Yet more Palace group SPAM!

mrmark21

Meister Member
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Nov 13, 2012
Location
australia
The Palace Group are not exactly in my good books of late either. Well I have been having issues ongoing with them for nearly three years now. I didn't realise they were still spamming players. Looks like I need to update a few pages on OCR.

I have had enough of them to be honest and as a result I am giving them the publicity they deserve. So I am going to spam this thread with the links to the publicity I have created for them. Feel free to delete Bryan, just fed up with them now. As enough is enough.

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Those are my thoughts exactly. I'm shocked at the lack of respect they seem to have for customers. Turning customers email accounts into waste baskets. I think you're spot on :)
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
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Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Having read the first link, maybe this is why there is so much spam. Affiliates are firmly grasped by the balls, and they MUST generate this minimum number of new players or face having all their earnings held hostage. This would encourage desperate measures, one of which would be to buy "grey market" mailing lists and fire off some random campaigns if it looks like targets are about to be missed.

The unusually high number of "self excludes" is also a concern. Why is one casino group having a high number of players who self exclude? It seems odd, and points to something being very wrong with the experience players get shortly after joining. Whatever it is, it prompts them to not only stop playing, but to ask for formal self exclusion.
One possible cause is of course misleading marketing, leaving players feeling they have been tricked after they have played for a bit, and leaving with prejudice. The casino group also seem to expect such players to issue chargebacks as a matter of course, yet this too is odd as self exclusion is one thing, making chargebacks as "revenge" is quite another.

Given a level playing field, there is no reason why Palace Group casinos should attract more than their fair share of "problem gamblers", something that all casinos have to deal with.

Maybe a good portion of these players have NOT actually "self excluded", but have been "booted" by Palace Group. It is also possible that these players have had winnings confiscated along with getting the boot. This WOULD present the operator with a high risk of "revenge" chargebacks from these players.

From my own personal experience it seems that Palace Group security are over zealous. I have been formally investigated twice in all the time I have played, and BOTH have been at the hands of the Palace Group risk department. I have a particularly "clean" profile, I live alone, noone else can open accounts on my connection, I have every conceivable bill in my name, I have a photo driving licence, held since 1977. I have lived at the same address for 26 years, and have been on the electoral roll all this time. I also have long records at the credit reference agencies. This should all come together to make verifying me as easy as sending in the standard set of documents. If I can be investigated twice with this level of consistency in my records, it would not be a surprise to find that players in less settled household circumstances find Palace Group verification hard going. This would then lead to an unusually high percentage of players leaving after joining.

From the affiliate perspective, it seems the program has tried to pass all this risk and more onto the affiliates, more so than other programs. This is probably why the blacklisting is on the affiliate side, whereas the players see a largely "good to go" casino group (apart from the spam).

There is also a conflict of interest when it comes to players getting their spam complaints dealt with. They are reporting a distinct lack of concern or effort from Palace Group when asking for something to be done about it, but the conflict is that the program WANTS the status quo to continue, and are even pressuring affiliates to get creative by forcing them to meet minimum targets for new players. Cracking down on spam would mean more affiliates failing to meet targets, and fewer overall new sign ups for the program. I am sure the idea behind these targets is to boost performance, not get rid of affiliates that fail to meet them. By holding their revenue hostage, they create fear among underperforming affiliates that they will lose thousands if they can't bring in a few new players. The more they have held hostage, the greater the incentive to try to sneak a spam campaign out.
 

mrmark21

Meister Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Location
australia
Some interesting points there VWM. I'm not surprised they are having such a high number of players who self exclude themselves considering the amount of spam they send.

The Palace group should be looking at others methods that affiliates can use to generate more customers.

Good post :)
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
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Location
United Kingdom
Some interesting points there VWM. I'm not surprised they are having such a high number of players who self exclude themselves considering the amount of spam they send.

The Palace group should be looking at others methods that affiliates can use to generate more customers.

Good post :)

They should be cracking down on affiliates who spam, and be seen by others to be doing so. Affiliates are paid to develop the marketing strategies, so it is their job to look at other marketing methods. The program's job is to supply marketing material, support, and of course a campaign monitoring and payment service.

If affiliates who spam get away with it, others will see this and realise that they too can make their life easy by spamming. It will also draw in affiliates who from the outset use spam as their main marketing tool.

