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WorldWideVegas complaint

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by schankwart, May 16, 2006.

    May 16, 2006
  1. schankwart

    schankwart Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.ca

    Occupation:
    Secret Agent
    Location:
    Colony Gamma
    During my almost seven years of online gambling this is the most disgusting and upsetting email I have ever received from any of the nasty Casinos...!

    Andrew, the manager of WorldWideVegas, has yet to honor my several-month-old withdrawal, now he is also threatening me, saying he will "come for me" if I continue to attempt to get my own money from them!

    My non-payment issue is referring to You must register/login in order to see the link. (at the WOL forum... mods, I hope this crosslink is okay?) where all information about this case is described.

    I have involved a couple mediators (affiliates) into this issue already, both of which have discontinued their advertisement for WorldWideVegas. Unfortunately they were not able to get me paid. WWV claims that the mediators would have "shot me down", which is simply not true. -The mediators just did not get to pay me.....

    The threat is unsettling and this Casino needs to put out of business ASAP!!! The email below is what I am referring to... Andrew sent it to me after I replied on a survey that he sent me via email:

    "NO you are not a VIP with us. We just contracted to have a survey done and an old list was used. You know every single place you have tried to pull your BS story with has shot you down. You have no outstanding issue with us and if I continue to be harassed by you I am at the point where we are ready to turn this over to our legal team to go after you for attempted fraud, blackmail and slander. So keep trying to pull this crap and lets see what happens when I decide to come after you."

    Now, I don’t have a particular wish for a visit from little-gangster Andrew, but if he thinks I will stop chasing my own money, he is dead wrong. Therefore I intend to keep this thread updated until I am paid my Grand by them or… whatever.
     
  2. May 17, 2006
  3. suzecat

    suzecat Dormant account CAG MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    California
    Shankey, I understand your frustration and I do not interpret Andrew's comments as rising to the level of physical threats against you. IMHO he is telling you he is about to turn this matter over to his attorneys. This thread is a good argument FOR regulation.
     
  4. May 17, 2006
  5. suzecat

    suzecat Dormant account CAG MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    California
    planets must be shorting out today..........
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2006
  6. May 17, 2006
  7. mitch

    mitch Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Secret
    Location:
    UK
    Schankwart

    I do not intend to insult you, but why do casinos seem to pick on you?

    I have been an online player for a long time and have never been denied a cashout. I have been locked out after big wins by the usual suspects but only after being paid.

    You seem to be all over the web with casinos denying you cashouts.

    Perhaps you need to consider your judgement about which casinos are worthy of your business!

    You surely can't have been divorced 10 times as well, considering your gambling record you must be on track to get to your Diamond Anniversery at least. ( Lucky in love etc! )

    Mitch
     
    2 people like this.
  8. May 17, 2006
  9. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount.

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    No disrespect either, but I see that comment as "See what happens when you're sued".

    And as the above post states, you do seem to pick the worst casinos. It's great that your luck at the games are better than the casino choices :D
     
  10. May 17, 2006
  11. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    Bonus abusing/whoring will always create issues.

    It wouldnt surprise me if the number of casinos who have had issues with Schankwart has reached saturation point..........I might have to open one just to keep things interesting.

    :rolleyes:

    Ho Hum.
     
  12. May 17, 2006
  13. schankwart

    schankwart Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.ca

    Occupation:
    Secret Agent
    Location:
    Colony Gamma
    Yes, I will stay on them for sure!
    This issue has been never ending and the Casino keeps refusing to put up straight answers. I have summarized the dispute once more:


    WorldWideVegas is trying to void my winnings because I played Roulette in a promotion. Roulette indeed did not contribute to the wagering requirements, however, it nowhere states that it was not allowed to play this game at all.
    The terms for the promotion were as follows:

    "Play any game you like except Black Jack and if for any reason you are not a winner email us at This email is not visible to you. and we will add an additional 50% CASH BACK BONUS up to $500 FREE to your account so you can keep on playing."

    After I lost my deposit I received their 50% cashback bonus....:

    "If a Player receives a bonus greater than 40% they must wager the deposit plus associated bonus amount THIRTY (30) times (craps and roulette wagers are not included) to qualify for the bonus."

    I then played Roulette again. This game was allowed to be played as per the term above, but did not contribute to the wagering requirement. I played my money back up, requested my withdrawal and forfeited my 50% cashback bonus as per the following term:

    "Any withdrawal requests made before the bonus rules have been satisfied will result in a forfeit of the bonus amount."

    Now they are claiming that it would not have been allowed to play Roulette at all, closed my account and stole all my money.


    I have made my $1000 deposit via Neteller. I have also saved screenshots of all terms. As a matter of fact WorldWideVegas has even already recognized how they screwed up and brought up another excuse afterwards, that I "received a different bonus with different terms".



    As far as the Roulette play goes, I played Roulette both, before and after I received the bonus.
    Here are their terms regarding this:

    "Play any game you like except Black Jack and if for any reason you are not a winner email us at This email is not visible to you. and we will add an additional 50% CASH BACK BONUS up to $500 FREE to your account so you can keep on playing."

