino before 8:00pm to dine in our restaurant facilities (10:00pm for children of hotel guests). They must, however, be accompanied by an adult at all times, and cannot stay in the gambling areas

Also, see here about joining their comp program:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

"Member must be at least 18 years old. "

 

[The Dude]

I'm finally getting to this guy's PAB. (submitted on the 7th).

The thing is, if the casino is worried about breaking any state laws, why are they accepting players from Washington state were online gambling is prohibited?

I'm checking on the legalities of CA gaming now.

 

[The Dude]

Legal Stuff

From Attorney Emery Brett Ledger (who is based in California)

...you can attend a local horse track and gamble if you are 18 and also go to the bar and buy a drink (they will I.D. you and make certain you are 21 at the bar) but you need only be 18 to place the wager at the betting window. Practically speaking most Casino businesses have made 21 the minimum age so as to serve alcohol at the table or slot machines.

Lottery: California has a complete set of restrictions, typical of the state lotteries that have addressed youth gambling:

(a) No tickets or shares in Lottery Games shall be sold to persons under the age of 18 years. Any person who knowingly sells a ticket or share in a Lottery Game to a person under the age of 18 years is guilty of a misdemeanor. Any person under the age of 18 years who buys a ticket or share in a Lottery is guilty of a misdemeanor. In the case of Lottery tickets or shares sold by Lottery Game Retailers or their employees, these persons shall establish safeguards to assure that the sales are not made to persons under the age of 18 years.

California Government Code 8880.52: "No prize shall be paid to any person under the age of 18 years." Id. at 8880.32.

Parimutuel betting: The age limit of 18 for horse races was established by regulations of the Racing Control Board, not by the legislature in a statute.

Casinos: On March 7, 2000, voters approved Proposition 1A, amending the State Constitution, to allow federally recognized Indian tribes to have a monopoly on full casinos (banking card games, like blackjack, and all forms of slot machines). Gov. Gray Davis signed a model compact with a majority of the states100+ tribes, which allows 18 year-olds to gamble in Indian casinos. Patrons have to be over 21 only if alcohol is served at the gaming tables and slot machines. Tribes are free to place higher age limits on its patrons and employees, and can change the age limits whenever they wish. For example, the Cabazon Band of Mission Indians announced in September 1995 that it was raising the minimum age from 18 to 21 for its casino near Palm Springs and that it was firing all casino workers under 21; Harrahs will run the Rincon casino with a minimum gambling age of 21.

California law also allows cities and counties the local option of licensing gaming clubs, limited to nonbanked table games, without slot machines. There are more than 300 gaming clubs operating throughout the state; most age limits appear to be 21. The only state limit is a restriction requiring operators and owners to be at least 18 (California Business & Professions Code 19809).

Bingo: Minors (currently those under age 18) are not allowed to participate in bingo games. California Penal Code 326.5.

Question to Oliver Curran - were you serving drinks at Powerbet?

Looks like you owe someone $15,000.

 

[Keyser]

Age 18 casinos in California

According to this website, the following casinos allow age 18 players:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I checked each casinos website to confirm (see below). Viejas is the most explicit of them all.

Barona (see previous post)

Chumash

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

"Must be 18 years of age or older." in lower left hand corner under the gaming column

Sycuan

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

"Must be 18 years of age or older to be in casino, restaurants, and theatre."

Viejas

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

"How old do you need to be to gamble at Viejas?
You must be 18 with Valid identification."

The point of all of this is that clearly, you do NOT need to be 21 to gamble in California by state law.

 

[hackkevin]

Thank you Bryan for your research. Please unlock my account Oliver so I can log-in and register my Click2Pay account so you can pay me there, since NETeller no longer takes US cashouts.

 

[mtx]

Hmmm...I almost signed up here, think I still should?

 

[freakin]

Hmmm...I almost signed up here, think I still should?

do you need to ask?

 

[hackkevin]

So, Oliver, what's the deal here?

 

[cyprean]

I guess they will make an another lame excuse not to pay. To OP: stay patient and keep asking for your WD, I hope you will get your money in the end.

 

[patticake]

and then....oliver disappared

I'm glad we know the legal age is 18 in California and your due your $15,000 I hope you get it but oliver seems to have disappared. let us know what happens. Oliver and company is also holding my boyfriends $14,000 He joined because I referred him. He lives in a different town, has his own neteller account, bank account, home address but because he played on my computer there not giving him his winnings...meanwhile I played and lost alot of money and so did he but the won't return are losses and won't pay out winnings. I've played a few years at crystal palace and american grand and gave them a lot of money. I can't believe I wasn't aware of what has been going on with these casinos. They shouldn't be able to get away with this. I PM oliver but he does not respond. Atleast you got a response....

 

[chuchu59]

Patticake,

Did your boyfriend take out a bonus?

 

[patticake]

Yes he did but they said it had cleared...they're saying he breeched the T&C saying that he has more than one account. Which he does not. I've been playing with them for years and my boyfriend decided to play with them from my referral because I told him of the great bonuses.. He first won at American Grand $4,000, he invest $100.00, they told him he hasn't complete the bonus so he continued to play. He contacted them again when he asked for the new withdrawal of $3,000 they said yes you've completed the necessary requirements to get his withdrawal. He waited over the holidays in December to get that withdrawal but they kept saying that it's just taking longer than usual to get this withdrawal processed because of the holidays. Meanwhile, he opened up an account with crystal palace he invested about $1260.00 and ended up winning $10,815.75 he then opened up an account with Golden Nile which he lost about $500.00. He then got the response from American Grand saying that he was not going to get any withdrawals because he has multiple accounts. So not only did they screw him with the winnings but took all his deposits. They probably were waiting for him to lose at Crystal Palace and when he ended up winning they didn't want to pay anything so they found anyway they could to not pay. In there T&C it does not say anything about IP addresses it say household address. He lives in a different town, has his own neteller account, bank account ect... this was his winnings. This is not fair. sorry if I have gone on to much information but when I get talking about it I get so upset especially where I was the one to have referred him. I feel horrible...He says to me I know online gambling was a scam...

 

[vinylweatherman]

Oliver

This is one group that proves the point Frist & Co were trying to make. Pity that RTG were happy for their software to be involved. Now, if any argument is put forward supporting online gambling, Crystal Palace group make a compelling case for it all to be a big scam that lawmakers have to act against because the industry has allowed this to carry on unhindered for years.
While regulation would have achieved the same result, the US went for a ban, which Crystal Palace will completely ignore, and they will even benefit as being one of the very few places happy to take US player's money (literally!).
Woe betide any of the "Oliver Currans" who set foot in the US though.

 

[patticake]

To bad there isn't a way that when someone signs up to Crystal Palace or any of Oliver's casinos there isn't a warning that has all of our stories... When I signed up from there CD they sent me I had know idea all this was happening. I thought it was legit...I was in my own world no one could have told me they would not pay if you win. This has ruined video poker for me everwhere... I'm afraid I will never trust an online casino again.

 

[kyleb]

So, Bryan ruled in favor of Kevin and Oliver has not responded as of yet.

What's going on with this case?

 

[happygobrokey]

this is a microcosm of america's war on iraq. legal gambling age = wmd's, and then when that's refuted it becomes a case of multiple accounts and identical ip's = regime change. oliver curran = the george dubya of online gambling.

fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice....fool me.......you can't get fooled again...