As far as the average player is concerned, the spamming villain is the casino, they know little or nothing about how affiliate programs work. If they did, they would know that 30% or more of their net loss is being paid to the person who led them there, which could be a spammer.
 

mrmark21

Meister Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Location
australia
They should be cracking down on affiliates who spam, and be seen by others to be doing so. Affiliates are paid to develop the marketing strategies, so it is their job to look at other marketing methods. The program's job is to supply marketing material, support, and of course a campaign monitoring and payment service.

If affiliates who spam get away with it, others will see this and realise that they too can make their life easy by spamming. It will also draw in affiliates who from the outset use spam as their main marketing tool.

As far as the average player is concerned, the spamming villain is the casino, they know little or nothing about how affiliate programs work. If they did, they would know that 30% or more of their net loss is being paid to the person who led them there, which could be a spammer.

Well I just received more spam from SpamPalace :rolleyes:

I just figure the Palace Group just don't care enough to do anything about the issue. No doubt they are also loosing customers.
 

mrmark21

Meister Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Location
australia
I received more spam from SpinPalace aka SpamPalace yesterday. The offer looked good so I decided to give them the benefit of the doubt...

spinpalace.jpg

Over the span of one frustratingly terrible hour, below's what happened...


info: Our support team will be with you shortly. You are currently number 1 in the queue. We estimate that you will be answered within 6 seconds.
info: You are now chatting with 'Cheslin'

Cheslin: Hi there mark
Cheslin: My name is Cheslin
Cheslin: How may I assist you today?
mark: hello
mark: i'd like to know where is you're instant casino?
Cheslin: Hi Mark, you can find the casino at:
Cheslin:
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mark: have i ever made a deposit?
Cheslin: Our records show that no transactions were ever made on this account.
mark: okay thanks for you're help, will the bonus be credited automatically?
Cheslin: Which bonus are you referring to Mark?
mark: the 200%
Cheslin: Can you confirm when you received this offer?
mark:
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mark: ??
Cheslin: The account that you are referring to is currently closed Mark.
mark: yes i want to know before i reopen the account
mark: ?
Cheslin: I am unable to see such an offer on your account.
mark: did you not look at the link?
mark: can you confirm that the welcome bonus is 200%?
Cheslin: Please hold.
Cheslin: Thank you for holding Mark, I am unable to confirm this offer for you.
mark: so you're not willing to honor that offer?
mark: I'd like to speak to a supervisor
Cheslin: Thank you for waiting. I'll be with you in just a moment.
Cheslin: We are busy attending to your query, please hold for a minute. Thank you.
Cheslin: Thank you for your patience, i am still going through your account.
mark: whats the chance of getting an answer today?
Cheslin: I will be right with you.
Cheslin: Okay, I am done looking at your account.
Cheslin: What I could do for you is escalate this matter to the promotions team to find out if we could honor the Sign on bonus offer since you never received it.
Cheslin: Currently I am unable to credit to you upon your first deposit.
mark: and why not?
Cheslin: Please allow 24-48 hours for a response and we will get back to you with regards to the request to have the offer.
Cheslin: That is what I want to find out for you.
Cheslin: I have to contact the promotions team.
mark: Yes but why not? I should be entitled to a first deposit offer.
Cheslin: I will have to find this out for you Mark.
mark: what have you spent the last twenty minutes doing then?
Cheslin: I'm sorry for the delay. I'll be right with you.
Cheslin: We are busy attending to your query, please hold for a minute. Thank you.
Cheslin: As I have mentioned Mark, my hands are tied at the moment so I will need to ask our promotions team to look into this for you. Kindly allow between 24 and 48 hours for them to contact you in this regard.
mark: so what were you doing in the last ten minutes if not looking into my account?
mark: i want to speak too a supervisor
Cheslin: Please hold.
Cheslin: I have been reviewing your account and discussing with my colleagues what we could do to resolve this problem for you.
mark: I havent asked that, I've asked why I'm not entitled to my welcome bonus offer? You still havent given me an answer
Cheslin: I do apologize for any inconvenience you experience and I will speak to the promotions team to find out if you will be eligible for the Sign on bonus offer.
Cheslin: Let me answer you on that question...
mark: but you can't answer my question and have made me wait close to forty minutes for no reason?
mark: then give me an answer and by the way didnt i ask to speak too a supervisor?
Cheslin: I will send a request through to see if we could arrange a supervisor to give you a call.
Cheslin: With regards to your questions...
mark: you said you would answer my question?
mark: Cheslin: Let me answer you on that question...
Cheslin: The Sign on bonus is only available for you for 7 days from registration.
Cheslin: So if a deposit was not made within that 7 days it will not automatically credit
Cheslin: hence the reason i said i will ask the operations team if they could waive that term for you and have it credited
mark: but why didnt you tell me that in the beginning instead of making me wait forty minutes?
Cheslin: I am sincerely sorry and it was not intentional
Cheslin: I am constantly on about 3 chats but its not an excuse but now you have my undivded attention.
Cheslin: undivided*
Cheslin: Does the above make sense Mark?
mark: so i didnt have youre undivided attention before when you were making me wait for fourty minutes?
mark: so how do i know you even looked into my account?
mark: i don't even want to play at you're casino after this, i think this has pretty much summed up any doubts i had about that.
mark: Thanks for you're help. bye


