1. Follow Casinomeister on Twitter | Facebook | YouTube | Casinomeister.us US Residents Click here! |  Svenska Svenska | 
  2. By continuing to use the site, you agree to the use of cookies. You can find out more by following.Find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Sister site to Casino Max launches

    Roaring 21 has just launched - sister casino to Casino Max, and they have a special promotion for you!! .They are in the Baptism by Fire - you can check them out here: Roaring 21 BBF and special promo.


    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice

BGO Exclusive Promo: 25 free spins with No Wagering on Archangels Salvation

Get Up to 25 free spins on Archangels: Salvation
No wagering requirements and No Max Win cap!

New Depositing players ONLY.
Dismiss Notice
REGISTER NOW!! Why? Because you can't do diddly squat without having been registered!

At the moment you have limited access to view most discussions: you can't make contact with thousands of fellow players, affiliates, casino reps, and all sorts of other riff-raff.

Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join Casinomeister here!

XXLClubCasino V Me Opinion wanted

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by uungy, Jul 29, 2007.

    Jul 29, 2007
  1. uungy

    uungy Dormant account PABnononaccred PABnoaccred PABaccred

    I havent had the time to do this recently, however I have been in contact with XXLLCC in regards to this, and we are both open to hear what people think.

    I had a dispute with Fank, and this is basically how it goes. I obviously put my side out, and I will try to put out XXLClubs point, but being biased to myself its a little difficult

    I recieved an offer back in December
    Note where the T&C's link goes to, which is an anchor by the monthly bonus terms, which has no maximum cash out.

    I wagered as required, and requested a withdrawal, however I only recieved 100 of my withdrawal.

    I was told the reason was because it had a maximum withdrawal of 100 (not mentioned in the email or in the t&c's in the link), however the terms for this offer are right down the page, whihc is for offeres sent to 200 customers or whatever, however that wasn't where the link took me to. it would have been to You must register/login in order to see the link.. I honestly did not see those terms there, as they were at the bottom of the page, and only saw them after my withdrawal was refused, when it was pointed out by them.

    Emails sent after, had it in the email about the maximum withdrawal limit, however the one above sent on the 23rd Dec, had no info about it.

    While the 10 was a free gift, however I believe the terms and conditions are there to stay.

    Different partial bonus form offers were offered to me instead, like a 15%-50% of my withdrawal with the standard wagering requirements.

    Playtech were not helpful, but to be honest when I contacted Frank through this website he was very helpful, alot more so then Playtech. They never respond, and do nothing in the players interest, as proven before with the wofacai casino problem. So I am not bashing him at all, just want to hear what others think
     
  2. Jul 29, 2007
  3. SlotsWizard

    SlotsWizard Dormant account webmeister

    Occupation:
    I currently work for the Wizard of Odds
    Location:
    North of Antarctica
    How big was the withdrawal you tried to make?

    They should meet you halfway: halfway between the 100 Euros maximum and the actual amount you tried to withdraw.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Jul 29, 2007
  5. uungy

    uungy Dormant account PABnononaccred PABnoaccred PABaccred

    The withdrawal was for 411, which included a very few of comp points as far as I remember

    I may be coming up as unfair, however while a half half sounds fine, its not what the terms say or was advertised
     
  6. Jul 29, 2007
  7. niklas

    niklas Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Programmer
    Location:
    Sweden
    If they fail to effectively communicate any terms of the promotion, I don't think you should be bound by them. It was their mistake that made you miss the max cashout term, not yours. Players make mistakes all the time and we pay for them, like missclicking in blackjack and taking insurance when you didn't mean to, or forgetting to set your bet size when entering a VP or slots game.

    But it does feel good when the dealer hits the blackjack or you get dealt a good hand on that bet of 10 times what you intended. :)
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Jul 29, 2007
  9. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount. webby PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Playing devil's advocate again:

    Yes, it was your responsibility to read the T&C.
    Yes, it was their fault for providing you with a link to the wrong T&C.

