Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmo!
And if memory serves, Australia don't allow Aus companies to accept Aus residents for online gambling either so it is taking money out of the local economy.
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That's 100% correct. In fact (and this is disputed by some and complicated by overlapping federal v state legislation which has seen some updates in recent years further complicating the matter), the federal legislation actually appears to make it illegal for
any online gaming company in the world to offer their products to Australian residents.
The stupidity of this element of federal gambling legislation is surreal. Australian government has no jurisdiction over international gaming companies so it's not only a pointless piece of legislation as almost every operator in the world continue to market in Australia - it's basically shooting themselves in the foot as well because they could tax Australian online gaming companies and they cannot tax overseas operators (obv).
There are online casinos and poker rooms that block Australian residents in deference to this legislation (some are mentioned in this thread) yet you have publicly owned companies like PartyGaming and 888 (listed on the UK stock exchange and VERY much able to be squeezed by the Australian government) continuing to market actively in Australia - so clearly their legal teams have green-lit them to do so. The whole thing is a shambles and a joke, basically.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattsgame
First off to simmo. you are correct in what you say. australian online based casino's cannot accept any australian players. Although to my knowledge there was only ever 1 any way and this was run out of darwin ( northern territory) which do not have as strict rules and regulations and most states. (im sure jhv will correct me if im wrong)
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There's actually a handful of them, but yes your point stands. It makes little sense to base yourself in Australia and subject yourself to heavy Australian tax burdens when you can't even market to Australians. I have to wonder if the operators of these companies are brain-dead. Move their servers offshore = don't pay the huge taxes AND offer products to Australian residents (not to mention decreasing their overheads by SKATZLOL amounts).
Quote:
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Originally Posted by mattsgame
To many clubs , sporting teams ,Rsl's , communities and not mention our government now reily on the income from these machines as well, so how will our government compensate these people?
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The clubs have taken advantage of the situation for so long and to such an extent that they are actually the villains here. Have you seen the Souths Sydney Juniors Club? It's like a mega-casino (only Slots obv) complex. It's nauseating, sick and just very very wrong on many levels. They've been pretty much bankrolling the colossal financial disaster that was the Rabbitohs NRL side for many, many years now. This money isn't mostly going to grassroots juniors projects or, in the case of the RSL, supporting various veterans' issues - it's mostly going into shady and dark places, lining the pockets of people you and I and every Australian would not (and should not) approve of (or indirectly allow the government to allow).
As far as the government compensating itself, the issue is that the revenue generated from taxing the industry isn't greater than the overall cost to society. Thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of families have been torn apart - suicides, domestic violence, crime etc etc. It's a disastrous mess - it's just that a lot of people (particularly governments) can't think long-term on this kind of stuff. Governments find it hard to put the brakes on incoming revenue short-term even though it would be the 'smart' play long-term for the same reason your average Joe Blow finds it hard to save rather than spend.
But...where there is an incentive for Joe Blow to save rather than spend; if you're darkly cynical (i.e. realist), there is an incentive for government to do exactly the opposite (and governments around the world often do exactly that - take the easy or populist route, hand-balling the issue [further complicated by their actions in ignoring or worsening it] to future governments / generations).
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulyt
Most people like voting for a 'strong' independent but most people don't realise he is a one issue politician. He is a lot like Senator Fielding. they don't represent the whole of Australia but here we are basically held over a barrel by them.
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Fielding is a world-class moron and I have no idea whether his position as Christian anti-gambling Independent Conservative holding an element of the balance of power in government will result in positive changes or retarded ones.
People get too caught up on Big Government v Small Government. The real issue is Smart Government v Stupid Government. You can enact legislation which you hope will protect your constituents from themselves; but if you're a grade-A Moron, all you end up doing is endangering them further by giving up control of regulation and effectively handing the industry to unregulated parties (UIGEA, US Drug War, etc).
Where you're 100% correct Paul is that the Australian system of representative government is so horribly flawed, it's almost sickening. I have a Politics degree but even 2 months into 1st Year Pol, pretty much every 17 yr old student in our faculty could see how stupidly flawed the system is (for the reasons you mention).
For a
very brief period of time at university (a lifetime ago), I was considering getting into politics to take advantage of this. Basically, wait for a polarising or controversial issue to develop (you don't even need to wait, they're all around you)...position yourself on one of the extreme poles of that issue (if you have no actual position, you could just choose the side most likely to get you elected)...build your entire campaign around that....Presto!
It's how this moron Fielding got elected to the Senate and it's how the xenophobic Pauline Hanson became such a huge threat at one point to the country that the two major parties effectively stitched her up and sent her to prison over a technicality - a very rare case where you *could* make the argument 2 HUGE Wrongs = a *kind* of Right. Definitely the lesser of two evils I think - but in no way do I support what Labor/Liberal did to her. What I support is changing the unbelievably retarded electoral system so that single issue campaigners who get voted in on that issue (and who represent maybe 3% or w/e of the nation) don't effectively control the balance of power for the state / federal government Coalitions.
I have to go win 1mil Euro now at 32Red and you're probably getting tired of this long post already - but if there's any Israelis or Jewish posters here, I wrote a long paper years ago basically arguing (perfectly and 100% correctly, I might add
) that the greatest threat to Israel's long-term security is not their Arab enemies. It's the "representative" electoral system Israel uses (very much like Australia's) which could (some argue WILL) result in Israel's sovereignty being kaput in our lifetimes. You can't have ultra-Orthodox / Haredim representatives (who already control the balance of power, I might add) continue to increase their foothold in the Knesset based on 1 person = 1 vote representation. The system is never representative. And (darkly) ironically for Israel, even if it were truly representative - it will eventually result in disaster (end of Israel as a nation) anyway due to Haredim mothers having 8 children EACH (that's the nation-wide average) compared with secular Israeli mothers (avg comparable with rest of the secular world).
Not to mention the dozen or so other contributing factors intertwined with this Haredim issue which, if not addressed soon by the Israeli citizenry, will result in Civil War or
worse within 50-70 years - and maybe a hell of a lot
sooner.
The world is a depressing place. I'm going to go drink and gamble now!
29th October 2009, 09:31 AM
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