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Wouldn't the easiest way to kill of the rogues be to stop the flow of money?

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by takethemoney, Apr 30, 2010.

    Apr 30, 2010
  1. takethemoney

    takethemoney Banned User - Chargebacks at Slotastic

    Location:
    Washington
    After dinner, after dessert, I had some thoughts pinging around in my head. It's bad enough that the software provider, ie., RTG won't deactivate a rogue casino operator. This leaves me to wonder how they manage to stay plugged in to most means of funding? I logged into my old Virtual account and noticed a few things. They do not have any network jackpots, which doesn't surprise me, but what really surprised me is that they are able to still accept AMEX, VISA, Mastercard, web wallets, phone pay, click to pay, etc.

    It seems that until they are completely cut off, they will be able to continue extracting money from the unsuspecting. As long as there are casino portals that are willing to promote them, there will always be the unsuspecting. Some of the bonuses look too good to pass up for people who don't know any better. Sigh...I guess you can't idot proof the world. Until everyone in the industry has decided they have had enough of rogues, there will be plenty. They will continue to hide behind countries who will do little, if anything to punish them. :mad:
     
  2. Apr 30, 2010
  3. osulle

    osulle Ueber Meister CAG mm4 mm1

    Occupation:
    life
    Location:
    Northern hemisphere
    I think that software platforms should be a little bit more responsible. The fact that RTG doesn't seem to give a flying f?*k who uses their software as long as they get paid. That makes the software just as rogue as the casinos.

    I think RTG should pull the license of the rogue casinos. That would solve the problem for newbies out their getting ripped off by these clip joints but nooooooooo RTG doesn't do anything:mad: A little bit of accountablity from the software provider should not be an impossible dream.

    All I gotta say it is time for some serious online regulation but for those of us in the US that is a long way if it ever happens at all. It is up to us the players to exercise due diligence where casinos are concerned. The rule of thumb I live by since I got stung by the hated virtual group (when I was a newbie) is that if something looks to good to be true then it damn well is and move on to the next casino.

    Regards
     
    2 people like this.
  4. Apr 30, 2010
  5. takethemoney

    takethemoney Banned User - Chargebacks at Slotastic

    Location:
    Washington
    Yeah, one of the very first things I would look for today are bonuses that are over 150%, with few exceptions. Actually, I used to play with 200% almost every weekend with Cherry Red.(not rogue) Playthru was only 20 x, which I feel is decent. I just got an email from Mighty slots a few weeks back for 600%, dep $100-$500. I looked at the terms and it's 50x rollover....but, this one is a no go anyway, because it's rogue. Funny enough, though, I noticed another deal where you deposit $20 and get $980! 120 x playthru / max cashout $300. Sorry, but that is imfuckingpossible, and even IF, you won't get paid.
     
  6. Apr 30, 2010
  7. love2winalot

    love2winalot Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Roulette Player
    Location:
    Philippines/Visiting Las vegas
    Hiya: Do a google search, and you will find the information you are asking for. If everyone sacraficed the use of one service provider, the bad casinos would be bankrupt........
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Apr 30, 2010
  9. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    But it's not really fair IMO to penalise the casinos that are doing things honestly and right (iNet, CWC etc). I'd like to think they are also putting pressure on RTG but with the amount of money the rogues bring in, probably the only way to make RTG realise that they are basically facilitating dodgy ops is for the reputable operators to show RTG the door. And until there are good viable options for the USA that is probably not going to happen.

    But the day where these options are available will come eventually and if any software provider entering the USA had any common sense, they would approach the best RTG operations and offer them good deals. Because let's face it, they are the glue that hold RTG together.
     
    4 people like this.
  10. Apr 30, 2010
  11. Cant_Get_Right

    Cant_Get_Right Banned User

    Occupation:
    Work For Home
    Location:
    Atlanta
    I respectfully disagree. If RTG won't shut down these rogues. Then it's the players responsibility to do it. That means boycotting the product. If Inetbet and CWC would feel the effect. Then maybe they will join in the fight and force RTG to get regulate their clients. One spoil apple does in fact spoils a dozen.
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Apr 30, 2010
  13. Rusty

    Rusty Banned User - repetitive flaming

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    You are both right aren't you?
    On the one hand it is not fair that decent Casinos get tainted with the same brush as the rogues for using the same software but on the other hand every Casino has the choice of software they use

    Inet and any other so called "honest" Casino must have been fully aware that the RTG platform supplied rogue Casinos that ripped players off, happily standing idly by and raking in the cash, when they made their choice of provider. How honest is that by the way?

    Further they have the choice to switch provider at any time and prove their integrity/honesty but fail to do so.
    The same is true of Casinos using other dodgy providers, they are all complicit in allowing the rogues to operate and people to be ripped off.

