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WMS Hot/Cold "Cycles" Observations (Montezuma/Rhino)

Discussion in 'Slots Discussion' started by SilverBlue, Aug 7, 2017.

    Aug 7, 2017
  1. SilverBlue

    SilverBlue Newbie member

    Location:
    Long Branch
    Hello Everyone,

    I wanted to see if others have seen the same observations as I think I do.

    Do you notice WMS games (especially Rhino and Montezuma, although Ive seen with others too like Zeus), go into "cycles"?

    I dont want to define them STRICTLY as hot/cold cycles, but I am seeing some things for sure.


    #1. If the reels are going around more than once... forget about getting any bonuses. It looks like the reels are spinning slower, but really they are spinning more than 1 full rotation each. When this happens it takes a longer time for the reels to stop. When the reels are spinning fast (meaning they don't even go around a full cycle), bonuses are more frequent!

    #2. The TYPES of bonuses seem to be on cycles too. For instance... all weekend long, my Montezuma bonuses would not re-trigger. It was as if we were going through a no re-trigger cycle. Or sometimes I've seen where I always get a certain number of spins. Me and a friend both got 7 spins like 90% of the time on the same weekend. Or on Rhino, sometimes you will see absolutely no more than 3 Rhinos connect for an entire weekend.

    I have been playing for years, and I swear I am seeing this... wondering if anyone else does.

    Thanks,
    Adam
     
  2. Aug 7, 2017
  3. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    Yes, they do and these cycles are sustained over thousands of spins too. I find that the Rhino features, the big ones, will clump together over a period of a few thousand spins, then back to the sequence of say 40 features with 25 BoGs, 10 paying between 1-2x BoG and 3 or 4 around 50x and one paying around 100x. Repeated diamonds 1+6 or just reel 1 with no others along with regular 2-reel Honey Badger and Gorilla wins and not seeing the 4-5 reel 9 or 10's combos is another sure sign of shiteness.
     
  4. Aug 7, 2017
  5. SilverBlue

    SilverBlue Newbie member

    Location:
    Long Branch
    Crap

    that means after I won this, I should have played more!

    You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 12, 2017
  6. Aug 7, 2017
  7. Jono777

    Jono777 Meister Member CAG mm4 mm1

    Occupation:
    Self- Employeed
    Location:
    Wolverhampton
    Bang on the money, witnessed LOTS of times.

    Question begs tho, we know, this, we see, this, it never changes, yet we carry on spinning when the session is like this :oops: :confused:
     
  8. Aug 7, 2017
  9. SilverBlue

    SilverBlue Newbie member

    Location:
    Long Branch

    oh I don't. Within 5 to 7 spins I can tell by the reel movements... that its going to be bad.

    Can anyone tell this?

    Also worried about when they deploy the HTML 5 versions. I feel you cant tell anything on those.
     
  10. Aug 7, 2017
  11. Jono777

    Jono777 Meister Member CAG mm4 mm1

    Occupation:
    Self- Employeed
    Location:
    Wolverhampton
    Agreed!

    Wont use the dreaded 'R' word but HTML Rhino sure is awful in terms of game time compared to the original/flash.

    Not spotted or read of any 'tell's as yet but I limit myself to no more than say 50 spins and move on if no small wins coming.

    Managed 12 back-to-back featureless busts on HTML5 before I employed my 'move on' tactic, something I never encountered more than 2-3 times in years on original Rhino :rolleyes:
     
  12. Aug 7, 2017
  13. SilverBlue

    SilverBlue Newbie member

    Location:
    Long Branch


    so we have to ask ourselves... did the published RTP change on the HTML5 version? If not, how can it be different.

    I may not even play anymore, simply bc the reel motions are terrible.
     
  14. Aug 7, 2017
  15. slot_zombie

    slot_zombie Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    UK
    - Bang on and cannot be explained by randomness or players looking for patterns.

    - There has been no change to the published RTP of HTML5 Rhino. It's just dreadful to play though.

    - HTML5 Rhino along with Bruce Lee is already widely deployed. We can expect Flash Rhino to be completely extinct within the next quarter I'd guess.
     
  16. Aug 7, 2017
  17. SilverBlue

    SilverBlue Newbie member

    Location:
    Long Branch
    why



    why the change?
     
  18. Aug 7, 2017
  19. SilverBlue

    SilverBlue Newbie member

    Location:
    Long Branch
    weekend cycle

    so this weekend I hit 12 Montezuma bonuses... NOT ONE gave me a re-trigger.. and all were 50x or less.

