Watch my stats drop - Gambling Wages

[daera]

WATCH MY STATS DROP!​

I titled this thread "Watch my stats drop" because that is what I predict will happen. It is now December 29th, 2009. 8:07am PST.

Here are my current months stats at Gambling Wages for Cool Cat Casino.

I plan on taking a screenshot many times over the next few days, until December stats close. We've all heard affiliates complain that their earnings are wiped out at the end of the month by credits/bonuses etc. Let's just see what happens as it gets down to the wire.

Shall we take bets on what will happen
to my earnings between now and the end of December 2009?​

As a disclaimer... we do not promote these casinos. There has never been a banner that I know of for these casinos up at our site. However........... because we run a forum that is mostly based on the newest no deposit casino bonuses, and other casino bonuses, we encourage our members to share offers they find elsewhere that our members might also be eligible for.

Of course we have members that post free chip codes for Gambling Wages casinos as well as all other casinos. We don't tell members what casinos they can post about. But we do try and always post under any post for a Gambling Wages Casino (or any rogue casino) to the effect of "Please only use this coupon like fun money/fun play. We don't recommend depositing here and would suggest you use your hard earned money that you decide to deposit with for a more reputable casino like iNetBet, Club World, Casino 33, Mainstreet, etc."

We also have all these casinos listed in our Rogue Casino area. But affiliate links are linked in some places where the casinos are mentioned, therefore we have picked up some players over the years.​

 

[RobWin]

WATCH MY STATS DROP!​

I titled this thread "Watch my stats drop" because that is what I predict will happen. It is now December 29th, 2009. 8:07am PST.

Here are my current months stats at Gambling Wages for Cool Cat Casino.

I plan on taking a screenshot many times over the next few days, until December stats close. We've all heard affiliates complain that their earnings are wiped out at the end of the month by credits/bonuses etc. Let's just see what happens as it gets down to the wire.

Shall we take bets on what will happen
to my earnings between now and the end of December 2009?​

As a disclaimer... we do not promote these casinos. There has never been a banner that I know of for these casinos up at our site. However........... because we run a forum that is mostly based on the newest no deposit casino bonuses, and other casino bonuses, we encourage our members to share offers they find elsewhere that our members might also be eligible for.

Of course we have members that post free chip codes for Gambling Wages casinos as well as all other casinos. We don't tell members what casinos they can post about. But we do try and always post under any post for a Gambling Wages Casino (or any rogue casino) to the effect of "Please only use this coupon like fun money/fun play. We don't recommend depositing here and would suggest you use your hard earned money that you decide to deposit with for a more reputable casino like iNetBet, Club World, Casino 33, Mainstreet, etc."

We also have all these casinos listed in our Rogue Casino area. But affiliate links are linked in some places where the casinos are mentioned, therefore we have picked up some players over the years.​

WTF Daera!! In the highlighted red "Disclaimer" above you say you do not promote these rogue casinos but yet at the end of your post here you state "But affiliate links are linked in some places where the casinos are mentioned"...so how the hell did that just mysteriously happen when you are clearly an affiliate there?

You've had to of also signed up to be an affiliate there as well, since you are clearly showing everyone a pic of your stats from the affiliate client...are you shitting us here or what?

Jeeze, I never thought you would actually promote this rogue ass bunch of shitty casino sites!!

Sure you can say that you don't promote them but if you just have one affiliate link linked to them then lets not f*cking kid each other here ok...you are clearly promoting them..

And now your main worry seems to be that you will get screwed out of that $21K commission check...I guess some can be bought, huh?
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[RobWin]

I didn't really understand this from "suzecat" of all people either...as much as you have been adamant about people promoting Gambling Wages Casinos and the utter disdain you have had for that type of behavior, or you either Laurie...what was your reasoning behind thanking that post if you don't mind me asking.

I mean, are you condoning the fact that Daera is in fact promoting these rogue ass casinos or the fact that she actually admitted to promoting them or do you guys just simply not truly understand what that post was all about?

Old Attachment (Invalid)
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[daera]

Jeeze, I never thought you would actually promote this rogue ass bunch of shitty casino sites!!

Sure you can say that you don't promote them but if you just have one affiliate link linked to them then lets not f*cking kid each other here ok...you are clearly promoting them..

And now your main worry seems to be that you will get screwed out of that $21K commission check...I guess some can be bought, huh?

My posts often are not as clear as I'd like them to be. I apologize for that.

These are a bunch of shitty casino sites. The worst!!

If you look at the stats, you'll see there's only 7 Click Thru's. 7 Clicks in a month is not what you see in stats that we are promoting, or should I say... we clearly are not putting out anything positive about these casinos, or making it seem like these casinos are a place that we would play at.. nor do we lead our members to believe that they should deposit and play at these crap casinos.

This isn't an account we make money from. I know it might appear that way by the large earnings amount.

This isn't about me being worried about getting screwed out of a $21k commission check. I can assure you that I have not even a twinkle of hope for that. I'm not that stupid! There's no way in hell these people would pay me or anyone else that, especially not someone who doesn't bring in players or revenue.

To be honest, this is one of very few months ever that I showed new depositors. That's pretty much a fluke. And the amount of money shown in earnings isn't because I make money from these people on a regular basis, because don't. They send me $20 here and $60 there, that's about it.

I don't know exactly what happened yet. But these stats aren't normal for us at all. Usually there's not much activity deposit/earnings or new player wise. That's a fact. But from the looks of last month, I'm guessing someone won big from a Real Series Random Jackpot or something. So last month had a lot of negative activity, whereas normally there would not be much at all. Last month ended in a big negative.

For what seems like forever now, affiliates complain about GamblingWages wiping out their earnings at the end of the month with bonuses etc. It never really affected me. But of course I'm aware of their dirty bonus practices. I thought it would be interesting to see how they explain things and how they finish this month. They sure as hell aren't going to pay me or anyone else this kind of money.... especially when it's a fluke situation that seemed to occur because of a winner that won at the end of last month and the whole no negative carryover situation.

Anyway... please feel free to go through our history at the forum at our current forum and the old one on Yuku.. if you think we're pushing players to play here. We're not. Simple as that. Never have, never will.