    Even so, you should have known that these were the wrong T&C. It clearly states that those T&C were for a monthly bonus, NOT the xmas gift. If there's any discrepancy over T&C, you should get it cleared up before you play. That goes for anyone :)

    No, it's not the casino's duty to give you your full cashout.

    But, in the interest of keeping you on as a customer, they should agree to a "settlement".
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Jul 29, 2007
  11. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    You are BOTH wrong!

    The full terms are for a max of 100 in WINNINGS, therefore, with the total absence of any term indicating the bonus 10 was "phantom", you should receive 110.

    The Mailer is confusing as it repeats SOME of the terms, but misses out TWO critical ones, the max cashout AND the game restrictions.


    I also notice that despite all the obvious "advantage" opportunities having been removed for the clever UK player (Double up on Blackjack, big Pair+ on poker 3 etc), they STILL insist that here in the UK we are somehow "skillful" at SLOTS!!!! Bollox to that, admit they are NON RANDOM & I will accept there is justification to bump up WR for Brits who, uniquely in the developed world, can play "slots" during childhood at the seaside "amusement casinos" at the end of the pier, and develop intuitive skills that enables them to press "spin" in that very "special" way that gives them an edge.
     
    2 people like this.
  12. Jul 29, 2007
  13. uungy

    uungy Dormant account PABnononaccred PABnoaccred PABaccred

    Well the point is, there were no T&C's at the time which would point to the correct terms and conditions

    The only other T&C's were about mailers sent to the 200 customers or something, which had no mention in the email about it.

    The email had all the info in regards to what it can be wagered on, and it all matched with the monthly anyway, so I accepted that was the T&C's.

    To say you should contact the casino about the promotion, I would onlyu do that if there are any discrepancies, but there were non I could see, it all seemed so well put out, what was there to ask?

    Also vinylweatherman, it may be they were wrong too, but you havent explained what you think. If the email had no information about it, why am I in the wrong, when they clearly steered me to those terms?
     
  14. Jul 29, 2007
  15. XXLClubCasino

    XXLClubCasino Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Casino Manager
    Location:
    Curacao
    We did offer a settlement where we would give the player 150€ (50% from the remaining 300€ / (400winning-100paid)) in bonus to be wagered 12x with no maximum cashout this on top of the 100€ that was already paid to the player.

    My position was always that the wrongly formatted inner link pointed to the right page but not to the right inner link which point to the monthly loyalty bonus that as really nothing to do with the free Xmas bonus. I feel that the player received a totally free Xmas gift of 100€ with no deposit needed nor had to risk any of its own cash and he should/could be happy about it and should not try to find a smart way to get more out of it. Other players that win from the same free Xmas promotion send us a thank you email!

    It was also my Idea to ask players from this forum to give us their opinion about what a fair resolution could be to this unfortunate typo in an inner anchor.

    Anyway I agree that we were partially wrong as the anchor was wrongly formatted by mistake and there fore proposed the settlement as stated previously.

    I hope to have given our side of the story accurately back (6 months have past). Uungy please do correct me if I'm not.

    Please give us all your opinion and I will comply with what ever comes out!
     
  16. Jul 29, 2007
  17. XXLClubCasino

    XXLClubCasino Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Casino Manager
    Location:
    Curacao
    PS. we are working on having UK players treated as any other players 12x WR instead of the 25x. Should be in place next month.
     
  18. Jul 30, 2007
  19. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    The term starts "ALL", as in "All free cash promotions". So if this was a free chip, these terms would apply, even though a confusion has been thrown in becase it then goes on to specify the rules for the "first 200" mailer promotion, whereas yours was a different one, a Christmas gift. (it's a tiny mistake - not remembering the word ALL when you initially read through all the T & C before playing bonuses;) - and then realising that maybe there was a mistake, and checking with CS)
    The casino is wrong on more than one count though, since the link went to a SPECIFIC set of terms, and not just to the start of the page, the player can normally expect that those were the specific terms for the promotion received, even though the monthly was used as an illustrative example, just as the "first 200" mailer is an illustrative example for what the casino say were the proper terms.