    After I lost my deposit I received their 50% cashback bonus:

    "If a Player receives a bonus greater than 40% they must wager the deposit plus associated bonus amount THIRTY (30) times (craps and roulette wagers are not included) to qualify for the bonus."


    I then played Roulette again. This game was allowed to be played as per the term above, but did not contribute to the wagering requirement. I played my money back up, requested my withdrawal and forfeited my 50% cashback bonus as per the following term:

    "Any withdrawal requests made before the bonus rules have been satisfied will result in a forfeit of the bonus amount."

    In their promotional terms it clearly states to play "any game but Blackjack" in order to receive (or "qualify" for) the bonus.


    Anyways... WorldWideVegas will not be getting anywhere with this but down. Many have already recognized this but did not get to do anything about it. I have played fair and square but they are refusing to correct themselves and try to scare me off with nasty and threatening words.




    @ Mitch... I simply DO play a lot online at numerous Online Casinos and have had my number of disputes in the past. In this case with WWV I was totally satisfied with their service at the time I played there.
    There is always going to be people who claim Casino A is evil and others who praise it. At the time I played at WWV their reputation was still quite fine.
    I also indeed enjoy bonuses and do not see what is wrong with that?

    And Nifty.... I thought you had realized by now that your continuos personal attacks are just making a fool of yourself?


    As soon as WWV is going to provide me with the term they are basing their non-payment on, I will update all threads about it and the money will be theirs. This however is never going to happen as they are basing their action on no term at all...

    I am also still expecting an apology from them.


    t.b.c.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2006
  14. May 18, 2006
  15. phynqster

    phynqster Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    los angeles, ca
    Shank,
    Please clear up something for me as I read your complaint. I took it as you lost your complete deposit, than asked for your cash back bonus after the deposit was lost. You than started winning off the cash back bonus, and cashed out, but claimed you did not have to fulfill the requirements of the cash back bonus because you cashed out early. Please explain if this is the scenerio? If so I do think you were wrong, if it was something different please give more details
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. May 18, 2006
  17. Dirk Diggler

    Dirk Diggler Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Company Secretary
    Location:
    UK
    From my reading of the situation schankwart fully complied with the terms and should have been paid.

    Yes he recieved a cashback bonus after losing his deposit. Yes he wagered this on games that did not count towards the wagering requirements (BUT were not excluded from being played). Yes he cashed out before meeting the wagering requirements and therefore forfeited the bonus under the terms. However all of this was allowed under the terms of the offer as far as I can see.

    All this boils down to is the same thing that many playtech's have tried to pull recently - that is stealing winnings because a player has played on a game that does not count towards wagering, although not excluded altogether.

    P.S Just because Schankwart has had more than his fair share of problems it shouldn't mean that casinos can just steal his winnings when they don't like the way he has played. It's very easy to think 'here we go again' without looking at the facts, but if the facts equal unfair treatment from the casino then it shouldn't matter who the hell is having the problem.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. May 18, 2006
  19. The Watchdog

    The Watchdog Dormant account

    Occupation:
    sports, poker, casinos
    Location:
    Costa Rica
    mmmmm

     
  20. May 18, 2006
  21. schankwart

    schankwart Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.ca

    Occupation:
    Secret Agent
    Location:
    Colony Gamma

    Yup, I have indeed won off my cashback bonus and cashed out before having finished my wagering requirements but did not break any term thereby. As per me post above, this is what it states in their terms about this scenario:
    "Any withdrawal requests made before the bonus rules have been satisfied will result in a forfeit of the bonus amount."
    As far as my wagering on Roulette goes, the game simply would not have contributed to the wagering requirements but was fine to be played, as DDiggler points out in his post.

    WWV is well aware that I did not disobey -any- of their rules, but tried to not pay me, hoping I would duck down. Instead of having paid me and THEN lock my account they decided to simply not pay me and do the lock.

    I am positive that anyone who reads my complaint will agree that I have not broken anything. If for some reason you are not convinced feel free to ask and I will try to make it understandable for you.

    Fact is, I am well appreciated "VIP" player at a ton of (reputable) Online Casinos as well, which shows that the goodies appreciate my legit business with them. I do play sharp but I do not break terms. Anyone who has been around for the last few years and read my positive and negative reports about the Casino-joints out there, should be able to agree on that.

    WWV, you will not get out of this before you tell me either what term I have broken or PAY!!
     
  22. May 18, 2006
  23. casino employee

    casino employee Dormant account

    Location:
    not available
    If I've understood the situation in the thread correctly, I think the problem casinos have - and rightly (I think) - is that if a game is excluded from bonus wagering, then the winnings accrued from those games should also be voided. The reason is: you're playing with a bonus; the bonus has certain restrictions; if you go and play - and win - on a "restricted" game, you're profiting at the casino's expense with a bonus that was not supposed to have been played there in the first place.

