Your Opinion needed...

[skiny]

You might want to keep in mind that you're dealing with different departments too. The finance department probably doesn't do a lot of checking into your play history or player status. They just see an incomplete rollover and decline the deposit as a rule. A conversation with support might have changed the decision. I think casinos deserve the benefit of one conversation before they're blown off.

A lot of businesses just drudge along following the rules but if you speak to them the rules can quite often be bent a little. If you had emailed them the same explanation you gave us and they still forced you to come back for the sake of a dollar or two then I can understand you taking your money elsewhere.

 

[Nate]

You might want to keep in mind that you're dealing with different departments too. The finance department probably doesn't do a lot of checking into your play history or player status. They just see an incomplete rollover and decline the deposit as a rule. A conversation with support might have changed the decision. I think casinos deserve the benefit of one conversation before they're blown off.

A lot of businesses just drudge along following the rules but if you speak to them the rules can quite often be bent a little. If you had emailed them the same explanation you gave us and they still forced you to come back for the sake of a dollar or two then I can understand you taking your money elsewhere.

Very valid points Skiny!

I actually do think they check play history - It's exactly the reason why withdrawals are confiscated for playing the wrong games.

I suppose I wouldn't bother doing that primarily because I WILL get told that rules are rules. I just went in and wagered without fussing. I wouldn't have minded losing that money either, but then I made a point to Withdraw as that was probably my last transaction with them

Nate

 

[bsilva028]

I was hoping to get an insight into this scenario from fellow members here:

I made a deposit at an Accredited Casino and took a deposit bonus. I managed to get the deposit of $50 plus the $50 bonus up to about $500. Changed games, went on a long cold run and Bust out.

I then redeposited $100 without a bonus and played about 20 - 50 $1 spins and took my balance up to $300 again. Not wanting to chase anything - I was quite happy with a 100% return on my deposits so I withdrew.

I get an email this morning that my withdrawal was declined based on the fact that I haven't wagered my deposit at least 1x.

Do you think this is responsible behaviour? I just wagered close to $800, redeposited and it took at max $50 to put me in a profit from which point I decided to call it quits.

Should I be forced to play more than I wish to? My total deposits in the session were $150, and I wagered over $800 - $1000 on the same game. I can understand if I was purposefully throwing in $100 and playing $20 and withdrawing, but my intentions were clear from my gameplay.

I wagered extra and re-requested my WD (won $40 extra), but I am very upset and feel that this is unethical on the Casinos part.

What do you think?

Nate

IMHO, yes if it was not the 1st time you deposit, if oyu wagered more times before, and lost other money too. its unethical.

however, if rules are rules, they can do that.

now, if i agree? no, i dont., if it was me i would stop playing there.

 

[weesie]

Hi Nate,

I had a similar thing happen a few months ago at an accredited casino. I took a bonus and had a decent run. I went to cash out and all the sudden remembered I took the bonus which is "sticky" there. Between that and the withdrawal fee of $9, I did not have enough. I knew if I reversed, I would not make up the amount needed. I went to live chat and was told I could deposit a bit more in order to have enough for my withdrawal.

I repeatedly asked if he was sure, and he said yes. I deposited another $20 and wagered about half since I only needed about $10 more and then sent my withdrawal through.

I had a copy of chat sent to me just in case.

Withdrawal went fine.

If you have played with that site for a while, I think it is pretty crappy of them. They need to take into consideration who and what type of customer they are dealing with.

 

[skiny]

Very valid points Skiny!

I actually do think they check play history - It's exactly the reason why withdrawals are confiscated for playing the wrong games.

True but if the rollover wasn't complete they might not even bother looking any further.

 

[Rick Deckard]

There was another thread about this only very recently. I can not search for you as i am on antiquated mobile. The fact is this 1x playthrough rule is there at many accredited casionos. I got caught out at Betsafe once.

Your right on the money Borgie. This rule does exist. Found it in BS's T&c's eventually.

"2.27
The User agrees that funds deposited in his Account must be used for playing Games. Betsafe reserves the right to charge a fee should you request a withdrawal without an Account turnover that is equal or more that the amount of funds deposited."

Shiver me timbers! Say I just chucked in a couple of grand and bet thee a whole grand on red on their high stakes Roulette. And blow me down it landed on red. Now I have won a grand and I have a fierce fire in me belly to go home and blow my newly found fortune on women and drink. Thee question is have I wagered enough to git my loot?

