Wow at Big Casino :).

I've got a reply from our regulators.

According to it, if a player requested their to be removed and account closed, we would still be required to archive their details for 6 years. They also suggested that we will have to go back to the player and confirm that all
their details have been archived (to prevent repeated registration with the same data) and removed from the active database.

Hope I informed you well.


That's what I thought, SIX years holding player's sensitive documents isn't acceptable on a gambling server or anywhere.

The UK Information & Commissioners Office states within Principle 5 alone:

UK Quote:

"Personal data processed for any purpose or purposes shall not be kept for longer than is necessary for that purpose or those purposes."

You only need to hold information to verify the player and that's it. If you need it again ask for it but don't store it and back it up for SIX years.

So IMO once the documents are approved, then a player should be able to delete said information from your server, or any Web site server.

Honestly I can't imagine if online gambling becomes legal worldwide, including the U.S. and sensitive personal information is being backed up for years through every gambling server, look at the possible consequences.

Maybe this why only a hand full of operators do the upload within player management on their gaming server and the rest rely on unsecure email.

In the OP's case he inadvertently uploaded his doc's when he didn't need too and so his documents are stored on your server for an admitted SIX years. The screen shot I viewed in another thread says "Upload your documents" you're asking for data that might not be required.

Viktar Quote:

"They also suggested that we will have to go back to the player and confirm that all
their details have been archived (to prevent repeated registration with the same data) and removed from the active database."

I have no clue what this means, how would a player know if their information has been archived?

I think Big Casino and Viaden are on the up and up from what I've seen to date, that ratiocination isn't in play but doc. procedures are lame, welcome to the group among others.
 
Mark, I think you didn't understand me right.

In case of account closure, all copies of documents will be deleted as per player's request, and only their first/last name and address will be stored in our database to prevent repeated registration.

Also there is a difference between hard copies (i.e. paper copeis) and electronic data.

So IMO once the documents are approved, then a player should be able to delete said information from your server, or any Web site server.

Our regulators think different.

I also would suggest you to read these documents:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
 
Yep, they recently came out of the baptism by fire section :).

SlotMonster - best get Bryan to change your title to 'Accredited Casino Representative' - Didn't check that you guys made it to the Accredited section, but well done :thumbsup:

Nate
 
Mark, I think you didn't understand me right.

In case of account closure, all copies of documents will be deleted as per player's request, and only their first/last name and address will be stored in our database to prevent repeated registration.

Also there is a difference between hard copies (i.e. paper copeis) and electronic data.



Our regulators think different.

I also would suggest you to read these documents:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


And again how does a player delete their data?

Sorry Viktar but I don't read offshore regulations anymore as most don't support player complaints.

Complaints should be addressed by player concerns, the offshore regulators have proven to be detached from player complaints.

I know for a fact that personal information uploaded on your website, gaming server will be held for SIX years, please don't try the song and dance with me as I'll prove you wrong.

Your defense might make depositing members take warning to your stance, not cool.
 
Please don't try the song and dance with me as I'll prove you wrong.

I find your words pretty offensive. If you don't respect me as a Casino Representative, please respect me as forum member.

I'll give up arguing with you, if you don't mind, because it leads us to nowhere.
 
And again how does a player delete their data?

Sorry Viktar but I don't read offshore regulations anymore as most don't support player complaints.

Complaints should be addressed by player concerns, the offshore regulators have proven to be detached from player complaints.

I know for a fact that personal information uploaded on your website, gaming server will be held for SIX years, please don't try the song and dance with me as I'll prove you wrong.

Your defense might make depositing members take warning to your stance, not cool.

Viktar politely referred you to the data rules that apply to THEM under THEIR regulator to explain his position, and you came back with "I don't read offshore stuff" and proceeded to get personal......instead of just reading it and trying to understand where he is coming from.

You owe him an apology IMO.
 
I find your words pretty offensive. If you don't respect me as a Casino Representative, please respect me as forum member.

I'll give up arguing with you, if you don't mind, because it leads us to nowhere.


I'm not arguing merely giving some constructive forewarn.

I understand that the information during registration is stored and backed up for six years, all OC's do this. But the fact that when additional sensitive doc's are required, they too are backed up and stored for six years.

My point being if I were to send BC a copy of my passport for an additional ID check I would expect it to be viewed, compared to my "Stored" registration information and then dealt with accordantly.