    In retrospect, even if you knew the max cashout, you would have still won some 400, and still lost all but 100 (or 110). You might, however, have had more "entertainment" value by playing off the excess on the more amusing slots until you had enough to make the max cashout.

    I find all these max cashout rules a bit of a "con", as they have the effect of increasing the house edge by the back door when, by chance, a good winning spell comes along when a max cashout chip is being played, which means that earlier losses, although recovered, are then removed rather than bringing up the average payout over the life of the account.

    Max cashouts seem to indicate the casinos are "afraid of something" in terms of players hitting big. It would be better to lower the rate of bonuses awarded, rather than pile them on with such limits on what is the best outcome of a session, a big win.
    Psycologically, gamblers remember the big wins (payouts), but not so the boring and usually losing sessions. Thus, lost winnings due to max cashout rules will stick in the memory, and MAY induce reluctance to play with bonuses. This may be best for the casino, but only if the competition follows the same strategy.
    It is EXTREMELY RARE to have a max cashout at any Microgaming casino outside of the "free 1 hour & $500" or "free $10 - no deposit required" promotional types used to bring in new players. I would have said "unheard of", but there has been one instance posted of an MG imposing a max cashout on a free chip given to an EXISTING player - can't remember the exact details.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Jul 30, 2007
  21. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It may have been the right page, however it appears that there were NO "correct terms" for the promotion anyway, even looking through the whole page.
    There IS a term about a free $10 available to the first 200 replies, and you are arguing that uungy should have realised this was the correct terms (granted), HOWEVER, your agument is that uungy should have realised the mistake because the link went to the terms for "a different promotion". This gives inconsitency to the argument - you cannot both say that terms being for a different promotion are clearly wrong, yet then claim that another set of terms, again for what is a different promotion, are intrinsically right.

    uungy is of course attempting to squeeze as much value as possible from the Xmas chip, but so would any self respecting gambler, more winnings now means more available for further gambling tomorrow. Casinos are doing the exact same, attempting to squeeze as much value as possible from their player base, what self respecting casino wouldn't, more hold now means better marketing opportunities tomorrow.

    If we argue that uungy is somehow a "rogue" for what he has tried, then it follows that so is the casino.

    A negotiated compromise is the best solution, both sides are wrong in part, and the casino needs to ensure that every promotion has it's own specific set of terms, quoting the actual promotion itself, not just one that may be "similar" to one party but not to the other, or confusing to everyone.

    Players would rather NOT have to contact CS for every tiny matter, this is from experience of queues, inept first replies, and ignored E-mails, when we want to play NOW!
     
    1 person likes this.
  22. Jul 30, 2007
  23. uungy

    uungy Dormant account PABnononaccred PABnoaccred PABaccred

    Fair point, but to say "you anyway would have had to give in the extra above 100" is not really what I am saying, as thats not the terms and conditions given, are the ones which have to be honoured

    While its fair to say that it was free etc., but terms stay as they are given

    Clearly "all free cash" could have been appropriate (which I didnt notice when i click the link) however the "monthly bonus" could be just as appropriate

    No one is saying I didnt appreciate the bonus, but thats a side point altogether, and doesnt justify the fact that the wrong terms were given

    I accepted the main terms were in the email, and the rest was just explained in the link
     
  24. Jul 30, 2007
  25. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom

    Well, look on the bright side, another prod from me about another issue, and we get this:-


    It shouldn't take long, surely casinos are free to set their own rules - I would have expected this to have been done already from the case put in the earlier thread that the game exclusions rule out the kinds of advantage play that would need an elevated WR for a high value currency.