Shiver me timbers! What these scurvy dogs be saying me thinks is, no chance matey, as I needs to gamble my other grand as well as thee grand I just risked before I can git my hands on thee gold.

I know I might be sounding a bit like a pirate (used an english to pirate translator) but this, 1 times wagering of deposit amount condition, sounds more piratical to me. It's just crazy when great casinos add crazy catch 22's buried in their terms. It's made me think twice before joining a casino with this rule and continuing with casinos I have already joined. Anyone got a list?

 

[Nate]

So after wagering the amount and requesting my WD within 40 minutes after the initial declined WD, I have received payment 25 hours later... LOL ...

The decline effectively pushed me to the back of the queue, and nobody obviously bothered to look at it again. The amount is a trivial sum but serves as a great lesson as to where I play in the future!

Why do I even bother supporting a US facing Casino who goes out of their way to be rude and make my life difficult.

Nate

 

[Tirilej]

Why do I even bother supporting a US facing Casino who goes out of their way to be rude and make my life difficult.

Nate

To learn a lesson maybe....again

We/You don't know what will happen until it does so don't kick yourself. Kick them instead

 

[Nate]

To learn a lesson maybe....again

We/You don't know what will happen until it does so don't kick yourself. Kick them instead

You are right

I might not be a HUGE depositor at RTG.... I fancy the occasional flutter when DOA bores me ...BUT on the other hand they will have one less depositing player that will 'bother' them.

Nate

 

[mrmark21]

So after wagering the amount and requesting my WD within 40 minutes after the initial declined WD, I have received payment 25 hours later... LOL ...

The decline effectively pushed me to the back of the queue, and nobody obviously bothered to look at it again. The amount is a trivial sum but serves as a great lesson as to where I play in the future!

Why do I even bother supporting a US facing Casino who goes out of their way to be rude and make my life difficult.

Nate

Now I'm sooo sure I know the casino your talking about Rude US facing RTG casino? Yep I know the one your talking about. My advice? That kind of casino dosent deserve your custom, loyalty, or support. Take a walk... Towards a better casino. God knows there are plenty of them Even better drop RTG all together, your wallet will thank you for it mine has

 

[IanO]

Sounds like a case for the rep...

Perhaps I'm missing something, but might a quick PM to the rep not have resolved all of this?

We have the 1X rollover rule on all deposits too, as do many sites, but It's one of the few rules I can make an exception on based on circumstances. If this had happened here at Butlers Bingo and you had popped me a note explaining the situation, a quick word with the finance team likely would have seen the matter resolved. The rule is not there as a 'hidden trap' as some people seem to think. Certainly not here, and I would hope not at the site in question either.

As skiny pointed out earlier, the bean counters in the finance dept seem to be (legitimately) applying the rule, and your average CS agent will repeat what they are told. Perhaps pleading your case elsewhere was the answer.

That said, if this was just the final straw for you I can understand why you'd be reluctant to give them that opportunity.

 

[Rick Deckard]

Perhaps I'm missing something, but might a quick PM to the rep not have resolved all of this?

We have the 1X rollover rule on all deposits too, as do many sites, but It's one of the few rules I can make an exception on based on circumstances. If this had happened here at Butlers Bingo and you had popped me a note explaining the situation, a quick word with the finance team likely would have seen the matter resolved. The rule is not there as a 'hidden trap' as some people seem to think. Certainly not here, and I would hope not at the site in question either.

As skiny pointed out earlier, the bean counters in the finance dept seem to be (legitimately) applying the rule, and your average CS agent will repeat what they are told. Perhaps pleading your case elsewhere was the answer.

I must be missing something too. Land based casinos don't have this rule yet a few online casinos do. So what purpose does this rule serve?

The reason I may of suggested it might be a hidden trap is only because if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

 

[IanO]

I must be missing something too. Land based casinos don't have this rule yet a few online casinos do. So what purpose does this rule serve?

The reason I may of suggested it might be a hidden trap is only because if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

As others have already pointed out it is a preventative measure against potential money laundering.

I can only speculate why this is more prevalent online than in B+M casinos. Perhaps fraudsters are just less willing to enter a building filled with cameras to try and launder their money when an online option exists for them, so it's not become that big an issue for them.

I would be curious how a B+M casino would react if you changed your cash for chips, then immediately asked to cash out. Any vegas residents want to try it out and let me know how you get on?

