We could do with a "Vindicative Poster Award" to cover people who insist on accusing their fellow posters of fraud for having the temerity to try and win with bonuses using any games/strategies allowed by the terms and conditions.
Ahh... the poster children for "Bonus Hunting" have arrived. How quaint.
"Vindictive Poster Award", eh? For the person who insists on accusing fellow posters of
fraud? Does one such post win this award? I don't recall taking sides against legitimate bonus hunters (which I will define below). As far as I can recall atm, this is the first bonus issue I have involved myself in, and if it isn't, I feel even more assured that I have not accused anyone of bonus fraud before. Troubling is that you are putting words into my posts! I never said 'fraud', you are. I'm discussing a moral issue, as technically and legally, there is no fraud involved in loophole exploiting. It's a moral issue.
Now let's discuss Bonus Hunting, shall we? Pull up a chair and I'll offer a cup of tea.. or if you prefer, a brandy? Fine.
Back in the day when Bonus Hunting was coined, it did not involve fraud or anything immoral. Bonus Hunters where looking for the best OFFERS, not loopholes or areas to exploit. Of course, however as you have pointed out, this is not Mayberry anymore, and because bonuses dealt with money, the less-scrupulous started to test for weaknesses which easily started crossing into the path of morals. Whole communities and forums sprang to life, educationg and promoting bonus ABUSE. So here we are, years later, and legitimate bonus hunting is an extremely tough existence. Did you note I said 'legitimate'? ie., looking for the best offers and terms,
BEING UP FRONT with the casino you intend to do business with? So, as a natural course of action versus opposite reaction, legitimate Bonus Hunters began employing less moral tactics, leading to the coinage of a new phrase,
BONUS ABUSER. I'm not even sure actual Bonus Hunters exist anymore, as the environment has hastened their extinction. If any do exist, they are a rarity.
Now the problem I have here is that you ex-Bonus Hunters are trying your hardest to get legitimate community players to ACCEPT your bonus abuses as legitimate HUNTING, which it is NOT any longer. You aim to change the landscape and gain acceptablility for the way you go about your business in today's climate. Remember the good ol' days when bonus hunting was cool? You all were held up as heroes! Now that more and more bonus hunting leads to bonus abuse, you have been tossed to the side, a memory of how good it once was. It's always sad to see heroes fall.
So don't give me this BS about Tristan being a Bonus Hunter and doing something legitimate. It may very well NOT be illegal, but it's FAR from legitimate anymore. How many times have I read Bryan posting "you're better off not taking the bonuses. You'll have far less problems, and nearly zero scrutiny", to loosely quote. It's your choice to bonus hunt/exploit/abuse, but if you do, you shouldn't be here wasting Bryan's time to get you your money. Grow up and take responsibility for your style of gameplay.
Thanks for showing up to defend Tristan's bonus hunting technique, but in reality all you've done is clarify that you agree he is seasoned enough to have known better, therefore this isn't an accident, therefore this was an exploitation attempt.
Just a touch over the top, perhaps? We don't even know if this was a loophole - Pontoon has much higher variance than BJ, so it's possible someone at the casino simply chose to allow it. And the only way this case makes anything tougher for anyone else is if you wanted to play Pontoon - but I take it you didn't as you've probably bought into the weird but somehow prevalent conviction that playing the games that usually define casinos (BJ, roulette and the like) is illicit on-line. I'd have thought many players coming to this site recently would be a bit puzzled by the near monopoly slots (found in cheap amusement arcades as well as casinos) now have.
LOL... it's so amusing to watch you scramble for anything to make a point.. even if it didn't exist anywhere previously. A sure sign of someone with no real argument... round and round and round in circles we go...
If you MUST inquire into my personal playing preference, and thanks for your concern, I enjoy a good game of craps and find roulette quite relaxing as well. Have you seen my winner's screenshots in the slot thread? Oh you haven't? Don't bother looking, I don't have any, I don't play slots. Maybe the slot players will now come jump your ass for insinuating that their favorite pastime is nothing more than cheap amusement that you can find in any arcade? Surely your gameplay is MUCH more intelligent and legitimate. You're a TRUE gambler, aren't you?
Sure, and life was swell before the internet - we all had so much more time for meeting each other face to face
You might as well attack all the millions who've taken advantage of that. Bonuses create bonus hunters - if you offer players money they're going to take advantage of it, and it's not some evil scheme to pervert the higher aims of the casinos (trapping as many as possible into depositing and losing) - it's a normal and natural process. [just realised I missed that you're talking about their t&cs now... but the general point still stands]
Yes, you do seem to just want to rant without regard to the original post you are quoting. That would be sign #2 that you don't really have much of an argument. Once again and to repeat, my only response to such a rant is that there was once a day when Bonus Hunting was a legitimate 'sport', if you will. Nowadays you want us to accept Bonus Abuse and exploitation as a 'variation' on bonus hunting. Too funny! I like your sense of humor Vesuvio! Charming!
Why would he talk to CS? If you ask about a game other than slots then they know you're not the type of player they want and they're perfectly in their rights to ban you from playing. That, plus the hassle and the fact that CS often know much less about their own terms and conditions than players do. You're better off sticking with the given text.
Why would you talk to CS? Oh wait, the HUMOR again!! You slay me... :notworthy
Why do many of the veteran players here and Bryan say this over and over again?? You speak to CS to
COVER YOUR ASS. Get it in writing what you intend to do. In the good ol' days of legitimate bonus hunting, this wasn't a problem! It's a problem now because bonus hunting has run its course, casinos have tightened the bonus game, and now you're left with bonus ABUSE. At that point, I can clearly see why you wouldn't clarify your intention.
For what it's worth I don't think the player has a water-tight case here, but the casino have acknowledged they left room for doubt by not mentioning pontoon, so I do think they should pay. In a better world they might put it down to experience and even thank the player for bringing the matter to their attention
Well we agree on something then. Shall we toast to it?
I never said he shouldn't be paid. Please check back if in doubt, I'll wait...
Very well then, I have publically agreed that the casino should be responsible for the T&C's and in this case I believe the OP should be paid. Immediately following, he should be banned and blacklisted, or at a minimum, never be eligible for another bonus.
Thank him? For attempting to rip them off? I hardly think so, Vesuvio.
If he was a stand-up guy, he would have contacted CS, clarified, then warned them to change their T&C. He should have posted that here as well, which would have greatly encouraged the casino to clarify and/or clean up their English. He didn't do that... he deposited and began to exploit.
What an upstanding community member! Everyone cheer!
I believed this website and forum existed for equal ethical standards for both business and patron. Based on what I have read from Bryan, this is absolutely my belief still. There exists a plethora of other communities and discussion forums where bonus abusers and exploiters can all sit around and pleasure each other. For those of us who want to try and be fair to both the player and the casino, please do not further force us to watch this freak show.
And defintiely stop asking Bryan to clean up your mess afterwards. Icky!
- Keith