 

[RobWin]

My posts often are not as clear as I'd like them to be. I apologize for that.

These are a bunch of shitty casino sites. The worst!!

If you look at the stats, you'll see there's only 7 Click Thru's. 7 Clicks in a month is not what you see in stats that we are promoting, or should I say... we clearly are not putting out anything positive about these casinos, or making it seem like these casinos are a place that we would play at.. nor do we lead our members to believe that they should deposit and play at these crap casinos.

This isn't an account we make money from. I know it might appear that way by the large earnings amount.

This isn't about me being worried about getting screwed out of a $21k commission check. I can assure you that I have not even a twinkle of hope for that. I'm not that stupid! There's no way in hell these people would pay me or anyone else that, especially not someone who doesn't bring in players or revenue.

To be honest, this is one of very few months ever that I showed new depositors. That's pretty much a fluke. And the amount of money shown in earnings isn't because I make money from these people on a regular basis, because don't. They send me $20 here and $60 there, that's about it.

I don't know exactly what happened yet. But these stats aren't normal for us at all. Usually there's not much activity deposit/earnings or new player wise. That's a fact. But from the looks of last month, I'm guessing someone won big from a Real Series Random Jackpot or something. So last month had a lot of negative activity, whereas normally there would not be much at all. Last month ended in a big negative.

For what seems like forever now, affiliates complain about GamblingWages wiping out their earnings at the end of the month with bonuses etc. It never really affected me. But of course I'm aware of their dirty bonus practices. I thought it would be interesting to see how they explain things and how they finish this month. They sure as hell aren't going to pay me or anyone else this kind of money.... especially when it's a fluke situation that seemed to occur because of a winner that won at the end of last month and the whole no negative carryover situation.

Anyway... please feel free to go through our history at the forum at our current forum and the old one on Yuku.. if you think we're pushing players to play here. We're not. Simple as that. Never have, never will.

Where the hell is the "shaking head" icon Max and I have been wanting?

Lori, Lori, Lori...I have to say girl, I am so disappointed in you here. I know that that probably don't mean a damn thing or even a hill of beans to you but Jesus Christ Lori!!!

When the hell did you even sign-up to be an affiliate there and the more important question is WHY??

You say and it also shows in the pic that there have only been 7 click thrus for the month of Dec., but yet for the entire year you have had 2171 click thrus and 1810 downloaders!! And that is just for Cool Cat, not counting all of their other shitty casinos.

Has it really gotten that hard to make an honest living as an affiliate promoting the good programs that what were once great affiliates IMO are now in fact moving over to the dark side of the industry??

As far as whether or not the stats will drop by the end of the month, I truly hope the hell that they do! Any affiliate willing to promote this rogue ass bunch of casinos, even if it is only one live link...needs to be screwed out of their commission from Gambling Wages IMO!

Again I ask...WTF Lori????????????
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[daera]

Where the hell is the "shaking head" icon Max and I have been wanting?

Lori, Lori, Lori...I have to say girl, I am so disappointed in you here. I know that that probably don't mean a damn thing or even a hill of beans to you but Jesus Christ Lori!!!

When the hell did you even sign-up to be an affiliate there and the more important question is WHY??

You say and it also shows in the pic that there have only been 7 click thrus for the month of Dec., but yet for the entire year you have had 2171 click thrus and 1810 downloaders!! And that is just for Cool Cat, not counting all of their other shitty casinos.

Has it really gotten that hard to make an honest living as an affiliate promoting the good programs that what were once great affiliates IMO are now in fact moving over to the dark side of the industry??

As far as whether or not the stats will drop by the end of the month, I truly hope the hell that they do! Any affiliate willing to promote this rogue ass bunch of casinos, even if it is only one live link...needs to be screwed out of their commission from Gambling Wages IMO!

Again I ask...WTF Lori????????????
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Robwin,

First, I don't appreciate you using my real name repeatedly when I myself am not. My forum name is "Daera".

The "but yet for the entire year you have had 2171 click thrus and 1810 downloaders!! And that is just for Cool Cat, not counting all of their other shitty casinos." that you speak of is not for the entire year. It's for summary to date. That means since the beginning of time! Meaning since I first opened this account which was many years ago. I don't know why you'd think I just opened this account. You know I'm not new to this stuff. This account has been around a long time.

 

[RobWin]

Robwin,

First, I don't appreciate you using my real name repeatedly when I myself am not. My forum name is "Daera".

LOL...you might want to edit your real name out of that pic above then!

The "but yet for the entire year you have had 2171 click thrus and 1810 downloaders!! And that is just for Cool Cat, not counting all of their other shitty casinos." that you speak of is not for the entire year. It's for summary to date. That means since the beginning of time! Meaning since I first opened this account which was many years ago. I don't know why you'd think I just opened this account. You know I'm not new to this stuff. This account has been around a long time.

Whatever, this year...lifetime...like it really f*cking matters!

One more time and then I give up...

WHY??

Why, do you still have live links to these casinos on your site and available for your forum members to click on?

By the way, you did manage to send GW $2,150 for the month of Dec., now didn't you..
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[dominique]

When the hell did you even sign-up to be an affiliate there and the more important question is WHY??

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I am signed up there too. I signed up many years ago, and back then I didn't know s#!t from shinola and signed up for everything I came across.

My account has always been "dormant", and I have a lot of dormant accounts at all kinds of places. Unless they got deleted, aff programs clean up their database sometimes.

In any case, I think the intent of the post is to show how that casino group doesn't pay affiliates either, and the point of it is to deter affiliates from sending players to these places.

And that is a good thing, imo. So I think we should let Daera make that point as public as can be.

It is interesting to see how the math at that place just doesn't add up. And how any earnings disappear just before each month ends. No one in their right mind promotes that.

I am afraid though that the experiment won't work in this case, because of all the publicity, and Daera will actually have a positive balance at the end of the month. We'll see.

Still, I have seen many, many screenshots over time showing how earnings get wiped out at the end of the month.