    What about players?
    Yes we have a responsibility to.
    In the same way Casinos can choose their provider so can the player and I appreciate the contradiction of players moaning about software yet still playing it. Truth be known if all players simply refused to use the product it would solve the problem in the same way as Casinos doing likewise but this is a practical impossibility.

    What about the affiliates?
    They certainly have a responsibility to protect their clients from rogue Casinos.
    Unfortunately for every rogue Casino there are a hundred rogue affiliates.
    Again affiliates can choose which Casinos/software they promote and any that promote known rogues or ignore issues are really the lowest of the low because they make money off the back of this thievery. It's like mugging an old lady but asking your accomplice to hit her with the cosh because you don't have the stomach for it then gleefully going through her purse as she lies on the floor.
    Players stay loyal to an affiliate you can trust, many of which exist here, rather than seeking out the best bonus offers, that is your responsibility again.


    So let's be clear.
    The onus is on the providers to ensure their product is fair and licensed only to Casinos which adhere to their standards of fairness.
    It is then for Casinos to choose the software they feel best reflects on their brand.
    Then the affiliates need to promote these brands and make players aware of the issues surrounding other brands.
    Finally the players need to be more responsible when choosing which casino to donate their cash to.

    None of that is going to happen without proper regulation though is it?
    Certainly the industry has proved it is incapable of regulating itself.
     
    3 people like this.
  14. Apr 30, 2010
  15. spike38

    spike38 Experienced Member MM

    Occupation:
    x
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    ..........

    I've been doing my part for months and don't miss these clip joints one bit. If I've deposited $100 over the last four months total I'd be surprised. Instead I spend more time in the garden, reading, and enjoying my grandkids which is way more rewarding in the end.
    Also when needing a gambling fix it has been all horse racing for me which has also been way more rewarding. As a matter of fact I believe You must register/login in order to see the link. is running a special right now for new accounts, wager $100 in total bets and they give you $100 extra. The average person can wager $100 off a $50 deposit easy just making show bets. Plus the Derby is tomorrow. Serious good deal. Cheers !!
     
  16. Apr 30, 2010
  17. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    It predates me so I can't be sure, but iNetBet made their choice in 1998 - not sure whether the Rogues were branded as rogues back then.

    If they want to continue taking US, they only really have two choices right now. It's totally unreasonable IMO to expect a business to a) ditch a vast proportion of it's existing client base and b) significantly increase it's overheads at the same time just to try and shoot down another business. When there are sensible options, then you might find they do just this.


    Totally agree. Learned today that there is a prominent affiliate that should know better promoting a known rogue group which pisses me off. They have been notified btw :cool:


    No. That's how it *should* be. Not how it is unfortunately. Although some do.

    Agreed. Although IMO it was making very good headway until the UIGEA came along, forced out most of the good operators and left the door open for the rogues again.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Apr 30, 2010
  19. Rusty

    Rusty Banned User - repetitive flaming

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    So it seems we have only one area of disagreement on this which is essentially whether a Casino should put profit before ethics?

    After all the fact is there are viable alternatives so the only argument is whether rogue Casinos existed and the software provider was seen to be complicit before the Casino brand we are considering chose its provider, if they did it is fair to point out such brands are also ethically challenged.

    If they chose the software before known issues then I may have more empathy but would still argue with your supposition;

    "It's totally unreasonable IMO to expect a business to a) ditch a vast proportion of it's existing client base and b) significantly increase it's overheads at the same time just to try and shoot down another business."

    Why would they need to ditch a vast proportion of their current client base? Ah yes because of chasing the mighty Dollar where many software companies and Casinos have pulled out - ethics?

    Regardless, what you are saying in effect is that a Casino should always put profit before ethics because no matter how many dirty tricks or how much dirty money a software company makes the $ for the Casino is the bottom line.
    I would suggest that is exactly the problem and why rogue Casinos exist.

    You then ask why should they should switch to just shoot down another business and I would answer they shouldn't.
    They should just do the right thing and everything else falls into place.

    "All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing"

    Let me ask you this.
    If in your business you were to discover your supplier is also associating with known crooks and profiting from this association would you consider it ok to ignore this just because you are making a nice buck?
    Is that not exactly what the rogue affiliates are doing?

    If that is ok or just realistically what is likely to happen then fine but lets not pat ourselves on the back and pretend we are honest and ethical.
    I am no better than anyone else but let's at least tell it how it is.
     
    2 people like this.
  20. Apr 30, 2010
  21. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    So you're saying that any casino who takes US players is ethically wrong? Why?


    Ok two things here. Firstly by "known crooks" we are talking about people who haven't been charged with anything criminal. We may regard them as crooks - but that's an important distinction.