    I've seen worse, one Playtech is offering a high roller "deposit 5000 for 1000", phantom bonus, and WR of 50x D+B with quite a few game exclusions:eek: This would pretty much be a donation of 5000 to the casino, and is not going to get them many British players other than those that don't care about never cashing in, or don't bother with promotions.
     
    1 person likes this.
  26. Jul 30, 2007
  27. uungy

    uungy Dormant account PABnononaccred PABnoaccred PABaccred

    I can never work that out too. Also when casinos add the clause "when depositing in GBP and the user isn't from the UK the wagering goes up to xx" why do they do that? What do they care what currency is used to deposit?

    It doesn't effect me, but just cant get around their terms.

    True something has changed, to the positive, but just cant work out why casinos have to give a hard chase around.
     
  28. Jul 30, 2007
  29. happygobrokey

    happygobrokey Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student of life
    Location:
    canada
    hey uungy! i was at one of those last night.

    signup: 100% to 150, many exclusions ("normal" ones plus all blackjacks, JoB, A&F vp, war), normal wagering 10x.

    - non-uk players using pounds 50x.
    - uk players using pounds 50x.
    - uk players using euro or us dollars 50x.
    - north americans using euro 50x.
    - players from countries W,X,Y, and Z 50x or 100x.
    - and possibly a limited cashout or forced into slots only if you fall into any of the above groups, if i'm not mistaken. good thing i read that all super-carefully before signing up eh:thumbsup:

    and the craziest part was they are advertised here. and when i made the deposit of USD 150, i only got 45 of bonus and am now in the midst of getting this cleared up. they told me i was only eligible for 30% on my first deposit unless i came from an affiliate link. to which i responded i did, and mentioned navigating by myself to their website yields the same bonus offer?? this was just this evening i sent the reply, so i await their response to my reply to them.

    and now to re-rail, i think the casino were partially responsible for the misunderstanding, and since xxl replied here also that "the other ones who won didn't try to squeeze us, they patted us on the back" it implies they had few winners and possibly none winning more than the imposed max. and by this i mean it sounds like the casino got its take on this anyway without a max win being even an issue anywhere else. plus, i don't think you could reasonably expect a "first 200 responders" to be the relevant section when it wasn't what was pointed to, nor was "first 200 only" mentioned as being in the email (was it?). and why was the word Xmas bonus never used on the page?

    i think splitting it amicably at 200, half the total won and twice the alleged max cashout, would be the best way to settle it. xxl already offered some back as a bonus, so that's nearly an admission of liability in my eyes. and given the evidence i think they do owe him something, and applying his own winnings as bonus just ain't cricket imo. i would pay 200 and offer a nice incentive bonus next month or double comps on next deposit or any token gesture to welcome the player back. :thumbsup:
     
    1 person likes this.
  30. Jul 30, 2007
  31. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This is complete stupidity where their a$$es are well covered by the game exclusions. Such terms, coupled with the low variance of Playtech slots in general, and the bonus being "sticky", leaves such players with near to no chance of EVER winning from these promotions. Playing without promotions ALSO puts them at a disadvantage, as the general game payouts are lowered by the software provider to allow the casino to use free money as a promotional tool in the first place.

    The UK is the ONLY "first world" country to start taking this industry seriously, rather than either ignoring it or attempting to restrict or ban it for it's own citizens - and this is the thanks we get from Playtech:mad:
    Although other countries DO issue online gaming licences, it is merely intended as a tool to freeze out offshore operators in favour of state run games (see cases brought against Germany and Italy in the EU courts for "protectionism").
     
  32. Jul 30, 2007
  33. Pinababy69

    Pinababy69 RIP Lisa

    Occupation:
    Crusader
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario - Canada
    I'm with Winbig on this one. Incorrect terms link sent in the mailer or not, it was a free/no deposit chip, and as such should be subject to their free chip rules, which if I understand correctly, ARE posted in their T&C's? And while I don't play at Playtech myself, I do know that it is common practice to set a max cashout on totally free chips, usually 10X the amount of the chip. I didn't say it is ALWAYS that way...I said it's common, before anyone jumps down my throat.