Look at the huge numbers there - new and ignorant affiliates will be salivating to promote this - until they realize that month after month there are no actual earnings.

 

[daera]

LOL...you might want to edit your real name out of that pic above then!

I don't know why you think any of this is funny. But thanks for pointing out about the image. I didn't even realize that til you pointed it out. I'll see what I can do to fix that.

 

[daera]

LOL...you might want to edit your real name out of that pic above then!



Whatever, this year...lifetime...like it really f*cking matters!

One more time and then I give up...

WHY??

Why, do you still have live links to these casinos on your site and available for your forum members to click on?

By the way, you did manage to send GW $2,150 for the month of Dec., now didn't you..
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Why don't you show me exactly which LIVE links you're referring to and I'll explain them one by one.

 

[RobWin]

I don't know why you think any of this is funny. But thanks for pointing out about the image. I didn't even realize that til you pointed it out. I'll see what I can do to fix that.

Don't be silly, the bulk of this is certainly not funny. The funny part was that you were chastising me for using your real first name when it was you in fact that had left your entire name in the pic above...that's all...

Seriously Daera, if you truly are not attempting or trying to promote these casinos then I do hope that you will remove all of their live links from your forum site. If it is like you say, that you never really promoted them too much, then it should not be that hard to remove those few links...correct?
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[RobWin]

Why don't you show me exactly which LIVE links you're referring to and I'll explain them one by one.

Daera, if you didn't have live links somewhere on your site then you wouldn't have any new click thrus in your affiliate account there, now would you?

How do you explain new click thrus and downloaders if you don't have any live links??
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[daera]

Daera, if you didn't have live links somewhere on your site then you wouldn't have any new click thrus in your affiliate account there, now would you?

How do you explain new click thrus and downloaders if you don't have any live links??
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I never said I didn't have any live links or do have any. I don't pay that much attention to these guys. I'm sure there are *some* links out there somewhere. Over all the years and a forum that has been on several different urls. God knows where to find exactly each place my affiliate tag could be right now.

Heck, I could have a link from our old Yuku board from even years ago that would still be available if someone happened to come up with the right page in a search result. Considering our forum started in 2000, and was originally on Ezboard and then to a few other Ezboard servers, and finally then to a Yuku domain name... and then finally we started anew on the url we're at now.. I would say YES it could be very difficult to find any and every link that could possibly be out there over the years. You're the one making the issue of me promoting them... so please show me where I'm doing that and I'll either remove it or explain it.

I said this month showing 2 depositors is really a fluke.

I received an email from Vipin shortly after posting this. He says I only have 2 depositing players in December. Actually, his email did not make a lot of sense to me.

 

[dominique]

Ok, I thought a while before posting this because I know it sounds stupid, but it's true and so I'll say it.

I have never found a decent explanation for this - although two do come to mind.

Repeatedly, after I pulled all links to a casino ( and checked and double checked) I would still record clicks in the program's statistics and on occasion even sign ups. For quite some time, like a year later still.

There seems to be no rhyme or reason for it. Possibly people click on cached pages, or possibly it's the program's way to try to entice you back into being productive for them....

I'm not saying that this is what happened to Daera, she may well have old links in old forum posts that are just buried and someone pulled them up.

Look at the numbers, 7 clicks and 9 downloads, total deposits $2150 and profit to casino 135,510. How does that happen?

 

[RobWin]

I never said I didn't have any live links or do have any. I don't pay that much attention to these guys. I'm sure there are *some* links out there somewhere. Over all the years and a forum that has been on several different urls. God knows where to find exactly each place my affiliate tag could be right now.

Heck, I could have a link from our old Yuku board from even years ago that would still be available if someone happened to come up with the right page in a search result. Considering our forum started in 2000, and was originally on Ezboard and then to a few other Ezboard servers, and finally then to a Yuku domain name... and then finally we started anew on the url we're at now.. I would say YES it could be very difficult to find any and every link that could possibly be out there over the years. You're the one making the issue of me promoting them... so please show me where I'm doing that and I'll either remove it or explain it.

I said this month showing 2 depositors is really a fluke.

I received an email from Vipin shortly after posting this. He says I only have 2 depositing players in December. Actually, his email did not make a lot of sense to me.

Explain it? What is there to explain...you obviously don't care enough yourself to seek out those still active links and kill them, so why the hell should I care...it's your business if you want to keep promoting these rogue casinos, whether you are doing it actively or inactively...doesn't matter!

The fact is, you are still sending players there to make deposits whether you are willing to admit that or not...how else would $2,150 show up in your affiliate stats there as new deposits?

And it may only be (2) depositors like it shows but (1) depositor there is (1) too many IMO!

Just ask your affiliate manager where the click-thrus came from. They can see those links on their end...I do know that for a fact. That would be the first step I would take to kill them.

Why have you not closed this affiliate account yet if like you say, you are no longer promoting them?

Are you willing to accept that $21K affiliate check if it does make it to the end of the month? That's the question...actually never mind on that one...that is none of my damn business like most of this thread here is...
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[daera]

I probably should have included my November stats in my first post. Anyway, here they are. This shows a more complete picture of what probably happened to create the unbalanced looking Dec. stats.

Expired Image

 

[RobWin]

Look at the numbers, 7 clicks and 9 downloads, total deposits $2150 and profit to casino 135,510. How does that happen?

That happens at rogue casino sites like this because they have their RTP ratio set so high and with the bonus monies on top of that it makes it easy to win big there and run your balance sky high. The average player is able to wager far more at these rogue sites that they ever could at a legitimate casino site because of the RTP settings.

I know because I played at those and got burned several times over the years and in the past when I had my head up my a$$ and didn't know any better.

They know they are not going to pay the player out their winnings that are lucky enough to win...so it does not matter how high the player runs their balance up there as far as wagering goes.
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[AussieDave]

Hi All,

I've just stumbled in on this one. I must admit its a shock

Laying cards on the table I find it hard to believe that this wasn't an issue whether you got paid or not Daera.

Why would you make such a post and statements in BIG Black Writing if it wasn't

I'll surmise the disclaimer was applied because you knew you shouldn't be promoting such rogue casinos.

