Your thoughts on large welcome bonus

addaminsane

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
Location
USA
okay, i figured i'd get some input on you're thoughts on ginormous welcome bonuses.

Particularly i'm referencing the new go casino bonus which is made up of 20 deposit bonuses of 100% up to $1000. I'm sure many have seen this, it seems to be a headliner in alot of casino affiliate websites right now.

Anyways, any thoughts, points to be maid, or presuppositions about bonuses like these with newer casinos? Does it give credibility? take away trustworthiness? Add to it....?
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
okay, i figured i'd get some input on you're thoughts on ginormous welcome bonuses.

Particularly i'm referencing the new go casino bonus which is made up of 20 deposit bonuses of 100% up to $1000. I'm sure many have seen this, it seems to be a headliner in alot of casino affiliate websites right now.
Anyways, any thoughts, points to be maid, or presuppositions about bonuses like these with newer casinos? Does it give credibility? take away trustworthiness? Add to it....?

......and these casinos wonder why they suffer "bonus abuse":confused:

This one looks too good to be true, I have seen this through SPAM.

So

1) They SPAM
2) They offer $20,000 to NEW players - ones with no history to speak of, could be a loyal player, could be an aggressive "bonus hunter".

Respectable casinos baulk at offering 100% to $1000 ONCE, let alone on the first 20 deposits. The terms may well reveal this headline is all froth, and the actual offer is nothing like what it seems. I suspect the following bonuses are only applicable UNTIL the player makes a withdrawal. I can't see them allowing play on 20 consecutive $1000 bonuses, with players winning from some as well as busting.

If they are rogue, they will take up to $1000 in one go BEFORE this becomes apparent, and that is assuming you win first try.
 

love2winalot

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Location
Philippines/Visiting Las vegas
Hiya: When a Casino, "New or Not", makes a banner, or sends an e mail, or anything, they are in direct compitition with hundreds of other Casio's doing exactly the same thing.

There are 2 targets only.
1. The true newbie who has never played at any on line casion before. an
2. The player who is/has played at online casino's before.

You, "the Casino", are asking someone to come to your Casino to play instead of the others, or you are asking someone to quit playing where they are at now, or open multiple accounts and play at more than 1 casino at a time.

WHY? Big Fat Bonus is as good as bait as anything. No matter how Good your Casino is, if you have,

Small initial bonus
few if any follow up bonus
extended play through requirements, and limited games
no established reputation
and so on........

Then, WHY would anyone come play at your Casino? There are simply to many other choices. imhop
 

NicolasJohnson

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Location
A Place
big bonuses are irrelevant

Hi Everyone,


As far as I see it, big bonuses are irrelevant to the casinos exposure to bonus abuse, and to it's reputation.

Big bonuses are meaningless. We could offer 10,000% Bonus if it had enough restrictions we would still not be in any trouble.

We have a policy of offering a mid size sign up bonus with more restrictions and a large bonus with less restrictions. There are players that mind playthrough/sticky and prefer a small bonus, there are players who don't mind restrictions and just want the largest starting bankroll to play for hours on end. We as a casino need to be able to cater to both.

It is when bonuses have too-good to be true restrictions that you must be concerned. 200% Blackjack bonus with no playthrough and no-max cashout? You know that there has to be more to it than that! 200% bonus with high playthrough, restricted games and such... can be more reasonable.

The old adage of 'if it sounds too good to be true...' is applicable even in the high tech world of today :)

Atleast that is my opinion. If I'm wrong and you guys feel otherwise, please tell me, since pleasing YOU is the reason we make bonuses for.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
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Manager
 

split em

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 15, 2009
Location
US
......and these casinos wonder why they suffer "bonus abuse":confused:

This one looks too good to be true, I have seen this through SPAM.

So

1) They SPAM
2) They offer $20,000 to NEW players - ones with no history to speak of, could be a loyal player, could be an aggressive "bonus hunter".

Respectable casinos baulk at offering 100% to $1000 ONCE, let alone on the first 20 deposits. The terms may well reveal this headline is all froth, and the actual offer is nothing like what it seems. I suspect the following bonuses are only applicable UNTIL the player makes a withdrawal. I can't see them allowing play on 20 consecutive $1000 bonuses, with players winning from some as well as busting.