The customer support took nearly one hour to give me an answer to a very simple question. They were so busy tending to other customers they didn't even notice my original question: Why wasn't I eligible? Most of the posts by customer support were self automated!

The problem isn't the affiliates, it's the casino itself. They spam my inbox constantly with terrible offers some of which I'm not even eligible to receive. No wonder their are so many self excluded players... Something for me to get onto now.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I don't even see ANYTHING about this being a welcome bonus for new players only in that email. Since you had an account, it could have been an existing player offer.

Perhaps the 40 minutes was spent trying to concoct an explanation that didn't involve telling a player about affiliates, and how affiliate systems of marketing work. Often, players get "this came from an affilate, not us, and affiliates sometimes promote out of date offers, and as this one is no longer valid, we can't credit you with the bonus".

The other explanation for the 40 minutes is that the CS agent didn't want you to be sent away with negative feelings after receiving a direct "no", since this might ensure you never consider playing there again. Unfortunately, the alternative approach has had the opposite effect, as rather than accepting a couple of days wait whilst they get back to you, you have decided not to pursue this anyway and play elsewhere.

Their failure to keep affiliates in check now seems to be doing some serious damage to their brand.
 

mrmark21

Meister Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Location
australia
I don't even see ANYTHING about this being a welcome bonus for new players only in that email. Since you had an account, it could have been an existing player offer.

Perhaps the 40 minutes was spent trying to concoct an explanation that didn't involve telling a player about affiliates, and how affiliate systems of marketing work. Often, players get "this came from an affilate, not us, and affiliates sometimes promote out of date offers, and as this one is no longer valid, we can't credit you with the bonus".

The other explanation for the 40 minutes is that the CS agent didn't want you to be sent away with negative feelings after receiving a direct "no", since this might ensure you never consider playing there again. Unfortunately, the alternative approach has had the opposite effect, as rather than accepting a couple of days wait whilst they get back to you, you have decided not to pursue this anyway and play elsewhere.

Their failure to keep affiliates in check now seems to be doing some serious damage to their brand.

This offer came directly from Spin Palace not an affiliate. That's probably the most shocking part about the whole thing. I agree I also don't see anything about this being a welcome bonus for new players only.
 

Webzcas

Winter is Coming!
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Location
Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
Going back to VWM's point:

Having read the first link, maybe this is why there is so much spam. Affiliates are firmly grasped by the balls, and they MUST generate this minimum number of new players or face having all their earnings held hostage.

This is very true. According to my stats, the players I have referred to WagerShare ( The affiliate program for the Palace Group ), the ones which have not been locked :rolleyes:, have so far generated another £277.31 in earnings this month alone. I had removed all links to the Palace Group properties after they screwed me around, back in 2010, reducing my earnings percentage and also the VERY HIGH proportion of self excluding players ( this in itself is very suspect, mirrored of late by a lot of affiliates ).

Now they have implemented the FU New Player Quota clause, whereby, they are holding hostage on the latest check as of this morning, in excess of $2000 from me, which has been held back over the past year.

Not only have the Palace Group been the subject of numerous spam complaints as a result of their affiliates or possibly themselves, they also REFUSE to engage with their affiliate partners and so it would seem, they also REFUSE to tackle this spam problem.