What I find extremely disturbing it's your forum. But you permit people to post bonus codes to these clip joints. Knowing full well they are the lowest of the low. Worse you've admitted to editing these links and add your aff tags

If it was me I'd be banning these links and casinos from every being posted to my forum again. But it's your place and you can do what you want.

However making a post like this here and your going to get jumped on by integrity driven webmasters, it's as simple as that.


Cheers

Dave

 

[daera]

Hi All,

I've just stumbled in on this one. I must admit its a shock

Laying cards on the table I find it hard to believe that this wasn't an issue whether you got paid or not Daera.

Why would you make such a post and statements in BIG Black Writing if it wasn't

I'll surmise the disclaimer was applied because you knew you shouldn't be promoting such rogue casinos.

What I find extremely disturbing it's your forum. But you permit people to post bonus codes to these clip joints. Knowing full well they are the lowest of the low. Worse you've admitted to editing these links and add your aff tags

If it was me I'd be banning these links and casinos from every being posted to my forum again. But it's your place and you can do what you want.

However making a post like this here and your going to get jumped on by integrity driven webmasters, it's as simple as that.


Cheers

Dave

Perhaps my posting skills have much to be desired since I definitely didn't get the message across that I was trying to.

I admitted to having links where they were because I wasn't trying to hide anything. I'm not currently actively putting links for these guys out. But I wanted to be honest about how I ever got any players over the past years. I guess I didn't have to admit that, but I'm not trying to be dishonest here about anything.

I have the best of intentions, but definitely have made my share of mistakes along the way, and make mistakes everyday. I'm constantly learning as I go. Because i didn't know everything on day one, doesn't make me less integrity driven.

I think GW and these casinos are total crap. I never say otherwise. I don't really communicate with them. This is an account I've had for over 4 years. I have lots of dormant accounts that I've signed up for at some point.

I don't know what I said to make anyone think I felt anything different than all of you do about these casinos.

I was hoping to point out and share what rogue casinos/affiliate programs in action.

If a player did win over $35k or whatever they won in November........ and now December is over and my account went from positive, to a big negative, back to positive just this month, because the player is STILL playing their winnings a month later.... that goes to show that Coolcat Casino is most likely playing games and prolonging that players cashouts to the point that they keep playing. It seems to me that what the casino is doing is making sure they don't have to pay the player for a big win, or an affiliate (whether it's me or someone else is not the point).

I guess I just wanted to document rogue in rogue action here. I didn't expect to be attacked or deemed as a GW-Lover or a webmaster with less integrity. Maybe so if I posted above in the player section. But I thought amonst my peers in the webmaster area you'd clearly see that 9 click throughs in a month from an account that's been open for years does not mean I'm actively promoting this clip joint.

 

[RobWin]

I guess I just wanted to document rogue in rogue action here. I didn't expect to be attacked or deemed as a GW-Lover or a webmaster with less integrity. Maybe so if I posted above in the player section. But I thought amonst my peers in the webmaster area you'd clearly see that 9 click throughs in a month from an account that's been open for years does not mean I'm actively promoting this clip joint.

Now you are starting to sound like John w/Rockbet about being attacked ...no one is attacking you here...I for one am just totally floored with this new revelation you have just released here today...that's all...just simply trying to make some sense of it all...

OK, so if you really want to split hairs here then fine...you are not actively promoting them but you are in fact
inactively still promoting them...would you not at least agree with that fact?
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[daera]

msn encarta
Thesaurus

promote (v)



Synonyms: advance, further, put forward, raise, upgrade, elevate

Antonym: demote


Synonyms: endorse, encourage, help, sponsor, stimulate, uphold, prop up, campaign for, support, foster

Antonym: suppress


Synonyms: disseminate, plug, advocate, push, market, make known, advertise, publicize, boost, propagandize

Antonym: defame


Synonyms: further, progress, move forward, stage, put on, organize, arrange

Antonym: prevent​

Merriam-Webster
Dictionary
Main Entry: promote
Pronunciation: \pr?-?m?t\
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): promoted; promoting
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin promotus, past participle of promov?re, literally, to move forward, from pro- forward + mov?re to move
Date: 14th century
1 a : to advance in station, rank, or honor : raise b : to change (a pawn) into a piece in chess by moving to the eighth rank c : to advance (a student) from one grade to the next higher grade
2 a : to contribute to the growth or prosperity of : further <promote international understanding> b : to help bring (as an enterprise) into being : launch c : to present (merchandise) for buyer acceptance through advertising, publicity, or discounting
3 slang : to get possession of by doubtful means or by ingenuity​

Now you are starting to sound like John w/Rockbet about being attacked ...no one is attacking you here...I for one am just totally floored with this new revelation you have just released here today...that's all...just simply trying to make some sense of it all...

OK, so if you really want to split hairs here then fine...you are not actively promoting them but you are in fact
inactively still promoting them...would you not at least agree with that fact?
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No I do not agree that I'm promoting them. I'm sorry.

 

[RobWin]

msn encarta
Thesaurus

promote (v)



Synonyms: advance, further, put forward, raise, upgrade, elevate

Antonym: demote


Synonyms: endorse, encourage, help, sponsor, stimulate, uphold, prop up, campaign for, support, foster

Antonym: suppress


Synonyms: disseminate, plug, advocate, push, market, make known, advertise, publicize, boost, propagandize

Antonym: defame


Synonyms: further, progress, move forward, stage, put on, organize, arrange

Antonym: prevent​

Merriam-Webster
Dictionary
Main Entry: promote
Pronunciation: \pr?-?m?t\
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): promoted; promoting
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin promotus, past participle of promov?re, literally, to move forward, from pro- forward + mov?re to move
Date: 14th century
1 a : to advance in station, rank, or honor : raise b : to change (a pawn) into a piece in chess by moving to the eighth rank c : to advance (a student) from one grade to the next higher grade
2 a : to contribute to the growth or prosperity of : further <promote international understanding> b : to help bring (as an enterprise) into being : launch c : to present (merchandise) for buyer acceptance through advertising, publicity, or discounting
3 slang : to get possession of by doubtful means or by ingenuity​

No I do not agree that I'm promoting them. I'm sorry.