If they are rogue, they will take up to $1000 in one go BEFORE this becomes apparent, and that is assuming you win first try.

I believe it's (20) 100% bonuses UP to $1000, so 20 bonuses of $50...
I may be wrong, but that's how I read the original post
 

paul02085

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 29, 2002
Location
USA
In general i like the larger % bonuses just because i can make a smaller $ deposit and have alot of $ to play with which means i get to play longer and that is mainly what i am after. Lot of play time.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Hi Everyone,


As far as I see it, big bonuses are irrelevant to the casinos exposure to bonus abuse, and to it's reputation.

Big bonuses are meaningless. We could offer 10,000% Bonus if it had enough restrictions we would still not be in any trouble.

We have a policy of offering a mid size sign up bonus with more restrictions and a large bonus with less restrictions. There are players that mind playthrough/sticky and prefer a small bonus, there are players who don't mind restrictions and just want the largest starting bankroll to play for hours on end. We as a casino need to be able to cater to both.

It is when bonuses have too-good to be true restrictions that you must be concerned. 200% Blackjack bonus with no playthrough and no-max cashout? You know that there has to be more to it than that! 200% bonus with high playthrough, restricted games and such... can be more reasonable.

The old adage of 'if it sounds too good to be true...' is applicable even in the high tech world of today :)

Atleast that is my opinion. If I'm wrong and you guys feel otherwise, please tell me, since pleasing YOU is the reason we make bonuses for.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
Manager

My point was that it is your AFFILIATES that do the damage. Not only do they show as "headliners" these big bonuses, but they will often offer a service to encourage players to sign up through THEIR banners. Often, this is a step by step guide to "abusing" the bonus, and if their is the slightest chink of an exploit, some affiliate sites will spell it out. This is how the "big bet & grind" came on the scene. No sane recreational player would think of placing their entire bankroll on a single bet, but when these affiliate sites spell out, and show with irrefutable mathematics that this method is a guaranteed winner long term, you get players who will try it, succeed, and spread the word.
Before I joined Casinomeister, I joined a couple of these so called "bonus whoring" forums, and this is what they are still doing now.

Before all the current, and highly leveraged, methods of advantage play, it was mainly about making small bets, and grinding out the small, but pretty consistent positive value in those early bonuses. These often had 20x or 30x playthrough, Blackjack allowed, and really WERE a way to make a living if you had nothing better to do than spend an entire day playing $1 hands for a few tens of dollars profit.

The current problems are indeed down to poorly written terms, or badly structured offers, rather than the size, or percentage, of the bonus offered.
Bigger bonuses will always get more advertising exposure, but also will get the attention of those unprofitable "advantage" players the casino does not really want, especially at launch.

This current offer being discussed does seem too good to be true, BUT it may be sticky, and have 100x playthrough, which would actually make it a safe bet for the casino, and a poor deal for the advantage player.

The problem at present is that many casinos neglect their loyal players, and this makes it easy for a new casino to lure them away with even a modest offer. To KEEP loyal players, the casino should be offering them deals that make it a waste of effort for them to play elsewhere, with all the hassle of again being a new player, having to send in documents, etc.

Players who play at several casinos STILL tend to stick to a set of favourites, and will perhaps try a new one every now & then, and if it doesn't match up to their favourites, will ditch it again.
 

Tengil

Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2006
Location
Finland
Has to be sticky then. Even so, highly exploitable, so I would expect there are other terms involved than 20x playthrough.

Not exactly. You have a bonus account and real money account, you first bet with the bonus and any winnings goes to real money account. The wager goes back to the bonus account tough.

The software seems to be Vegas Technologies and it seems to be slots only so nothing to exploit with 20xD+B.
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Location
Bexhill on sea, England
Has to be sticky then. Even so, highly exploitable, so I would expect there are other terms involved than 20x playthrough.
Highly unlikely to be sticky - my money says they are phantom bonuses.

No reputable casino offers bonuses like the one mentioned - I bet it's a rogue RTG.

KK
 

zebedy

No!!!! Im Spartacus
Joined
Jun 1, 2007
Location
Up a Tree
are there 2 golden palace casino groups ? only this casino uses vegas Technologies software, and i thought the other was playtech,
 

LOOKAWAY

Dormant Account
PABnonaccred
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Location
England
Hi there sister casino's are Golden casino and Online Vegas casino, both are in the rogue pit here at casino meister.