I shouldn't have to close my account to destroy any additional sensitive information willingly provided to prove identify and get paid as I wouldn't expect it to be saved any longer than it takes to clear this process. I don't agree with the process of storing and backing up additional requested documents for long periods of time on a gaming server. JMO.

My view is pretty straight forward, not offensive. By telling me to go and read the Isle Of Man regulations was a song and dance IMO, which is defined as an elaborate way to explain or justify. Not sure why that would call for an apology on my behalf.

Furthermore I haven't disrespected you, or argued with you. You have clarified that you back up and hold player documents including passports etc.. for six years or more and in order to delete said information a player will need to close their account for all information to be abolished.

Didn't mean to rattle anyone's feathers. :)
 
I'm not arguing merely giving some constructive forewarn.

I understand that the information during registration is stored and backed up for six years, all OC's do this. But the fact that when additional sensitive doc's are required, they too are backed up and stored for six years.

My point being if I were to send BC a copy of my passport for an additional ID check I would expect it to be viewed, compared to my "Stored" registration information and then dealt with accordantly.

I shouldn't have to close my account to destroy any additional sensitive information willingly provided to prove identify and get paid as I wouldn't expect it to be saved any longer than it takes to clear this process. I don't agree with the process of storing and backing up additional requested documents for long periods of time on a gaming server. JMO.

My view is pretty straight forward, not offensive. By telling me to go and read the Isle Of Man regulations was a song and dance IMO, which is defined as an elaborate way to explain or justify. Not sure why that would call for an apology on my behalf.

Furthermore I haven't disrespected you, or argued with you. You have clarified that you back up and hold player documents including passports etc.. for six years or more and in order to delete said information a player will need to close their account for all information to be abolished.

Didn't mean to rattle anyone's feathers. :)

please don't try the song and dance with me as I'll prove you wrong.

Your defense might make depositing members take warning to your stance, not cool.

IMO this was unnecessarily confrontational and was (IMO) inferring thay Viktar was somehow "leading everyone up the garden path" and you then went on to "warn depositing players" about Big Casino (not your words but the obvious inference). He provided a link to the regulations that THEY are bound by. If you refuse to read it then fine.....but by doing so you are pretty much saying "well my opinion is right and I'm not interested in discovering any facts about the issue" which is pretty childish (IMO)

You were disrespectful. You were arguing. The latter is fine, the former is not.

The fact that you neither recognized this nor apologized shows how members should maybe "take warning to YOUR stance". I have no doubt that you spruik your product, often in a cloaked fashion, wherever possible and members should be aware that you are (IMO) using Bryan's site to further your own commercial interests and should give weight to your opinions accordingly.

An interesting poll would be to ask how many members have had their identity stolen via submission of documents to online casinos by fax or email. It's a process that, on the whole, works very well and really is quite easy for 99.9% of players and has been so for over a decade. The doom and gloom you paint about the horrible risks of players sending ID to casinos, in my experience at CM for 11 years at least, just doesn't exist in reality. I'm certain, however, that it is an excellent selling point....much like the WMD's in Iraq. I wouldn't feel any safer giving all my info to you than I do giving it to a casino. You have just as much to gain by selling my info to third parties as they do.
 
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IMO this was unnecessarily confrontational and was (IMO) inferring thay Viktar was somehow "leading everyone up the garden path" you are pretty much saying "well my opinion is right and I'm not interested in discovering any facts about the issue" which is pretty childish (IMO)

You were disrespectful. You were arguing.

using Bryan's site to further your own commercial interests and should give weight to your opinions accordingly.

An interesting poll would be to ask how many members have had their identity stolen via submission of documents to online casinos by fax or email.

I said I don't read offshore regulations anymore, not that I hadn't already read those. I mean how else would I know that BC must hold data for five plus years?

"Your defense might make depositing players take warning" is merely suggesting that he might want to take a serious look at the new upload implementation, which is not required by his regulator. Therefore adding a higher risk to his players by having it.

I was debating the issue with Viktar, is a long way from arguing as you've suggested. And there has been many times over the years where OC's have been hacked and personal data stolen, although most kept limited data on the server, nothing sensitive like passport copies etc..

I think one of the latest hacks, it took the site a few years before they admitted the problem. :eek:

You can try and bait me if you'd like Nifty but this fish isn't biting at your personal comments. If you feel that way its fine with me as it's your opinion, everyone entitled to that. :p
 
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Anyone's resolution for 2012 is peace in the forum?:D

I actually think PV has a valid point though I suppose he should have put it across much nicer.If I were Viktar I would feel irritated as well.