Do you really want to do this? Daera, do you really not understand the meanings of those words in RED above that I highlighted for you...they all apply to any and all links you still have out there for GW!

You just sent them $2,150 this month and $1,525 last month in deposits, for crying out loud.
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[daera]

When I'm writing things that are negative about the casino, in reply to what others post.... I don't feel that I'm promoting them with my negative words.

I'm not endorsing them. Never have and never will. I'm helping them by putting them in a rogue area and telling players not to play there. I'm not publicizing them except to clarify that players should not play there.

Obviously, we will not agree on this. I understand what you're saying, and happen to see things differently. Now can we just agree that we disagree about this?

 

[RobWin]

When I'm writing things that are negative about the casino, in reply to what others post.... I don't feel that I'm promoting them with my negative words.

I'm not endorsing them. Never have and never will. I'm helping them by putting them in a rogue area and telling players not to play there. I'm not publicizing them except to clarify that players should not play there.

Obviously, we will not agree on this. I understand what you're saying, and happen to see things differently. Now can we just agree that we disagree about this?

Sure, why not...
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[zebedy]

Ive been a member of the Hodge for years and i have noticed whenever anybody has posted codes to the rogues a warning has always been posted afterwards telling people they shouldnt play there, and i dont think i have ever seen a banner or live link posted on the forum,
daera, maybe you could do as as Rob suggested and find out where the live links are and kill them,as you know one depositer is one to many.

 

[Chipeez]

Wow, this thread has got an unexpected turn.. When I saw the screenshot D. posted yesterday I thought it would be fun to see what happend there as most of us seen the strangest things happen to stats.. I was just wondering what the figures would be the 31st.

I just wanted to see if there were any updates today, but instead I had to read through 3 pages of discussion. And now I just have to post my thoughts on the subject and be a part of the derail of the topic. Well so be it.

Fist off I also have an account with GW, still getting clicks and an occasional deposit. It's not that I want the, but it's just that over time there are still active links online. And some I have no clue where they are. I've had similar experiences with a reputable program who asked me to change aff links for better tracking, but I have no idea where those links are. This just happens when you've been online and worked on different sites.

In regards to Robwins question on WHY one would even sign up at a rogue program I can only say that at the time I started as affiliate I had little clue about what was a good or bad programm. I just noticed lot's of players start playing in an online casino with a free chip. As they offer alot of these freebies, I figured it would be good to include these.

Now that I know better and learned from previous mistakes, I would never put GW on a premium spot. (and Daera wouldn't do this either) But you just can't prevent that some active link is on the web somewhere.

I think we all run our business different. One works on a big site and puts all his/her energy in this. There you would have a good idea on where active links are, although I could imagine if you have over 8000 pages you might miss a link when removing stuff.

Some set up alot of sites, perhaps to test something for google ranks, and might even forget about a site they have online and thus about the links that are online there.

I really doubt Daera started this thread to get involved in a discussion on why she got players at GW. I think she wanted to show what could happen to your stats and I think we should see this thread as a warning.

Just my 2 cents..

 

[Simmo!]

I'm gonna jump in here with a thought.

Let's say you post a warning about a rogue casino. It's clear, in black and white, that you don't recommend them or have major reservations. If a player decides to ignore your advice, goes there anyway and loses, the rogue casino makes 100% of their losses. So in actual fact, by posting an affiliate link you have cut their profits of the casino by X%. I'd have though the less money a rogue casino makes, the better?

 

[RobWin]

I'm gonna jump in here with a thought.

Let's say you post a warning about a rogue casino. It's clear, in black and white, that you don't recommend them or have major reservations. If a player decides to ignore your advice, goes there anyway and loses, the rogue casino makes 100% of their losses. So in actual fact, by posting an affiliate link you have cut their profits of the casino by X%. I'd have though the less money a rogue casino makes, the better?

I agree with you Simmo about posting a warning about a rogue casino, no qualms there, but when you add an affiliate link to that warning as I believe you are suggesting, if I understood your post correctly then you are in fact deciding to take blood money, so to speak...I don't see how you could see it any other way really.

"And by posting an affiliate link you have cut their profits of the casino by X%"?? Sure that may be true as well. But that is also like saying it is OK to take the money from Robin Hood because he stole it from the rich, even though we look over the fact that it is ill gotten gain...correct?

How anyone could still feel good about themselves taking money from this rogue program just blows my mind...when most of them know deep down that that rogue program still owes so many players money that they have screwed over during all the years of their existence.
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[Simmo!]

I agree with you Simmo about posting a warning about a rogue casino, no qualms there, but when you add an affiliate link to that warning as I believe you are suggesting, if I understood your post correctly then you are in fact deciding to take blood money, so to speak...I don't see how you could see it any other way really.

There's basically two ways of looking at this:

1) It's rogue, they can keep their money and I want no part of it
2) It's rogue and I'm going to cost them money

IMO neither of them is the wrong or right way, just two different interpretations which will divide opinion.

The most important aspect is that the player is given the information with which to make an informed decision.

 

[RobWin]

There's basically two ways of looking at this:

1) It's rogue, they can keep their money and I want no part of it
2) It's rogue and I'm going to cost them money

IMO neither of them is the wrong or right way, just two different methods which will divide opinion.

The most important aspect is that the player is given the information with which to make an informed decision.

OR....

1) It's rogue, they can keep their money and I want no part of it
2) It's rogue and I'm going to cost them and the player money
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[Simmo!]

OR....

1) It's rogue, they can keep their money and I want no part of it
2) It's rogue and I'm going to cost them and the player money
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LOL....I think you missed the point I was trying to make Rob. Let me try this...

A while back, I created poker tournament listings for syndication. They went out with my afflinks and a few blogs etc used to use them. In those listings were Absolute Poker and Ultimate Bet. We know what happened next so I removed them from the listings, but the old listings and links were still out there attracting clicks. What would you have done?

A) Sent back the affiliate commissions they paid you?
B) or kept them?

What you're saying is that option (A) equates to blood money.

