Online Casinos vs. Land-Based Casinos

[buckboyy]

Bryan:

I have two questions for you. This first one has weighed on my mind since I started playing at online casinos and I'm sure it has been asked by others, many times. To me, it marks one of the biggest differences between online casinos and land-based casinos that exists. Since I've never seen an answer for it on The Forum, or anywhere else for that matter, I'm letting it rip: where in hell did this idea of wagering requirements come from? Someone or some casino must have been indoctrinated as "the Father of Wagering Requiremnts!"

Another question that also fits into the category of major differences between online and land-based casinos: why is there a waiting time to collect your winnings? When asking that, I mean until you get the money in your hand. How long does it take to sign a check and mail it or send a direct wire transfer? Oops! That's three questions.

I can just imagine myself going into a land-based casino operated like an online casino, then stepping up to the cashier to collect my wiinings, only to hear her say, "I'm sorry sir, but your money will be available in two to four weeks, but first you have to meet your wagering requirements. Oh, wait a minute! Since you tried to cash-in before you've met your wagering requirements, we can only refund your initial deposit back - in two to four weeks, of course."

And then through my anger and confusion I would have to think: now let me get this straight. You took my money immediately, made me provide you all sorts of documents to prove to you that I am me, offered me an incentive to play here versus the other hundreds of casinos, I won more money than I lost, but I can't have it?!!! All the ingredients for a violent crime to take place would be present!

[GrandMaster]

Try to go to a land-based casino in your underwear and see what happens.

[buckboyy]

You got me on that one, Bryan!!

Ok, for the sake of fairness and me gaming in my underwear (I must admit it's quite enjoyable), I'll stop whining and crticising about the industry and give some kudos. Now pay attention U.S. Congressmen and Senators! Online gaming is a great way to get affordable entertainment for us Americans who don't like to spend half our paychecks on gas.

I can go to several different casinos in a matter of minutes and never leave my home. Of course, it's a lot more difficult to do that now, thanks to my wonderful lawmakers. I can spend as little as $20.00 and make it last several hours. If I get hungry, I go to the fridge and build a marvel of a sandwich, instead of fighting a crowd at a resturaunt. Sometimes, I even have a waitress - Honey, could you make me a .............?!!!

It's easier for me to not overspend because I don't have a pocket full of bills sticking out all over the place telling me to spend them. One thing I really like - you don't have to carry one of those stupid change buckets around. When I leave my seat to use the restroom, my machine and chair are still waiting fo me.

I don't have to smell the peson next to me who needed a bath 2 weeks ago. No one needles me to buy a drink that I don't drink. No one looks over my shoulder hoping I'll drop a quarter on the floor. I always have a place to park. No hookers are tapping me on the shoulder to slip me a flyer.

There is a clock on my computer. I don't have to listen to thousands of buzzers and bells, and if I get tired of hearing the ones on my machine, I just turn the volume down. I don't have to look at bright reds, oranges, and yellows, and be blinded by too many lights.

If I'm losing badly, I shut the damn thing off. My casino opens and closes whenever it's conveinant. If I felt it necessary, I could hide my winnings. I'm sure there are many more, but you get the jist.

Now, about the wagering requirement thing..........?

[spearmaster]

Wagering requirements existed in land-based casinos long before online casinos existed.

You can often join junkets - not sure exactly how they work in the US, but in Asia, you buy a predetermined number of non-negotiable chips in exchange for free room and board and whatever comps - and these non-negotiable chips must be played through until there are none left - basically works out to a minimum of 1x, since if you win you get paid in real money but still keep the non-negotiable chip.

Never heard of wagering requirements higher than that, though.

[NASHVEGAS]

Originally Posted by spearmaster

Wagering requirements existed in land-based casinos long before online casinos existed.

You can often join junkets - not sure exactly how they work in the US, but in Asia, you buy a predetermined number of non-negotiable chips in exchange for free room and board and whatever comps - and these non-negotiable chips must be played through until there are none left - basically works out to a minimum of 1x, since if you win you get paid in real money but still keep the non-negotiable chip.

Never heard of wagering requirements higher than that, though.

Interesting how it works in Asia! Thanks...Comps in US casinos are based on so many different variables some of which are very obvious and some which prolly a high ranking casino executive would have to explain.....When my sinus headache vanishes, I will expand to the best of my ability (I do socialize in Vegas with the head of player development for a well known casino so I have some shared insight fwiw).....I did recently see a post about Harrah's Total Rewards program which was totally inaccurate but I did not bother to respond.

[spearmaster]

I understand the comps system in the US very well. What I'm referring to, however, is junkets.

The point of a junket is to have everything arranged in advance, usually as an unknown entity. A frequent player would not need to go on a junket since he/she's built up a history at the casino. But someone who might want to visit a new casino could join up with a junket program.