Archiving players' personal data and retaining it for 6 years isnt acceptable unless consent is given by the player. Heck, I just submitted a complaint to the Government and they had to seek my consent before releasing the details to the department I am complaining of. That's how data privacy should be upheld.
 
Just few words.

1) We are regulated by the Isle of Man Gambling Supervision Commission.
2) We must follow their rules.
3) We follow their rules.
4) We will continue following their rules.

I hope now everything is clear.

If you have any concerns/suggestions/objections - please, contact our regulators.

Thank you!
 
Viktar,

I understand you have to abide by the rules of the Commission. Hoever, if there are quite a number of players that are getting concerned would it not be right for the casinoto relay the concerns to the Commission together with the casino's stance. On the face of it , I wouldnt, as a player, want my personal details to be held by someone for 6 years. Even those who are bankrupt can have their records deleted after 4 years.
 
Got it, need to contact the Isle Of Man for concerns, suggestions, or objections. :rolleyes:

I have to agree with Nifty on this - Your attitude towards Slotmonster has not been friendly in any way. Your last statement is reflective of this. I wanted to mention it earlier, but you seem to be on about something that the vast majority of the membership haven't been too concerned with.

The only logical reason I see with your concern is that YOU run a business with regards to the subject at discussion. I am not trying to be nasty to you, but your motives IMPO are questionable.

Nate
 
.


I took a quick look at Isle of Man`s code for money laundering. Just to confirm what SlotMonster has told us. They need to store data for 6 years and these data must be sufficient to identify the source and recipient of payments (which will include personal information).



12. Records of transactions

The licence holder shall establish and maintain a record of all transactions carried out by or on behalf of participants or business participants (for example, records sufficient to identify the source and recipient of payments from which investigating authorities will be able to compile an audit trail for suspected money laundering or terrorist financing) and such other records as are sufficient to demonstrate that the Money Laundering and Terrorist Financing Requirements have been complied with.

13. Retention of records

(1) A licence holder shall keep the records required by paragraph 12 for at least 6 years from the date when —

(a) the person concerned formally ceases to be participant or business participant; or

(b) if sub-paragraph (1) (a) does not apply, when the last transaction was carried out by the former participant or business participant

----------

(Note: "participant” means any person (other than a business participant) participating as a player in online gambling other than as a licence holder;
 
.


I took a quick look at Isle of Man`s code for money laundering. Just to confirm what SlotMonster has told us. They need to store data for 6 years and these data must be sufficient to identify the source and recipient of payments (which will include personal information).



12. Records of transactions

The licence holder shall establish and maintain a record of all transactions carried out by or on behalf of participants or business participants (for example, records sufficient to identify the source and recipient of payments from which investigating authorities will be able to compile an audit trail for suspected money laundering or terrorist financing) and such other records as are sufficient to demonstrate that the Money Laundering and Terrorist Financing Requirements have been complied with.

13. Retention of records

(1) A licence holder shall keep the records required by paragraph 12 for at least 6 years from the date when —

(a) the person concerned formally ceases to be participant or business participant; or

(b) if sub-paragraph (1) (a) does not apply, when the last transaction was carried out by the former participant or business participant

----------

(Note: "participant” means any person (other than a business participant) participating as a player in online gambling other than as a licence holder;

The only details they discuss is registration information, name address phone etc..

If you can show me details about passports etc., please do so. :thumbsup:
 
IMO it's a shame that recent posts have tended to distract members from what started out as a positive thread giving credit where credit appears due to an operator who seems to be trying hard - and clearly enjoying some success - in serving players in a way we would all want to see more widely applied in the industry.

Encouragement is important, so I'll return to topic by saying to Viktar and his Big Casino: "keep up the good work."
 
You honestly have no merit to diss me Nate. :what:

My intention was never to diss you P.V. My intentions are always to try and keep the peace. I was merely highlighting how your post came across - from a Neutral stance.

In any event, I do apologise if you feel that I have dissed you.

Nate
 
IMO it's a shame that recent posts have tended to distract members from what started out as a positive thread giving credit where credit appears due to an operator who seems to be trying hard - and clearly enjoying some success - in serving players in a way we would all want to see more widely applied in the industry.

Encouragement is important, so I'll return to topic by saying to Viktar and his Big Casino: "keep up the good work."

Aye, thanks for that, if those people with gripes about this data thing have such a beef about it why not start a new thread regarding this?.
 

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