I have played this software before and the bonuses are always cashable, Now with these casino's the real worrying thing is the tourns they do, I have seen tourns around the 200k mark which are free to enter, and they do plenty of them to. Its kinda strange how they could afford this. If they could it makes MG look tight and stingy. My guess is they screw players one way or the other out of tourn wins. And most players probably don't know that if you don't make a deposit the most you could cash-out would probably be about 50 credits like the other Vegas technology casinos.

PS, I was going to do the sign up bonuses at Golden and Online Vegas, but then I see they were in the pit, they really wanted my action when I first signed up, so many good offers. Now the offers are more around the 25% mark.
 

addaminsane

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
Location
USA
Hi there sister casino's are Golden casino and Online Vegas casino, both are in the rogue pit here at casino meister.

I have played this software before and the bonuses are always cashable, Now with these casino's the real worrying thing is the tourns they do, I have seen tourns around the 200k mark which are free to enter, and they do plenty of them to. Its kinda strange how they could afford this. If they could it makes MG look tight and stingy. My guess is they screw players one way or the other out of tourn wins. And most players probably don't know that if you don't make a deposit the most you could cash-out would probably be about 50 credits like the other Vegas technology casinos.

PS, I was going to do the sign up bonuses at Golden and Online Vegas, but then I see they were in the pit, they really wanted my action when I first signed up, so many good offers. Now the offers are more around the 25% mark.

so does that mean all vegas technology casino's should be rogue for the same "unresponive" problem? I know i once was interested in starting a poker room branch on the merge network and found that most of the rooms have the software provider run most or all of the payment and customer service for them for a fee...very large fee

Basically alot of "network" venues simply focus on advertising, affiliate relations, and fronting money for some promotions. The network they're on takes like half their revenue. Essentially when you play on a network casino you're getting the same exact payment/customer service people as the other venues of the branch. I'm not sure how all networks operate, this is simply one case study from my experience and it was poker which i think for the most part has a player base with a different scale of intelligence.
 

thelawnet

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 4, 2005
Location
UK
My point was that it is your AFFILIATES that do the damage. Not only do they show as "headliners" these big bonuses, but they will often offer a service to encourage players to sign up through THEIR banners. Often, this is a step by step guide to "abusing" the bonus, and if their is the slightest chink of an exploit, some affiliate sites will spell it out. This is how the "big bet & grind" came on the scene. No sane recreational player would think of placing their entire bankroll on a single bet, but when these affiliate sites spell out, and show with irrefutable mathematics that this method is a guaranteed winner long term, you get players who will try it, succeed, and spread the word.
Before I joined Casinomeister, I joined a couple of these so called "bonus whoring" forums, and this is what they are still doing now.

Before all the current, and highly leveraged, methods of advantage play, it was mainly about making small bets, and grinding out the small, but pretty consistent positive value in those early bonuses. These often had 20x or 30x playthrough, Blackjack allowed, and really WERE a way to make a living if you had nothing better to do than spend an entire day playing $1 hands for a few tens of dollars profit.

You joined CM in 2004. That's quite a long time ago. 5 years. The 'bonus whoring' sites now are quite different from those of 2004.

While it's true that you could make $1 bets at BJ in the early days at many sites and more than likely make it profit, it's not the case that that everybody was doing that. The fortunate few came away with tens of thousands in profits. They didn't do this betting at $1.

Per Michael Shackleford (aka Wizard of Odds) Old / Expired Link

"During the glory days of Internet casino bonus hunting the Golden Palace offered a 20% bonus on purchases up to $10,000, every month. I personally collected $2000 in bonuses every month, and sometimes from their sister casino Casino Depot as well. "

And you can bet those bonuses were not 50 x deposit + bonus, slots only, or whatever they are offering these days.

As for 'step-by-step' guides, these are the consequence of it being possible to spend hours betting at $1 - too many people took advantage, so the casinos just made their terms much stricter. The step-by-step guides are a reaction to, not the cause of, bonuses where such a basic strategy is no profitable.

You do have a point on the affiliates, one of the biggest sites was set up by a poster here, who created his 'Gambling Log' here: https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/gambling-log.12919/ describing how he first started playing online casinos in June 2006, and was making consistent profits.