What I'm saying is that as long as the affiliate has updated the player with information as to why they shouldn't be playing there, or removed them totally (which I think is less effective in educating the player), then the affiliate has met their ethical obligations and it's down to the player to make their own decision.

 

[dominique]

Chippeez said it, Simmo just said it and I said it too - you can remove links til the cows come home, and for one reason or another clicks still happen.

It's not easy removing anything from the internet.

If Daera follows every post naming the casinos in question with a warning, then she is doing the best she can, including floodding the search engines with warnings.

 

[RobWin]

A while back, I created poker tournament listings for syndication. They went out with my afflinks and a few blogs etc used to use them. In those listings were Absolute Poker and Ultimate Bet. We know what happened next so I removed them from the listings, but the old listings and links were still out there attracting clicks. What would you have done?

I think the only thing you can do in a situation like that is to simply call up, get in touch with the program manager and ask them to close your affiliate account. Otherwise you are still accepting money from a bad or rogue program indefinitely IMO.

A) Sent back the affiliate commissions they paid you?
B) or kept them?

Neither one...I would donate them to a good charity, where they at least could help someone less fortunate out...believe it or not...karma scares the sh*t out of me anymore...

What you're saying is that option (A) equates to blood money.

What I'm saying is that as long as the affiliate has updated the player with information as to why they shouldn't be playing there, or removed them totally (which I think is less effective in educating the player), then the affiliate has met their ethical obligations and it's down to the player to make their own decision.

I think Bryan here does a purdy good job of educating the player without having any affiliate links attached to those rogue programs as one example. I just think that there are better ways to educate the player without using any affiliate links to do it with.

Chippeez said it, Simmo just said it and I said it too - you can remove links til the cows come home, and for one reason or another clicks still happen.

Well it won't matter if you close that affiliate account now would it?

* The main thing that I am saying here guys is that you can choose not to be a part of those ill gotten gains if you really make an effort to do so and make the right choices, we all have those freewill choices available to us.

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[daera]

I just wanted to let you guys know that I am talking to Gambling Wages now. Because the month isn't quite over yet, and the New Year's Holiday, I probably won't have answers until next week. But I'll let you guys know the outcome once I know myself.

 

[daera]

Ive been a member of the Hodge for years and i have noticed whenever anybody has posted codes to the rogues a warning has always been posted afterwards telling people they shouldnt play there, and i dont think i have ever seen a banner or live link posted on the forum,
daera, maybe you could do as as Rob suggested and find out where the live links are and kill them,as you know one depositer is one to many.

Thanks for your post Zebedy.

FYI, I did send an email reply to Vipin yesterday and specifically asked if he could see the urls those clicks came from and provide me with them. They're not available in the affiliate program where I can see them myself.

 

[Simmo!]

* The main thing that I am saying here guys is that you can choose not to be a part of those ill gotten gains if you really make an effort to do so and make the right choices, we all have those freewill choices available to us.

I agree with the sentiment, though personally I feel that as long as the player has the correct information, it is ultimately their call whether they choose to heed your advice or not. We should also probably bear in mind that standards differ, and what one person might call rogue behaviour, another may not.

I think it's fair to call out an affiliate who is providing misleading information, but if they are doing the right thing and the player chooses to ignore the advice, or disagrees with it, then I think the affiliate's responsibility has been met. My personal opinion.

It's similar with general consumer reviews sites. You often see someone rate a product low, tell the consumer it is a pile of junk or inform the consumer the retailer isn't reliable, but at the end of the day, the consumer chooses whether or not it is the right product for them and the links are always present.

It's a fine line and it's easy to see why opinions will differ, but the main issue for me here is not who profits, but whether the player is being mislead.

By the way...the charity idea is a good one

 

[RobWin]

I agree with the sentiment, though personally I feel that as long as the player has the correct information, it is ultimately their call whether they choose to heed your advice or not.

I totally agree with you there, hands down. I think that could absolutely be a lengthy thread topic within itself, but what I am trying to focus on mainly is the links and still knowingly accepting money (as in affiliate commissions) from a rogue program.

We should also probably bear in mind that standards differ, and what one person might call rogue behaviour, another may not.

Yep, I understand that but I also understand all too well about the many affiliates out there who do know better and know that this group (The Virtual Group) has an evil past. The affiliates know that they owe legitimate players, legitimate winnings from the past and still refuse to pay them. That affiliate chooses to look the other way and stick their head in the sand and still accept that blood money.

OK, I admit, "blood money" may be a little over dramatic but I know you guys understand what I'm saying here. That is the affiliates choice to keep accepting that money from a program that they know still owes mucho deniro to legitimate players. But yet, still, the affiliate accepts that affiliate payment and looks the other way as far as those screwed over players from the past are concerned.

I think it's fair to call out an affiliate who is providing misleading information, but if they are doing the right thing and the player chooses to ignore the advice, or disagrees with it, then I think the affiliate's responsibility has been met. My personal opinion.

I agree as long as that same affiliate has no links to the casino or program attached to the information. That way even if the player chooses to ignore the advice, or disagree with it, the affiliate would not benefit from that bad choice that the player just made.

It's similar with general consumer reviews sites. You often see someone rate a product low, tell the consumer it is a pile of junk or inform the consumer the retailer isn't reliable, but at the end of the day, the consumer chooses whether or not it is the right product for them and the links are always present.

That's clearly a personal ethics issue there as far as that particular affiliate is concerned. They are telling their viewing audience that the product sucks yet on the other hand they are linking that product up thru an affiliate link and then are also willing to accept money from the company they think has products that are a pile of junk. Kinda like good cop/bad cop.

That scenario also reminds me of the affiliate who runs one website where everyone basically knows who is behind the website and they also only promote the good casinos and several CM Accredited casinos there. But that same affiliate also has a hidden dark side to them as well, where they own other websites that no one knows who owns them where they only promote the rogues and the virtual sites.

It's a fine line and it's easy to see why opinions will differ, but the main issue for me here is not who profits, but whether the player is being mislead.

