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WR, deposit+bonus X10,X15,...X30: from when do you find WR acceptable ?

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by philipfromparis, Aug 5, 2005.

    Aug 5, 2005
  1. philipfromparis

    philipfromparis Dormant account

    Location:
    Paris, France
    Hi there,

    Just have a little question to ask to the valuable community of pro gamblers, especially those who are used to play with bonus and who have understood all the interest to play with them : from when do you think it's possible to meet the WR ? (deposit + bonus X10,X15,X20...) I've seen in some places X30, even X40 ?!? And in other words, when do you think it is a swindle ?

    Thanks for your precious comments

    Philipfromparis
     
  2. Aug 5, 2005
  3. Vesuvio

    Vesuvio Dormant account

    Location:
    UK
    I don't like going much above 20x d+b on manual offers, but in order to tell if a bonus is worth doing you should just base it on the expected profit and the hourly rate that works out at for your chosen stake. What are you willing to work for?

    e.g. a 100/100 bonus with BJ allowed will usually stay profitable right up until around 125x d+b, but if you're getting above 100x you'd probably be better off picking up coins in the street :D
     
  4. Aug 5, 2005
  5. Macgyver

    Macgyver Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    North Carolina
    My God, Vesuvio, don't give these casinos any ideas!! :eek:

    Edit that number out if you still can ... :thumbsup:
     
  6. Aug 6, 2005
  7. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Hi Phil,

    If we are talking about withdrawable bonus here, then I would say my maximum would be around the 15x (D+B) for a 100% bonus.

    Because there are many different offers, I think the best way to measure WR (as suggested by someone else here on the forum) is to always put it in terms of how many times the bonus only has to be wagered.
    e.g.
    15x(D+B) @ 100% = 30x the bonus
    15x(D+B) @ 50% = 45x the bonus
    15x(D+B) @ 200% = 22.5x the bonus
    Some casino's only state BxN, e.g. Intercasino is 25x the bonus (only)

    So as I said, up to x30 is as high as I would go - anything beyond that is frankly, a total joke.
     
  8. Aug 6, 2005
  9. Vesuvio

    Vesuvio Dormant account

    Location:
    UK
    Cheers KK, that's of course what I meant to say :thumbsup: (whose bright idea was it to stop posts being editable after a few hours :confused: :D )
     
  10. Aug 6, 2005
  11. Bruce Hamilton

    Bruce Hamilton Dormant account

    Occupation:
    What's a job?
    Location:
    USA
    Personally, I shy away from casinos that exceed 15x, unless they're offering a bonus I can't pass up... Like 200% match or more. Otherwise, I'll just make a larger deposit and not claim the bonus, so I can cash out while I'm still somewhat ahead.
     
  12. Aug 6, 2005
  13. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Sorry Phil, I missed this part of your question.

    By calling it a 'swindle' it sounds like you think players are being somehow cheated if they can't meet the WR with some sort of profit. (ie. with some of the bonus money intact). This seems to be a common view among some posters here, but I think it is quite wrong.
    Excuse me stating the bleeding obvious, but I think it needs to be said here.
    Casino's are not charities, they are in business to make money. They offer bonuses to attract players in the hope of profiting from them. They want people to fail to meet WR with profit, and then go on to lose their entire deposit in an attempt to win it back. The best casino's set their WR at the level they think will be attractive to players whilst still giving the house the overall edge. They will accept that some players will profit from their bonuses, because they know many more will fail. What spoils this industry are the rogue casino's who don't like ANY player profiting from bonus - just look around this section at all the complaints about RTG's and Playtechs: where players have met all the T&C's but STILL get screwed. :(

    So back to the question. No I don't think high WR's represent a 'swindle'. I accept bonuses for what they are: an incentive to play and a head start in my attempt to make a profit. As in my first reply - if I don't like the terms, I simply wont play at that casino.

    PS: Vesuvio - I agree the edit time is far too short! :( Time to start pestering Bryan...?
     
  14. Aug 6, 2005
  15. pstnpstn

    pstnpstn Dormant account

    Occupation:
    computer
    Location:
    Seoul
    totally agree.

    my maximum allowance is bonus*30
    of course blackjack is allowed.
    It is equal to (deposit+bonus)*15

    I do not play there if higher than bonus*30 even though blackjack is allowed.
    So I do not play MG casinos.
     