In Asia - junkets are much more common, and comp programs are still fairly new.

[jetset]

Congratulations on your balanced and well stated view, Buckboyy! In the online environment signup bonuses probably started out as a pure incentive to get new players in a very young industry to try out the online casino - there weren't as many different softwares, games or alternative venues around - or as many players - but there was still a need to persuade the new player to have a go or "sample" the individual casino's offering.

The T&C's back then were pretty basic, and most venues offered a 10 percenter - this was pretty much standard across the majority of the casinos, possibly because back in the mid-'nineties many of the casinos were powered by Starnet (subsequently World Gaming and now deceased)

It was probably realised by operators quite early on that just offering a cash bonus could lead to problems, especially as the competitive aspect of the fast-growing industry became an increasingly operational dynamic and the size of the bonus started edging upwards with casino owners striving to get as many players in as possible.

And with bigger bonuses and a more complex affiliate marketing system came more disputes leading to steadily more complex T&Cs....unfortunately....and bad conduct on both sides of the divide as individuals tried to use bonuses to best, and in some cases dishonest, advantage.

Many have advocated the abandonment of at least the signup bonus system on grounds that it just causes too many casino-player disputes but it is now so entrenched that I doubt we will ever see that. However, I do think there is now additionally a growing emphasis on loyalty bonusing.

[Casinomeister]

Hi buckboyy

Originally Posted by GrandMaster

Try to go to a land-based casino in your underwear and see what happens.

that wasn't me.

Anyway - wagering requirements are fpr the most part exclusively for "bonus" play. Bonuses - as mentioned already - are used as incentives for gamblers to sign up and play. Casino marketing is extremely competitive and if a casino was to place a "free" $10 amount in your account and you were to immediately cash it out, the casino would go broke - thus the wagering requirement.

Bonuses are not obligatory, this is voluntary and in most cases you have to request it. Personally, I rarely ever play with bonuses since I don't like being required to play xyz games x amount of times. This is a personal preference thus I do not need to bother with wagering requirements.

Most casinos - especially those that do NOT accept US bets are relatively fast in their payouts. Usually within 24 - 48 hrs. Sometimes quicker with instant payouts. This won't happen with US players since casinos that accept US bets have to jump through loop-holes to get the players their funds (thanks to the UIGEA).

What the online casinos have that the land based casinos don't:
1. convenience
2. better/more selection of games
3. privacy
4. you can show up in your underwear.

What the land based casinos have that the online casino don't
1. transparency (in most cases)
2. immediate payouts (in most cases)
3. cocktail waitresses (in Vegas)
4. dress codes (other than US)
5. real licenses and government regulation (in most cases)

[buckboyy]

Bryan:

Thanks for your excellent reply back in January on my wagering requirement question (also thanks to the others on the forum who replied). I too have now decided to stop using bonuses. It's nice to have greater freedom in game selection and not worrying about fulfilling their requirements.

However, I still think many problems exist with wagering requirements. I've found some casinos requirements to be extremely overinflated. Many of the RTG casinos give such huge bonuses that you have to have one hell of a winning streak to meet the requirements and if they have boosted them 10% higher than the majority of casinos, you might as well forget having any money left to withdraw.

I remember a recent experience of having - what should have been - a fantastic win streak, but I had accepted a 450% bonus and had to play for hours and hours (or risk losing on very high bets), and by the time I met the requirements, I only had my original deposit left. Unfortunately, my winning streaks only last a short duration, which I'm sure they count on. Those high bonuses are definitely bonus over-kill.

After having this experience, it spawned some questions: How do the casinos figure what the wagering requirements should be? Do they use any industry standards in calculating wagering requirements so they don't hurt others in the industry? Is the lack of compliance to industry standards for online casino operations something that is improving or is it still hurting the industry, or is their no standards in place to comply with?

[lojo]

If a game is set to 95% and you blow through 100 at one penny one line on a low variance slot, or play blackjack to less than optimal strategy so that your return is 95% (to make this easy) you'll have 95 left at the end of playthrough 1x, play through again and you'll have 95x95% or 92.5 (2x playthrough) play again and your balance will be 85.74... you can see where this is going. That is how they determine the playthrough requirements (more or less leaving you with nothing at 30x playthrough... or whatever the exact math for 95% or whatever edge for games allowed)

There is no industry standard, you are playing against the house edge, or house advantage, wherever you play. All games have a negative expected value EV- for the player - this is how honest casinos make money. Some, RARE bonuses give the player a positive expectation EV+.

For the most part bonuses are used by slots players to extend their play time. The savvy table player will do the math and take his chances.

If you've been playing with 450% bonuses at RTG, you were probably gambling with more than house edge... you were gambling on the integrity of the casinos.

Hope that helped.

ps. I piped in becasue you have your Bryan's mixed up anyway