Therefore, I am making it a personal mission of mine as a webmaster, to give the Palace Group and their dubious activities as much exposure as possible. As they are directly stealing from myself and my family. :mad:

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KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
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Therefore, I am making it a personal mission of mine as a webmaster, to give the Palace Group and their dubious activities as much exposure as possible. As they are directly stealing from myself and my family. :mad:
As a first step, how about leaning on Bryan to try to persuade him to remove their casinos from the Accredited list?

I tried a couple of times, starting way back when I started this thread, but they are still on the list.
Personally I think it reflects very badly on the other accredited casinos who DO abide by the "no spamming" requirement.
I am 99.9% sure WagerShare are behind the vast majority of the spam themselves, either through 3rd parties, or directly.

Disclaimer: Just want to make one thing clear for other readers: As a PLAYER at any of their casinos you will be treated totally fairly and are unlikely to have any problems with them (apart from the spam bombardment). My only issues with them are their marketing policies; The spam and the holding affy money "hostage".

KK
 

Nate

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I have already submitted my first ever PAB which relates to this matter. Not holding out much hope though.

I'm hoping to see the outcome of this.

What I am reading here is REALLY appalling. To top it off, the Wagershare Rep last visited this thread September last year...

Nate
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Going back to VWM's point:



This is very true. According to my stats, the players I have referred to WagerShare ( The affiliate program for the Palace Group ), the ones which have not been locked :rolleyes:, have so far generated another £277.31 in earnings this month alone. I had removed all links to the Palace Group properties after they screwed me around, back in 2010, reducing my earnings percentage and also the VERY HIGH proportion of self excluding players ( this in itself is very suspect, mirrored of late by a lot of affiliates ).

Now they have implemented the FU New Player Quota clause, whereby, they are holding hostage on the latest check as of this morning, in excess of $2000 from me, which has been held back over the past year.

Not only have the Palace Group been the subject of numerous spam complaints as a result of their affiliates or possibly themselves, they also REFUSE to engage with their affiliate partners and so it would seem, they also REFUSE to tackle this spam problem.

Therefore, I am making it a personal mission of mine as a webmaster, to give the Palace Group and their dubious activities as much exposure as possible. As they are directly stealing from myself and my family. :mad:

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This just illustrates the point. There IS a simple way out for you, but presumably your morals will not allow you to go there. Other affiliates clearly ARE prepared to lower their standards when they have significant commission held hostage, and know that simply generating a set number of new signups will release it.

With so many players getting snared by the "black hat" worshippers, there are fewer left for the affiliates with higher moral standards, who may find that they have no legitimate means to find enough new players to release their money.

It must be VERY tempting if you are just one or two short, and know for a near fact that launching a one off spam deluge will do the trick and get your hostage money released, plus of course knowing that even if reported, you are unlikely to face a sanction from the program.
 

Webzcas

Winter is Coming!
Joined
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Location
Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
It would be easy to give a friend or friends some money and sign up under one of my links to get around the quota, but where would this end? This is akin to being blackmailed to continue to promote them, fully well knowing that the number of locked accounts that occurs at Wagershare is significantly higher than any other program out there. If it weren't for the high proportion of locked accounts, they would have coverage on my sites and no doubt this Quota clause would not be enacted.

I have kept a lid on my own situation publicly for nearly three years. But enough is enough now. For me it is the principle of the matter. Whether they owe me $2, $2000 or $20,000.

Webspam aside, the way Win Technologies the parent company of The Palace Group operate their business is in my opinion, unethical and as such in my book, they are a rogue outfit.
 

mrmark21

Meister Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Location
australia
It would be easy to give a friend or friends some money and sign up under one of my links to get around the quota, but where would this end? This is akin to being blackmailed to continue to promote them, fully well knowing that the number of locked accounts that occurs at Wagershare is significantly higher than any other program out there. If it weren't for the high proportion of locked accounts, they would have coverage on my sites and no doubt this Quota clause would not be enacted.

I have kept a lid on my own situation publicly for nearly three years. But enough is enough now. For me it is the principle of the matter. Whether they owe me $2, $2000 or $20,000.

Webspam aside, the way Win Technologies the parent company of The Palace Group operate their business is in my opinion, unethical and as such in my book, they are a rogue outfit.