    Secondly and with the above in mind: if I had gone into the business unaware that they were rogue, I had no alternative supplier available and I was responsible for employees then yes, I would continue. I am sure I would be looking for an opportunity to extracate myself from that situation though.

    Affiliates have a choice. There is no excuse for not doing your research. Casinos to a lesser extent, but the market is largely closed to alternatives right now.
     
  22. May 1, 2010
  23. Rusty

    Rusty Banned User - repetitive flaming

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    I don't know how to separate a quote and remark after all this time.:oops:
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. May 1, 2010
  25. ksech

    ksech Dormant account

    Occupation:
    yes
    Location:
    Here
    As a player from the US, when I first started playing online in/around 1998 I first googled online casinos. It was great because I had my choice of MG casinos I could play at. After a few months of playing them I did another search and found (what I thought then) some great RTG casinos. They offered lots of different bonuses (which the MG casinos did not). As a new, naive player I was lured into depositing at these "rogue" casinos.

    With the influx of new players every day, if they do a simple google search, these rogue casinos will still operate. So, you would have to some way go after the search engines too.

    I agree, as a whole, the players have the "power" to make or break a casino. BUT, it will never happen as you can't control the actions of people who do not know or understand. And as a player, I never considered until a few years ago, the affiliates job as mediators between a player and a casino. For every good, conscientious affiliate there are probably 3 bad ones.

    The casinos are in business to make money, so like any business, the good casinos need to find ways to lure players away from the bad ones. I don't feel, because they chose a software with so many rotten apples, that a casino should be ostracized for that. They need to figure out a solution which will enable them to continue servicing the players, but in the meantime thwart the bad eggs.

    And, IMO, it's not just RTG. MG has its problems and so does Rival ( I wouldn't know about playtech or topgame or some of the others). As long as these "rogue" casinos continue to lure inexperienced players with "great" bonus deals, they will continue to thrive. Is there really any solution to all of this?
     
    1 person likes this.
  26. May 4, 2010
  27. felicie

    felicie Ueber Meister PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    somewhere else
    Playing bonus free could certainly stop some of the absolute crap they serve us at Rtgs and even more so at Rivals imo. Microgaming casinos don't play all the bonus games. I think they don't need to - they have a good client base from doing good business without all the bs 'frills'.
    Newbies are going to learn the easy way or the hard way depending on what they are actually looking for out of gambling. A lot of affiliates are merely giving the customer what they want. I know players that started same time I did and they're still just searching for free chips with very little intention of depositing. Or maybe once in a blue moon throw a minimum deposit ala huge bonus crap included and then bitch like hell about it later. I just can't see blaming the affiliates for giving people what they want. And on top of that, it's those kind of players that help turn these once ethical casinos into bonus overkill ripoffs - it's a vicious circle but it is up to the player to decide where they want to go with it all. not the affiliates. The thought has never even entered my mind to go back where I clicked on the banner (like I could remember anyway LOL) They ain't my momma! I didn't pay them (affiliates) for any service guaranteeing me ethical safe play. Geez go back to playing Bingo at your local church if you want guarantees of safe play.
    There are plenty of decent places to play even for Americans but if they need affiliate 'momma's' they shouldn't be playing anyway.

    ps. I have based all this gibberish on my own personal experiences for the last 4 or 5 years so please try to refrain from trashing them even if you don't find it all at Snopes. :rolleyes:
     
  28. May 4, 2010
  29. bernynhel

    bernynhel Dormant account PABnononaccred PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    Loafer
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Of course if Online Gaming Forum operators were to add Blacklisted Affiliate lists in addition to just Rogue or Blacklisted Casinos this might help alert new players to caution through Google. There's a discussion in a thread over at Online Casino Review: Rogue Affiliates - What is a rogue affiliate and should they be publicly named and shamed? with some interesting thoughts on the topic.

    I'd like to think there's a tooth fairy. They're guilty by association. We're there any "nice" Nazis? Who gives a f! My point: even if there were, who gives a F! They were Nazis, fer crissake!

    I'll take the latter hand: If there is ANY WAY TO ORGANIZE A BOYCOTT AGAINST ALL RTG CASINOS TIL THE ROGUES ARE PUT OUT, that's what it will take. I won't play at an RTG casino outta principle but what I'm depriving them of wouldn't even make 'em sneeze if they stuffed their noses with it.

    As far as fairness goes? F fair! It's a moot point, IMO. You have all these rogue RTG sites and they are being passively supported, at minimum, by every other RTG operator, good and bad, just by association.

    Aye! And there is the m'th'rf'k'n' rub! - Bill Shakespeare (sorta)
     
    1 person likes this.

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