  16. Aug 6, 2005
  17. Bruce Hamilton

    Bruce Hamilton Dormant account

    Occupation:
    What's a job?
    Location:
    USA
    There are many MG casinos that are under 30x WR, I've found several that are 15x.
     
  18. Aug 6, 2005
  19. pstnpstn

    pstnpstn Dormant account

    Occupation:
    computer
    Location:
    Seoul
    maybe blackjack will not counted.
    if allowed they will increase WR
     
  20. Aug 6, 2005
  21. Bruce Hamilton

    Bruce Hamilton Dormant account

    Occupation:
    What's a job?
    Location:
    USA
    Correct, which makes sense... Your odds of winning with BJ are better than something like slots. A 30x WR with BJ is equivilent to a 15x WR without.
     
  22. Aug 6, 2005
  23. Sodax77

    Sodax77 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Human Being
    Location:
    EU|FI
    Normally i wager much more than required.
    And so far i have no problem ever with any casino (cashouts).

    BUT i need to say one thing, when i read some complaint here.
    If casino write rules, that bonus must wager eg. 15 times,
    then 15 is enough, and they can shut their mouth.
    If player wager eg. 15,01 times, then everything is ok.
    No stupid abuser/hunting/etc reason.

    Casinos like iNetBet, Intercasino, etc respect this system.
    However, basically i wager 30 - (up to) 70 times some bonuses, even they require 20-25. It's entertainment/gambling to me... Not whoring.
     
  24. Aug 6, 2005
  25. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    I'll bet they're 15x(D+B) = 30x B
    (See my earlier post)
     
  26. Aug 6, 2005
  27. dickens1298

    dickens1298 Dormant account

    Location:
    LA, California
    The two recurring bonuses I typically play are at Omni and at Intercasino. Omni's "bonus" occurs once you reach $4000 in play, while Intercasino's WR is 25X. Since my average wager is roughly $15-20 per hand, I can clear WR in fairly short order.

    This month (August) I cleared Intercasino's WR in about 40 minutes, and spent about 15 minutes on Omni reaching a little more than a quarter of its "WR".

    I prefer these casinos for the following reasons:

    (1) Both offer multi-hand play on BJ. This is different from the MG version of "multi-hand", which is the European version.

    (2) Both offer loyalty schemes in addition to the monthly bonus. This can typically add up to about $20 additional per month, minimum.

    (3) Both offer fast payouts via E-cash. I typically fund the casino account through Neteller instacash, then cash out via Citadel.

    (4) Both offer exemplary customer care. Last month, for example, I played poorly at Omni and lost a substantial stake (I began to go tilt and play recklessly). Omni then gave me a $100 bonus. Unasked, unbidden, unusual. At Intercasino, they gave me a one-time credit after I had difficulties processing a transaction.
     
  28. Aug 6, 2005
  29. mgibson99

    mgibson99 Dormant account

    Location:
    Washington DC
    I also had a horrible, horrible run at Omni a few weeks ago. I dropped a note to the VIP Manager, and he put $300 into my account, with no wagering requirements. Granted, that is a drop in the bucket to what I lost, but I thought it was still a reasonable way to treat a loyal player.
     
  30. Aug 6, 2005
  31. CADELL

    CADELL Dormant account

    Occupation:
    SELF EMPLOYED REAL ESTATE APPRAISER
    Location:
    ROSWELL, GA
    I SAW ONE AS HIGH AS 60X PLAYTHROUGH--I KID YOU NOT!!!
     
  32. Aug 6, 2005
  33. philipfromparis

    philipfromparis Dormant account

    Location:
    Paris, France
    Many thanks for all your replies, especially KK and Vesuvio. And you know what, KK, as you once said in that forum, I think I'm going to be a gambling winner as I've decided to stop being a gambling loser :) And this kind of advices can help me going that way !

    Philipfromparis
     
  34. Aug 7, 2005
  35. Bruce Hamilton

    Bruce Hamilton Dormant account

    Occupation:
    What's a job?
    Location:
    USA
    Correct, most of them are indeed 15x(d+b). So far, I haven't found any that have a WR only on the bonus. If you have any links, I'd be interested in checking them out.
     
  36. Aug 7, 2005
  37. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    That's nothing - 32Red's used to be x103.1!!!

    Fortunately they have now seen the light! :cool:
     
  38. Aug 7, 2005
  39. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England

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