    By switching then to "approved" games to fulfill the wagering requirements, you're simply fulfilling wagers using an inflated balance bulked up from wins that were obtained with a bonus on restricted games. In the eyes of many online casinos that's a disadvantage to them.

    Not all casinos will void your winnings, but I do understand those that would.
     
  24. May 18, 2006
  25. Dirk Diggler

    Dirk Diggler Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Company Secretary
    Location:
    UK
    I'm sorry but that's nonsense. If the terms don't expressley forbid playing on the games that don't count towards the wagering requirements then the player has done nothing wrong.

    The casinos can write whatever T&Cs they like and can easily put in a term excluding play on whatever games they wish. It's their repsonsibilty to make sure they have covered eveything they don't want the player to do, if they haven't then it's their own fault.

    Any casinos that steals winnings because of this reason when they haven't forbid it is rogue - simple as that.
     
    2 people like this.
  26. May 18, 2006
  27. casino employee

    casino employee Dormant account

    Location:
    not available
    I don't disagree that casinos should be more explicit in their T&C's but by the same token, a player who goes and plays on a restricted game with a bonus is also taking a risk by not contacting the casino first to find out if there will be a problem.

    It's like taking the risk quietly in order to play dumb now and then to make a scene later that the player "didn't know"... in many cases it's deliberate ignorance.
     
  28. May 18, 2006
  29. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount.

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania

    The player was told explicitly via the T&C that they could PLAY the games, but any wagers wouldn't count towards the WR.

    How's that "playing dumb" and claiming ignorance when the casino wants to change the terms after the fact?
     
  30. May 18, 2006
  31. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    BS

    Utter BS - Roulette has a high(ish) house edge, and it is more likely that the player will lose some of the bonus rather than win an "inflated amount". An individual player might win this way, but the adoption of this strategy by the general player pool will work in the favour of the house. The only exception would be where a restricted game had a small player edge, and was there for loyal players to play with their own money.
    Terms need to mean what they say, and say what they mean. Saying "wagering will not contribute to meeting WR", means something different from "play on these games is not permitted till the WR for the bonus has been completed".

    The casino wrote overly complicated rules, got it slightly wrong, and got turned over by a sharp player. If the rules were simpler, and said what they meant, this would not happen. They should pay and then lock, this is the correct procedure for dealing with an over clever player who has not actually breached the T & C. The whole point of accepting a bonus is that a player feels it improves their chances of winning. This case is worse, as this was a bonus only given if the player lost all of their own money first, and was already down twice the amount of the bonus. Since when does a player lose their entire deposit to get a 50% cashback do this as part of bonus hunting. This offer gives them a chance to win back some of their losses, not mechanically extract a bonus by playing low variance and low house edge games.
     
  32. May 18, 2006
  33. phynqster

    phynqster Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    los angeles, ca
    After reading this again, I do not think the problem is the excluded games, I think it is about the bonus requriments of the cash back bonus. The money won here was from the casinos money Shank put up no money on this win.9He had all ready lost it). So he builds a balance with the casinos bonus money , than cashes out before fullfilling the terms of the bonus, than says because he cashed out early, he does not have to adhere to the rules. What is the difference here if a casino says you need to make 30x playthrough on the bonus, and you hit big before making playthrough, so you cash out and say go ahead and remove the bonus?. Once you accept bonus money you have to follow the rules.
     
  34. May 18, 2006
  35. The Watchdog

    The Watchdog Dormant account

    Occupation:
    sports, poker, casinos
    Location:
    Costa Rica
    Wrong

    If you play a bonus, make money out of it and you haven't played the valid games no "smart casino" will let you forefit the bonus...

    As a matter of fact, I have never seen a casino that allows to forefit bonuses.

    If you accept a bonus with a 30x rollover you can not use that bonus to play roulette, win a lot of money and then forefit the bonus... Don't you think everyone will do that??

    Regarding invalid games casinos should be clear if they want them invalid or forbiddedn.. Invalid is understood that wageres placed in those games will not count. At no point these people said that if you played X game your bonus and winnings will be voided.

    Forbidden, Invalid, Forbidden, Invalid ... its not Nuclear phisics...

    I believe that the 300% bonus at golden palace very clearly informs not to play certain games... that is how it should be done. If its not goldenpalace's its another one.

    The Casino is responsible of making all their rules clear as water.
     
  36. May 19, 2006
  37. Dirk Diggler

    Dirk Diggler Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Company Secretary
    Location:
    UK
    Yes, could well be that. However the terms clearly stated that an early withdrawal would result in the forfeit of the bonus - NOT winnings as well. Therefore they have no right confiscating the winnings.
     
  38. May 19, 2006
  39. phynqster

    phynqster Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    los angeles, ca
    Sorry, but in my eyes if you forefit a bonus than any play from that bonus would also be forefitted. This was a no deposit bonus, Shank did not use any of his money. These means all you have to do with a no deposit bonus is make one bet for the full amount of the bonus, if you win cash out and say remove the bonus I don't want it (forefit) and just cash out the win, with out ever making playthru.
     

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