Within 3 months he'd created a website to teach others how to do the same.

Why? Because the casinos pay him to do it! And I can only imagine that it's far more lucrative for him to send them 'bad' players, than it is for him to pay the casinos himself.

There's a post here from Prime Casino, who had one lucky player referred by aka23 turn the 100 bonus into 10k:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/casino-operators-beware-aka23.17990/

They went insane as a result, and told everyone to avoid him.

Has that happened?

Nope, apparently some casinos even ask to be put higher up the 'best bonuses' list on his site, about 90% of which seem to have affiliate links on.

That's the business decision of those casinos, and it seems that the overwhelming majority have done nothing to halt the 'bonus abuser' traffic. My judgement on that is that its the casinos' business decision to make, they can look after themselves.
 

LOOKAWAY

Dormant Account
PABnonaccred
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Location
England
so does that mean all vegas technology casino's should be rogue for the same "unresponive" problem? I know i once was interested in starting a poker room branch on the merge network and found that most of the rooms have the software provider run most or all of the payment and customer service for them for a fee...very large fee

Basically alot of "network" venues simply focus on advertising, affiliate relations, and fronting money for some promotions. The network they're on takes like half their revenue. Essentially when you play on a network casino you're getting the same exact payment/customer service people as the other venues of the branch. I'm not sure how all networks operate, this is simply one case study from my experience and it was poker which i think for the most part has a player base with a different scale of intelligence.


No, as all other Vegas technology casinos are not sister sites to these three casinos.
 

aka23

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Location
Planet Earth
okay, i figured i'd get some input on you're thoughts on ginormous welcome bonuses.

Particularly i'm referencing the new go casino bonus which is made up of 20 deposit bonuses of 100% up to $1000. I'm sure many have seen this, it seems to be a headliner in alot of casino affiliate websites right now.

Anyways, any thoughts, points to be maid, or presuppositions about bonuses like these with newer casinos? Does it give credibility? take away trustworthiness? Add to it....?
Most reputable casinos can't afford giving all new players $20,000 in bonus money, unless the player has little chance of making a gain. So I'd expect such bonuses to either have poor terms that favor the casino or be unreputable (may not pay winnings). Looking up Go Casino, I see the bonus has 40xB wageirng on Odds On slots, which falls into the first category.
 

aka23

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Location
Planet Earth
...
Nope, apparently some casinos even ask to be put higher up the 'best bonuses' list on his site, about 90% of which seem to have affiliate links on.

That's the business decision of those casinos, and it seems that the overwhelming majority have done nothing to halt the 'bonus abuser' traffic. My judgement on that is that its the casinos' business decision to make, they can look after themselves.
Actually, quite a good number of referred players are not the group you'd expect. Some are traditional gamblers who find the site in a search engine, hear about it on Wizard of Odds, on Casinomeister, etc. There are also players who may play without bonuses and/or don't play the lowest house edge games with optimal strategy. This group tends to keep playing over time, while advantage players often do not. So over time the ratio of traditional gamblers to advantage players increases. It follows that the net win/loss stats of my referred players would probably be a surprise. They usually are in favor of the casino. Note that small, new casinos without a history of referring players are a key exception.
 

addaminsane

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
Location
USA
Most reputable casinos can't afford giving all new players $20,000 in bonus money, unless the player has little chance of making a gain. So I'd expect such bonuses to either have poor terms that favor the casino or be unreputable (may not pay winnings). Looking up Go Casino, I see the bonus has 40xB wageirng on Odds On slots, which falls into the first category.

it seems that looking at this 20k bonus promotion terms and other research that the theory of the bonus is legitimately good. I also noticed when going to golden casino that golden casino was promoting the go casino bonus on their own site when i visited.

When you visit the sites that come up in google the most for the most lucrative search terms. These two casinos are consistently prominent.

Could it be the case that based on the fact of their domination of search results they can afford to do great promotions like this knowing that the popularity it brings mostly attracts inexperienced players that wont know the best way to milk out a bonus like this in the first place?

*random thoughts in my head - if a casino group is dominating the search engines they are dominating the gameplay for the losing gambling population. I would think that they could take risks for the sake of gaining popularity from mainstream affiliates which drive them more of the player types they want then a site like casinomeister...which seems to attract more experienced players with methods.
 
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