 

[Nate]

Perhaps I'm missing something, but might a quick PM to the rep not have resolved all of this?

We have the 1X rollover rule on all deposits too, as do many sites, but It's one of the few rules I can make an exception on based on circumstances. If this had happened here at Butlers Bingo and you had popped me a note explaining the situation, a quick word with the finance team likely would have seen the matter resolved. The rule is not there as a 'hidden trap' as some people seem to think. Certainly not here, and I would hope not at the site in question either.

As skiny pointed out earlier, the bean counters in the finance dept seem to be (legitimately) applying the rule, and your average CS agent will repeat what they are told. Perhaps pleading your case elsewhere was the answer.

That said, if this was just the final straw for you I can understand why you'd be reluctant to give them that opportunity.

It was the icing on the cake I am afraid. As mentioned earlier - I emailed the Casino asking for help as I could not load the flash games earlier in the day and was met with 'Please explain what you want us to do.....' - I mean REALLY? - That gives a new definition to 'Support'.

A PM to the rep would not have helped since I wouldn't expect them to break the rules for me if they are such sticklers for their rules.

I think the point I'm trying to make is - I deposit $300 and lose that on Immortal romance... I continue depositing and playing and on my last deposit of $50 I hit a feature which takes me to $2012 .... Now... Do I cash out on $2000 or wager another $24 because the rules states it? - I want to cash out $2000 - That doesn't sit well with me.

Another scenario - What IF I had a high rolling session and was already down $5000 then I deposit $1000 and hit for $5000 which leaves me $1000 in profit - Must I now squander my profit all in the name of a rule meant to be for people who deposit $50 and cash out $60?

Like mentioned previously - It has NEVER happened to me in 14 years. I make multiple deposits and I'm not held hostage because I failed to wager MY OWN money again. Like Tirilej mentioned, the rule is there to discourage certain behaviour - I assure you that I am not one of 'Those' people.

Now your WD goes back to the end of the queue, and you only receive it 25 hours later? WHY do I need to go through all that hassle - I play at lots of RTG Casino's and never had that issue - Until now.

Nate

 

[Nate]

I would be curious how a B+M casino would react if you changed your cash for chips, then immediately asked to cash out. Any vegas residents want to try it out and let me know how you get on?

Sorry - I am afraid there is a huge difference here. In this instance wagering / play took place to the tune of close to $800 - This cannot apply. It was not a case of deposit $50 and cash out $50.

Nate

 

[Borgie]

If it is the same casino as I referred to they are getting worse in every respect. Games rebooting every fifteen minutes and throwing you out to fun mode. My withdrawals now take 24 hrs longer to process. CS has been rude to me at least twice. The rep did not respond to my PM. .TBH I can't be bothered anymore - other places to deposit

 

[Nate]

If it is the same casino as I referred to they are getting worse in every respect. Games rebooting every fifteen minutes and throwing you out to fun mode. My withdrawals now take 24 hrs longer to process. CS has been rude to me at least twice. The rep did not respond to my PM. .TBH I can't be bothered anymore - other places to deposit

Nah this is a RTG Casino.

Nate

 

[Borgie]

Nah this is a RTG Casino.

Nate

Doh silly me sorry I knew that !!

 

[IanO]

Sorry - I am afraid there is a huge difference here. In this instance wagering / play took place to the tune of close to $800 - This cannot apply. It was not a case of deposit $50 and cash out $50.

Nate

Sorry Nate - Did not mean to muddy the examples and I fully get they are not the same. It was more my own thinking out loud as to how something like that might pan out. Potential de-rail averted and train back on track now

I agree that you should not have been held to the remaining requirement in this case, but when it comes to setting up rules for withdrawals it's so much easier to deal in absolutes then make exceptions if and when they are needed. In each of the examples you provided in your reply I agree that paying you/the player would be fair. OOC, when you approached support regarding this did you stop at first line CS or get through to any supervisor or managers?

This is a rare scenario and it certainly sounds like the casino could and should have handled it better. For anyone who finds themselves in a similar situation, my advice remains to try the rep first just in case.

 

[Nate]

Sorry Nate - Did not mean to muddy the examples and I fully get they are not the same. It was more my own thinking out loud as to how something like that might pan out. Potential de-rail averted and train back on track now

I agree that you should not have been held to the remaining requirement in this case, but when it comes to setting up rules for withdrawals it's so much easier to deal in absolutes then make exceptions if and when they are needed. In each of the examples you provided in your reply I agree that paying you/the player would be fair. OOC, when you approached support regarding this did you stop at first line CS or get through to any supervisor or managers?