    And again, anytime I get a free chip from anywhere....I would contact support to verify the correct WR and cashout policy. I think that the $100 payout, and an offer to have the other $150 given as a bonus is a fair compromise. JMO.
     
    1 person likes this.
  34. Jul 30, 2007
  35. uungy

    uungy Dormant account PABnononaccred PABnoaccred PABaccred

    There are no details which refer to free chips. (the all free chips heading has been changed since if I am not mistaken)

    Just because its common, it makes no sense to ask. Asking the reps, as someone said earlier often takes a while to get an answer, besides, if there is no info in the terms, why should someone suspect that.

    This is about, if a casino offers an incentive, whatever it may be, and the casino prides itself with being honest and fair, it should stick to the terms given. It makes no sense to say "often there is a max cashout, so it should apply here too" as that was not what was in the terms, so how can that be added and expected that a casino can just get away with that?

    This is about what would be the "right thing" taking into account what the casino has laid down as the terms in the mailer/website
     
  36. Jul 30, 2007
  37. XXLClubCasino

    XXLClubCasino Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Casino Manager
    Location:
    Curacao
    The terms that applied to the Xmas bonus was and still is
    --------------------------------------------
    All Free Cash Promotions

    The FREE Cash Bonus mentioned in the promotional email will be given only to the first 200 players who initially received this email.

    Some of our bonuses are given automatically, and others have to be requested. If you have not received your bonus automatically please send an email to This email is not visible to you..

    Please note that:
    In the interest of fair gaming, you must wager at least 25 (twenty five) times the FREE cash amount before making any cash outs.

    Bets placed in the games Craps, Roulette (all sorts of Roulette), Blackjack (all sorts of blackjack), Video Poker (all sorts of Video Poker), Sic Bo, Poker Three and Baccarat does not fulfil the player's obligations with regard to the minimum wagering requirements.

    The above mentioned restricted games CAN'T be played before fulfilling the wagering requirement or all winnings will be void.

    Money won on restricted games before the completion of the bonus wagering requirements will not be available for withdrawal.

    Provided that the €/$/10 has been wagered in full, any balance over and above the original €/$/10 will be considered winnings.

    A maximum winnings of €/$/100 may be withdrawn.

    For full Casino Terms and Conditions please click here
    --------------------------------------------------

    The link to it is: You must register/login in order to see the link.
    in the Xmas promotion the link You must register/login in order to see the link. was given.

    note the difference at the end of the link #gop instead of #lb

    Also common sense would say that a free Xmas promotion as absolutely nothing to do with the monthly deposit bonus and any player would recognize it and accept the email to have had a typo.

    We are fair and we stick to our T&C saying we are not fair and honest because of an obvious wrongly formated anchor is going a little bit too far!!

    PS: The T&C were updated today to remove the unpopular 25/35 WR for UK resident with accounts. Nothing else was added or changed.
     
  38. Jul 30, 2007
  39. tristan727

    tristan727 Banned user - violation of <a href="http://www.ca

    Occupation:
    credit manager
    Location:
    London
    Why have these promos, if relies on the customer hunting down obscure t and c's buried somewhere in jargon. You don't get any problems with any promos with any Wagerworks or Crypto casinos - you just need to check out your cashier account & you can see if any probs straight away, like wagering not counting towards a bonus or something. Keep it simple, or don't do it.

    If I was going round offering a free 10 euro chip to hundreds of customers - I'd have it blazened over half the email that the max cashout was only 100....so why was it not even mentioned, this lil minor wee tidbit? Call me sceptic, but whomever write's up these emails probably thinks you can't have anything in it, which might appear negative, or a downer?
     
    1 person likes this.

Share This Page