withdrawing with sticky bonus

[happygobrokey]

has anyone ever encountered a casino that, when you do a sticky type 1 bonus, wants you to initiate the withdrawal for only the deposit and winnings, and they subtract the bonus from your casino balance when they do the withdrawal?

this seems counterintuitive, because the player would then have all these bonus funds sitting in their balance that they can never withdraw and are useless to play with (i don't think they'd like me to play and possibly win with these sticky 1 bonus funds in the interim, 3 weeks in this case, more on that below), and which would interfere also if the player made a subsequent deposit and cause nothing but confusion. not to mention every other place (just to help you picture the cashier format this is an rtg) says to withdraw the full amount and they manually subtract the bonus at time of cashout from the amount of the withdrawal.

and even were i aware of this rule they claim to have, the bonus in question was offered on the spot through live chat as a last day of february promotion. of course i spent a few minutes asking about required wagering and allowed games etc, but apparently i never asked about the cashability of the bonus and they felt they didn't need to tell me straight up ahead of time. so i didn't know i wasn't going to get this 1250 of bonus in the first place. and my entire balance did show as withdrawable in rtg cashier screen.

but what irks me the most is that they assert "7-10 business days" for cashouts, and after exceeding that ridiculously poor time frame, they then decide to remove my bonus from the cashout for 2000 and bounce the remaining 750 from that cashout back to my casino balance. so now i will likely be waiting 2-3 weeks or more again for considerably less money than i thought i was getting in the first place. i can take the hit of them removing the bonus, although i'm a bit upset i could have wagered differently to make the score more adequate had i known this was the case. but i do not condone them reversing the funds that i did want to cashout and that were legitimately mine back to my casino balance when i initiated the cashout request three weeks ago.

if their cashout were done in under a week, i wouldn't be mad, but since this folly is causing me to be deprived of access to my own money for maybe up to another month, that they are causing me damages. i could be putting this money to work for me, either at the 'jack tables of a place that actually pays in a reasonable amount of time, or legitimately investing. with this decent size win i was thinking about setting up a mutual fund or something. perhaps with the 1250 removed this will not be viable, but in any event they should have already paid by now and i'm starting to get quite irate.

i just want someone to agree that this is a stupid way to conduct business. the excessive cashout times are sickening. reversing money i won back to my account just because i tried to withdraw non-cashable bonus funds (when that is the norm for how a sticky is handled). not clearly stating the conditions of their spot bonus, yet referring me to "read all the rules". the csr even gave me an anecdote "i guess it's like my dad always said, know what you're getting into before you dive in". i told him, "i'm never going to ask if to cashout on your offer i need to initiate the withdrawal from an IP based out of africa but if i don't ask that then you have every right to impose it after the fact if you want?" this just happens to be a fair amount of money to me, more than i have in my bank account right now (the total of three withdrawals on which i'm waiting, well, the one of which has been reversed as aforementioned), and being taken round the block to get my money is blowing hard. can i get some sympathy, meister-forum'ers?

 

[Nifty29]

You're right - its a really really stupid way to handle a sticky bonus, and 7-10 days is laughable.

Experience has taught me that terms like 7-10 day cashouts and verbal-only bonus offers are a huge red flag. I have never, and will never, accept any sort of bonus unless it is via email with all the rules included, or posted on the website with the rules clearly displayed.

You should definitely look at this as a learning experience and stick with reputable casinos that pay within 48 hours.

Good Luck!

 

[happygobrokey]

definitely agree, and that sort of thing is typically not my flavour. i went for their signup because it was 100% to $200 with relatively low wagering and pontoon allowed. then after finishing the wagering at a balance of 870 with comp points included, i went to ask about the speed of cashout and was offered this crazy 250% bonus, and figuring since i still had over a week to wait, i thought what the heck i'm running red hot at rtg's let's go for broke. and i kept winning, and with luck i'll see most or all of it

p.s. nifty, if you ever get offered a spot bonus, do you ask them to email the offer and all its rules to you? i should and will from now on take more caution, but i was being cavalier due to my recent win streak, and did win enough i won't particularly miss the 1250. i should have figured it to be or played it as though it was sticky anyway to maximize. s'all good!

 

[lojo]

You'll probably be lucky to see a penny, HGB. If you've played a bonus there before, make sure the tnc don't caveat 'all historically issued bonuses can/will be deducted from any cashouts'. That is indeed the most riduculous term i have ever read. Only on rtg.

 

[Nifty29]

Yep Happygo - absolutely always ask for an email confirmation with ALL the terms.

Ive been called countless times and offered live chat bonuses also and have probably taken up a handful at best - only because they actually sent the email I requested. The casinos that didnt send, or refused to send, an email proved that they werent worthy of my patronage.