This is a rare scenario and it certainly sounds like the casino could and should have handled it better. For anyone who finds themselves in a similar situation, my advice remains to try the rep first just in case.

No need to apologise mate - Your input is appreciated and welcome.

I requested the WD late at night and when i woke up the WD was already declined. I actually went in and wagered as per the request them submitted the WD. I KNOW that contacting CS would not have resolved it and after receiving snotty responses to earlier issues, I didn't bother engaging them again.

I might also add that the rep is not here over weekends (IIRC) - so that would not have helped. In any event, I was already p'ed off so PM'ing them for $30 - $50 was just a waste of time - I did what I was asked and withdrew.

I suppose its very NEW to me ( although I am a veteran at losing wads of Cash already. ) - usually Casinos try to retain me and not chase me away.

Money laundering is defined by engaging in suspicious or unusual transactions - I don't fall into that category.

Lastly I might add - the rule of 1x wagering is there to prevent people with 'no apparent business purpose' from taking your casino for a ride - IF all of the above dont apply ... WHY piss off your customers? A decent operation would have already done their due diligence like they do with everything else (I.e Bonuses) in ensuring that you get your WD in a timely manner, there are no hassles and lastly they are courteous and friendly!

Nate

 

[quber]

You should have just self-excluded, if they forced you to make any more play to get your funds then they would have been front line to lose accredited status.

I'm pretty sure i know which casino this is and i closed my account because of the incompetence and rudeness of their support. you are better off without them.

 

[Rick Deckard]

As others have already pointed out it is a preventative measure against potential money laundering.

I can only speculate why this is more prevalent online than in B+M casinos. Perhaps fraudsters are just less willing to enter a building filled with cameras to try and launder their money when an online option exists for them, so it's not become that big an issue for them.

I would be curious how a B+M casino would react if you changed your cash for chips, then immediately asked to cash out. Any vegas residents want to try it out and let me know how you get on?

Probably got this all wrong. But this is how I see it.


Anti laundering measure?

Wager an amount equal to the deposited amount, then legitimately withdraw the cash from the casino. In some magical way this process will clean a potentially unclean deposit. On the other hand the unclean money was all lost in the games and it's magically clean house money now.



Or, clean money is deposited. Player has read in terms and conditions section 2. Paragraph 8.3 sub-section D anti money laundering policy. Player wins very early on in their game and wants to cash out.

But, player knows he or she cannot cash out if they are lucky enough to win this early in their gaming. But know they must abide by the rules and gamble on. Oh dear the winnings are being eaten up. Player is kicking themselves they joined such an establishment with this policy in place.

Possibly they could have tried to bend the rules by contacting the CS and it's possible the CS may decline their request. I mean, how do CS know if player X is legit or not. They must follow the rules by enforcing this fraud policy. CS needs to go now as another customer is on live chat with user name Drug Lord Tony whose gambled his deposit at least once and now wants to know if CS can flush his withdrawal as he's in a hurry.

 

[skiny]

You should have just self-excluded, if they forced you to make any more play to get your funds then they would have been front line to lose accredited status.

I'm pretty sure i know which casino this is and i closed my account because of the incompetence and rudeness of their support. you are better off without them.

If he self excluded before withdrawing without clearing the wage requirement wouldn't he have just got his deposit back? I don't think self exclusion would be a very efficient way to get around wage requirements.

 

[quber]

If he self excluded before withdrawing without clearing the wage requirement wouldn't he have just got his deposit back? I don't think self exclusion would be a very efficient way to get around wage requirements.

If it was wagering requirements on a bonus I would agree, but wagering on your own deposited funds, when you take the whole days deposits and wagering into consideration, then I think he would have a good case to get it all.

 

[Nate]

If it was wagering requirements on a bonus I would agree, but wagering on your own deposited funds, when you take the whole days deposits and wagering into consideration, then I think he would have a good case to get it all.

True - But then I would open myself to other 'action' by them. The best course was to wager, withdraw and close my account.

Just double checked the other day - Account has been closed as per my request. It's sad really - I had a RTG itch for a few days and lost about $1500 in a day - but then again, the RTG Casino that got it doesn't treat me like trash. Another customer lost

Nate