    We KNOW this aint random. This game goes into cycles. Now Im not sure if its the same cycles for everyone at the same time across all casinos... but there HAS to be cycles built in
     
  20. Aug 7, 2017
  21. slot_zombie

    slot_zombie Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    UK
    Flash is being phased out and is no longer supported by Adobe.
     
  22. Aug 27, 2017
  23. SilverBlue

    SilverBlue Newbie member

    Location:
    Long Branch
    Zeus

    Another cycle I just noticed:

    last week all my Zeus bonuses had many reel 1 and reel 2 full zeus symbols and then nothing else. MANY times.

    This week I am getting reel 1, reel 2, reel 3, and sometimes even reel 4 (almost a full screen of Zeus) on my bonuses.

    I swear this thing runs on cycles.
     
  24. Aug 27, 2017
  25. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    I have always said that slots from WMS, IGT, Yggdrasil and the like are not what I personally call "truly random".
    The reels are clearly "gimped" so it wouldn't surprise me if something else was written into the coding to produce these "streaks".
    They are obviously "random enough" to pass the licensing requirements - but that doesn't make them 100% random by my definition.
    A bit like the big £500 machines in the arcades - it they were truly random you would have the possibility of winning more than £500 - but they are controlled so that this never happens.
    Doesn't mean they're not fun to play though - or that you can't win on them!

    KK
     
  26. Aug 27, 2017
  27. SilverBlue

    SilverBlue Newbie member

    Location:
    Long Branch

    Actually it could still all be random with the £500 machines. Remember, as soon as you hit the button, your winning amount is already calculated. So it picks a number from £0 to £500 randomly for you to win, and then it displays or controls the reels to display that value. Doesn't mean it is not random.

    True, I have no problem with the cycles. In fact, they help! I know when we are in a bad cycle, so I stay away for a day or so.
     
  28. Aug 27, 2017
  29. JGslots

    JGslots Senior Member PABinit webmeister

    Location:
    Wirral, UK
    Will we lose lots of older slots when Flash is phased out to HTML5? There's loads of old classic slots. I wonder if it will be worth the cost for them to change or they might have an easy process to update them.

    Rob :)
     
  30. Aug 27, 2017
  31. slot_zombie

    slot_zombie Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    UK
    We shall all have to play Emoji Planet, Jungle Spirit and Emoticoins.
     
  32. Aug 27, 2017
  33. JGslots

    JGslots Senior Member PABinit webmeister

    Location:
    Wirral, UK
    Kill me now. :D
     
  34. Aug 27, 2017
  35. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    That is exactly what I mean by "not truly random".
    Yes, it randomly picks a win from £0 to £500 - but that is not the same as a truly random slot, like Thunderstruck for example, where the reels have fixed reel strips and each symbol has an exactly equal random chance of landing on each reel, on each spin.
    Theoretically there is no limit as to how much you could win from a single paid spin if you got free-spins and they carried on re-triggering.

    KK
     
  36. Aug 27, 2017
  37. Jono777

    Jono777 Meister Member CAG mm4 mm1

    Occupation:
    Self- Employeed
    Location:
    Wolverhampton
    Whilst I agree with 99.99% of this point, I also feel with online slots (not B3's, FOBT's etc) there is 99% random and 1% "enough is enough"

    An example is IGT's Cleopatra. I used to play the original (not this 'Big Win' nonsense 'remake' :p) very heavily. IIRC (don't let me down now memory you git) their 'random' slot was limited to a maximum of 11 re-triggers (thus a total of 180 FS in bonus round)

    I'd be surprised if this was not the case with most slots, however couldn't confirm 100% either way.

    Now with Thunderstruck all I can speak from is past experiences. Exaggerations aside over the years, I have to have put millions of spins through this little tart.

    Most re-triggers in all this time I have managed is 6 (105 FS Total) of course I believe / feel that it could have done more, one day I'll beat my record but my point is there has to be a "Full Stop" at some point.

    Only contradiction to my own point I can think of at this point is that they are relying on a random spin (x15 with no 3 x scatter) to bring an end to a random event maybe???

    Confused??, you will be :p

    Happy Sunday folks, I'm off for a few none rigged, truly random, winning spins :thumbsup:
     
  38. Aug 27, 2017
  39. trancemonkey

    trancemonkey Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Games Producer
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Why does there? Do you think if we built cycles in to games we would want you to have 12 crap bonuses in a row? No of course not... Your evidence is proof they ARE random. Hence you had such a bad run.
     

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