So does that mean that it would be ok to list a rogue casino such as Cool Cat in your rogue section and warn everyone about how bad they are and how they treat their players and dick them around but at the same time also add an affiliate link to the listing there so they can go visit that site? Maybe they will even choose to ignore your warning and deposit there as well. Does that scenario make it ok for that affiliate to profit from that rogue program and the player too then, just because they simply warned them? IMO, that affiliate is clearly no better than the rogue casino is as far as ethics go.

I still would like to hear someone address the statement I made earlier about just simply closing the affiliate account and no longer participating in those monies derived from them.

By the way...the charity idea is a good one

Thanks, great discussion too, by the way...
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[zebedy]

I'm gonna jump in here with a thought.

Let's say you post a warning about a rogue casino. It's clear, in black and white, that you don't recommend them or have major reservations. If a player decides to ignore your advice, goes there anyway and loses, the rogue casino makes 100% of their losses. So in actual fact, by posting an affiliate link you have cut their profits of the casino by X%. I'd have though the less money a rogue casino makes, the better?

But if the casino is screwing the affiliate by inventing figures at the end of the month(which i think Daera is trying to prove by making her post) so all the comissions are lost anyway are you just wasting your time in putting there links up in the first place ?,
would it be better just to post warnings like affiliates did with Grand Prive,
i mean when affs posted warnings about GP im sure they didnt post links to the casino's, and allegedly it hurt them

I agree as long as that same affiliate has no links to the casino or program attached to the information. That way even if the player chooses to ignore the advice, or disagree with it, the affiliate would not benefit from that bad choice that the player just made.
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In a perfect world that would happen but as you know some affiliates only care about the paycheck,

I still would like to hear someone address the statement I made earlier about just simply closing the affiliate account and no longer participating in those monies derived from them.

IMO it would be better if affiliates had nothing to do with these people altogether and close there accounts, casino's get the word around by affs promoting them , if nobody promoted them wouldnt that hurt them more.

no promoting just warnings, no promoting just warnings , do you think the slogan will catch on

 

[Simmo!]

But if the casino is screwing the affiliate by inventing figures at the end of the month(which i think Daera is trying to prove by making her post) so all the comissions are lost anyway are you just wasting your time in putting there links up in the first place ?

Totally. You're dealing with rogues so if it all goes pear-shaped, then you've only got yourself to blame. No harm in alerting other people like Daera has done though.

IMO it would be better if affiliates had nothing to do with these people altogether and close there accounts, casino's get the word around by affs promoting them , if nobody promoted them wouldnt that hurt them more.

I agree with you and Rob on this. These casinos will only survive if they keep taking money. Affs and players need to work together to cut off the supply.

IMO the best thing is for an affiliate to spread the word without using aff links. But as mentioned earlier, sometimes casinos turn rogue after being good and some links can be outside one's control. So Rob's "blood money" call is apt if the affiliate is still promoting the casino, but IMO not apt if they have changed tack and called the casino out.

 

[AussieDave]

Hi all,

I'm slightly confused...

Cast your minds back three months, it was Gamtrak promoting Virtual Casino Group who effective brought the AU down before it opened.

In the following thread, another CM member is having a go at GamTrak over promoting VCG - https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/pr-new-hope-for-grand-prive-affiliates.34941/

It's certainly not the first time people have had a go at Gamtrak for promoting casinos.

So I'm some what bemused as to why two different webmasters are being treated differently, when they are both actively promoting VCG Casinos.

IMO as long as Daera holds and open account with Gambling Wages and allows people to post links to these crap holes on her site(s), it's hypocritical to target GamTrak for doing the exact same thing.


Cheers



Dave

 

[Webzcas]

Anyone who actively allows the promotion of Gambling Wages properties on their portals or forums is in my view not player friendly.

No ifs, buts or maybe. It's 2010, any webmaster affiliate, especially those who have been running sites for several years should know the rogues from the good casinos.

 

[RobWin]

Anyone who actively allows the promotion of Gambling Wages properties on their portals or forums is in my view not player friendly.

I agree but I'll also say it again too to add to the above statement...anyone who inactively and knowingly allows the promotion of Gambling Wages properties on their portals or forums are no better than the rogue sites themselves!

And still no one wants to address my earlier statement? Regarding...Just simply CLOSE that affiliate account!

Surely there is one amongst you that is willing to step forward and address this...where the heck is the owner of this site (Meisterman Himself) in this important discussion here? It would be beneficial I think to hear Bryans views on this as well, IMO.
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[Simmo!]

...where the heck is the owner of this site (Meisterman Himself) in this important discussion here?

Your choice of wording - "what the heck.." isn't exactly a friendly call to action, Rob! You could always PM him for his opinion if it's important to you but it is holiday season let's not forget

I'll give you my opinion though - here's what I'd do, but I'd prefix this with the fact that if a program I had on one of my sites was rogue, it would have gone rogue after I started promoting them. In which instance, I wouldn't close the affiliate account but I would make sure affiliate links were removed.

Whether I donated the money to charity or keep it is my business. You or no-one else knows what I do with my money and frankly it would be none of yours or anyone else's business either. If I chose to donate it that wouldn't be because of what anyone else thought of me, nor would I be advertising it, it would be because I wanted to or felt it was the right thing to do.

 

[zebedy]

Hi all,

I'm slightly confused...

Cast your minds back three months, it was Gamtrak promoting Virtual Casino Group who effective brought the AU down before it opened.

In the following thread, another CM member is having a go at GamTrak over promoting VCG - https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/pr-new-hope-for-grand-prive-affiliates.34941/

It's certainly not the first time people have had a go at Gamtrak for promoting casinos.

So I'm some what bemused as to why two different webmasters are being treated differently, when they are both actively promoting VCG Casinos.

IMO as long as Daera holds and open account with Gambling Wages and allows people to post links to these crap holes on her site(s), it's hypocritical to target GamTrak for doing the exact same thing.