How did you're PAB go? I think that Wagershare and SpamPalace are a blight to both affiliates and players (even more so after reading you're posts). I've had a negative experience at SpinPalace and IMO you are on the mark about them being a rogue outfit. I'm really hoping to see a positive outcome from you're PAB :)
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
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Location
United Kingdom
It would be easy to give a friend or friends some money and sign up under one of my links to get around the quota, but where would this end? This is akin to being blackmailed to continue to promote them, fully well knowing that the number of locked accounts that occurs at Wagershare is significantly higher than any other program out there. If it weren't for the high proportion of locked accounts, they would have coverage on my sites and no doubt this Quota clause would not be enacted.

I have kept a lid on my own situation publicly for nearly three years. But enough is enough now. For me it is the principle of the matter. Whether they owe me $2, $2000 or $20,000.

Webspam aside, the way Win Technologies the parent company of The Palace Group operate their business is in my opinion, unethical and as such in my book, they are a rogue outfit.

Given this high proportion of locked accounts, where are the complaints from players who have had their accounts locked. The forum is littered with "my account has been locked for no reason" complaints, but if anything, Palace Group are Underrepresented, despite having a higher number of locked accounts than other affiliate programs when viewed from the affiliate side.

Each affiliate is going to have the same type of traffic going through their site, and if they are attracting the wrong kind, they should see this reflected across all the programs they work with, not just one.
 

Webzcas

Winter is Coming!
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Location
Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
How did you're PAB go? I think that Wagershare and SpamPalace are a blight to both affiliates and players (even more so after reading you're posts). I've had a negative experience at SpinPalace and IMO you are on the mark about them being a rogue outfit. I'm really hoping to see a positive outcome from you're PAB :)

Still ongoing as far as I am aware. However, whilst the amount they owe me is still rising, last month an additional £413 earnt from my 'unlocked' player base and a further £170 so far for April, I have already written off this money and previous monies accumulated which are being withheld.

I am however, extremely interested in the latest spam reports concerning the promotion of Win Technologies ( aka Palace Group ) owned casinos which have been posted about here on CasinoMeister.

I also notice one of their acquisitions Betway is being pushed big time here in the UK at least, with television advertisements no less. So I will also be affording Betway suitable publicity.

If any players have issues with any of the Palace Group properties, please can you inbox me here or alternatively email me at davesawyer @ bathrockmedia.com, with full details and I will thus ensure these are given publicity on not just OCR but many of my other sites within my network.
 

mrmark21

Meister Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Location
australia
Still ongoing as far as I am aware. However, whilst the amount they owe me is still rising, last month an additional £413 earnt from my 'unlocked' player base and a further £170 so far for April, I have already written off this money and previous monies accumulated which are being withheld.

I am however, extremely interested in the latest spam reports concerning the promotion of Win Technologies ( aka Palace Group ) owned casinos which have been posted about here on CasinoMeister.

I also notice one of their acquisitions Betway is being pushed big time here in the UK at least, with television advertisements no less. So I will also be affording Betway suitable publicity.

If any players have issues with any of the Palace Group properties, please can you inbox me here or alternatively email me at davesawyer @ bathrockmedia.com, with full details and I will thus ensure these are given publicity on not just OCR but many of my other sites within my network.

I'm surprised that Casinomeister hasn't rogued the Palace Group after reading some of the information found within this forum.

I posted a couple of issues I've personally experienced with this group earlier on this thread. I think you are doing a good thing warning others about this group :thumbsup:
 
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dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
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This is weird - after whingeing on this tread a couple of weeks ago about incessant Palace group spam, it suddenly stopped. Now I'm getting hit by 888.com spam every day, plus Winner casino crap. It seems a group of rogue affiliates link to various casino groups are simply rotating their crap. May they genitals be infested by the fleas of a thousand camels.:mad:
 

Webzcas

Winter is Coming!
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Location
Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
Going back to the Palace Group and Wagershare. Whilst holding on to the money they owe me, they still see fit to send me their Wagershare spam emails.

A serious case of taking the P if ever there was one. Especially as there is more chance of Hell freezing over before I would even consider working with those charlatans ever again.
 

dunover

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Going back to the Palace Group and Wagershare. Whilst holding on to the money they owe me, they still see fit to send me their Wagershare spam emails.

A serious case of taking the P if ever there was one. Especially as there is more chance of Hell freezing over before I would even consider working with those charlatans ever again.

How's life at Ashton (RELE)Gate lately?:D
 
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