Cheers



Dave

IMO i think theres a big difference to one affiliate advertising rogue casino's on there homepage of there site with the usual spin,

sign up here and blah blah

, if your new to gambling you wouldnt have a clue the casino was rogue.
but if somebody posts on a forum,with no live links

cool cat nd code xyz

and in the following post a mod posts

this casino is not reccommended avoid depositing blah blah

is that the same as actively promoting them ?
at least people reading the thread has an idea about the casino,

Ive heard the words Actively promoting what do they mean

1/updating links on a weekly basis
2/have links that are years old / forgotten about

At the end of the day if you are receiving a check at the end of the month from these sponsers then i guess it must mean you are actively promoting them, but if all links are removed then you wont be getting any new signups,

another question is
should affs continue to receive payments for the work they did years ago when these casino's were non rogue,





,

 

[RobWin]

Your choice of wording - "what the heck.." isn't exactly a friendly call to action, Rob! You could always PM him for his opinion if it's important to you but it is holiday season let's not forget

Yea, Yea...I know...I'm not always the most politically correct plug in the box but I also don't scratch unless I actually have an itch either! It was actually "where the heck" but that's beside the point ...it was meant in jest anyway. I, like several others here would just simply like to see Bryan take part and a more active role in participating in the more important threads here, that's all. Like he used to do, back in the day. We value his opinions on these matters as we always have, thus one of the very reasons we became regular visitors here and keep coming back day in and day out.

That's not to say that we also don't appreciate your's and the other mods and all the other posters opinions as well too, but certainly a little more of the Meisters thoughts and opinions on some of these types of threads would be a welcome addition IMO. There was actually a thread last week Follow up to the Posted Threads that made mention of this as well.

I'll give you my opinion though - here's what I'd do, but I'd prefix this with the fact that if a program I had on one of my sites was rogue, it would have gone rogue after I started promoting them. In which instance, I wouldn't close the affiliate account but I would make sure affiliate links were removed.

Thanks for your candid answer there Simmo. In a situation such as that and assuming that all links can be found and removed then I could maybe understand why an affiliate would not close the affiliate account. It could simply be due to the fact that there are players that you sent there back in the day before they became rogue that are still making deposits there and are in fact receiving their winnings and the affiliate is still making money off of those players.

Still though, on the other hand, an affiliate with that type of knowledge would have to think that there were other players that he/she had also sent there that were not treated with the same respect as far as their winnings were concerned. Of course this is only my opinion since I am the one typing here.

Whether I donated the money to charity or keep it is my business. You or no-one else knows what I do with my money and frankly it would be none of yours or anyone else's business either. If I chose to donate it that wouldn't be because of what anyone else thought of me, nor would I be advertising it, it would be because I wanted to or felt it was the right thing to do.

Yep, I agree, it's no one's business what you or I do with our money but I do think it's our business as good, ethical and integrity driven affiliates to let the player community know who is promoting these rogue casino sites and still taking money from their affiliate program whether it be thru actively promoting them or inactively promoting them. At least that way the player community is truly informed and they can make up their own mind then whether or not they still want to maintain an alliance with that affiliate site.

I'm actually starting to feel like I am "The Lone Ranger" in this thread here. Am I the only one here in Meisterland who has these types of views as far as ethics and integrity are concerned with regard to still accepting money from a known rogue program?..
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[RobWin]

Why can't we nominate posts in this thread here??
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[Simmo!]

...the fact that there are players that you sent there back in the day before they became rogue that are still making deposits there and are in fact receiving their winnings...

Brings us back to the definition of rogue and how opinions can differ. If a "rogue" is servicing some players to the level where they are happy to stay loyal, then the player obviously doesn't think of the casino as rogue. If the player is happy, surely the affiliate has met their obligation to the player and therefore, why shouldn't they continue to take their cut from the casino? If the player thinks they are rogue, they will have stopped playing there anyway. And if the affiliate has stopped promoting them based on their own definition of what constitutes rogue, then that seems fair to be.

I'm actually starting to feel like I am "The Lone Ranger" in this thread here. Am I the only one here in Meisterland who has these types of views as far as ethics and integrity are concerned with regard to still accepting money from a known rogue program?..

I think we are all pretty much singling from the same hymn sheet apart from the ongoing revenues bit and as I stated earlier, that seems a very fine line to me.

Why can't we nominate posts in this thread here??

Not sure - sorry.

 

[mojo]

Hi all,

I'm slightly confused...

Cast your minds back three months, it was Gamtrak promoting Virtual Casino Group who effective brought the AU down before it opened.


Cheers



Dave

Gamtrak did NOT bring down the GAU Dave. That is not fair.

Perhaps we forgot.

 

[greek39]

Maybe we would all be better off if the whole Virtual Group just disappeared. Yup 2010 and we still have long time Rogue Programs running around like little kids in a playground. Years of bitching and complaining perhaps something more aggressive is called for.

Why not chew on their super affiliate. Anyone know who that maybe lol? If I could only remember the name. then I could see if the same mannerism toward certain individuals in this thread would apply also. Or maybe all those affiliates who still have open accounts at the Virtual Group but no longer support them.

So lets not pretend this problem only involves two people. The problem is widespread like swine flu.


Tad unfair statement AussieDave.

greek39

 

[RobWin]

Brings us back to the definition of rogue and how opinions can differ.

Well, the way I see "Rogue" now has always been the way I have seen it...no if's, ands or butts about it....

rogue

In general, a rogue is someone who strays from the accepted path, is mischievous, or is a cheat!

ie: A rogue Internet service provider ( ISP ) is one that knowingly originates spam

And again, there is the word..."Knowingly"

Why not chew on their super affiliate. Anyone know who that maybe lol? If I could only remember the name. then I could see if the same mannerism toward certain individuals in this thread would apply also.

Yes, I wish you could remember their name as well. Most peeps that know me here, know that I have never held back my opinions toward anyone...I don't care if it was my mother promoting this rogue outfit...I would show the same amount of disdain toward her as I do anyone else who actively or inactively promotes them... I am consistent in that aspect!...

Or maybe all those affiliates who still have open accounts at the Virtual Group but no longer support them.

Isn't that an oxymoron there? IMO, if the affiliate still has an open account there, then they are in fact supporting this group by accepting their money.

So lets not pretend this problem only involves two people. The problem is widespread like swine flu.

greek39

I agree!
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