Nowadays, any offer that looks too good to be true probably is...

I remember the days when I could take a signup bonus of 100% up to $100 with a 5x (D+B) playthrough with almost any casino....ahh good times...

 

[vinylweatherman]

Playtech

Playtech has this oddity, where it gives a spurious error message if you try to cash in including the sticky bonus, but works when you exclude it. As soon as the withdrawal is made for just the deposit+winnings, the bonus immediately disappears from the balance.
I have also cashed out from an RTG under these rules, and the whole amount is requested, and the bonus is removed by the processing department. This looks more like a delaying tactic in the hope you lose everything back through impatience. Just look at the evidence:-

Offered huge bonus on attempted cash-out.

Cashout left pending for a week, bonus removed by processor, but balance returned to account in the hope you will play it, perhaps they hope you mistake it for a free chip as it is not the original amount requested.

No doubt, failure to fall for this will earn a locked account as they probably never intended this $750 to escape

 

[happygobrokey]

update.

strange turn of events. to get this spot bonus, they required i reverse my cashout from when i did the signup. a bit stupid, i thought, and i voiced my concern of losing the entire win i made. they let me reverse most and take bonus on the deposit and whatever portion of the (reversed) withdrawn funds i wanted. so i took bonus on 500 and cashed out 619 (the 1st withdrawal). last week they bounced my (2nd) w/d for 2000, removed 1250 bonus and put the remaining 750 back in casino balance. now this week they bounced the (1st) w/d for 619, then the account history shows a manager withdrawal request (identical to the one removing the 1250 bonus) for 1369, which equals 619 + 750.

then, and this is where it gets really strange, i get an email and the account history shows i deposited 875 just today. so they take the 1369 i was going to get paid and then stick 875 in my account? i still have a third cashout for 600 which is coming up on 10 business days also, but i doubt if that's going to be a smooth transaction given the state of things so far. and the total amount i've ever deposited would only be 200 for the signup and then 250 on the spot bonus, so this 875 figure is not "we're giving back your original money and piss off", but i really have no idea why they put it there or what it's for. and i sure as heck can't use it to play! i hope the "manager withdrawal" of 1369 is just some way of expediting my money to me, since i whined how the 750 was sent back to my balance instead of processed after the bonus was subtracted, but then why the 875? i don't get it.

all throughout this also, they have been saying they got new management and are trying to adjust etc, and the person i spoke with in live chat today when i asked about this 875 and the manager taking my entire balance, said that he (AJ) was the new manager and that he had a list of people's issues to attend to as a residual of the management change-over and customers with issues unresolved. so he said to email him (although when asked for his personal address said just send it to their typical cs email address) my issue and he would review and sort it out in due course. so below is my email to aj, i'll shrink it since it's long and says mostly what i've said here already.

hello aj, this is my history at betroyal. i first got my account there in around mid february. i deposited 200 and received the 100% signup bonus. i played through the bonus, then added the accumulated comp points, and initiated a cashout for 869. a little over a week later, i came back into live chat to inquire about my cashout request. cs told me it would be 7-10 business days for a withdrawal. then they told me they had a special end of the month bonus on, 250% on all deposits. but i was told i had to reverse my withdrawal to get the bonus. i said i couldn't afford to put that win that i wanted to cash out at risk. so then the csr told me to compromise, reverse the withdrawal, make a deposit, then make a new withdrawal for the amount i wanted to keep. so i reversed the 869, deposited 250, made a new withdrawal for 619, and took 250% bonus on 500, or 1250 bonus with 1750 starting balance.

after losing down to my last 50 dollar bet and coming back, i had met wagering with a balance of 2600. as the max single withdrawal is 2000, i initiated withdrawals for 2000 and 600 on the first of march. i reversed and played with the 600 the next few days, just for fun, but a few days later made the withdrawal again for 600. i then waited the requisite 10 business days plus one just to make sure, and sent off an email. the weekend came, with no response, and i logged on to chat with cs again. at this time i also discovered my cashout for 2000 had been manually reversed by the manager, and the 1250 of bonus removed. i was never told the bonus was a sticky, but after some arguing with the rep james cash to whom i've always spoken and who gave me the bonus, in any event, i concede perhaps i ought to have asked, but i also feel it's on the person offering a spot bonus over chat to clarify a major term such as cashability without my having to ask. set that aside, i still have some decent money coming to me.

problem is, now i've waited three weeks for my cashout and one of the amounts is now reversed back to my account, meaning another 2-3 weeks wait for my own money. and when i mentioned this to the chat operator, he said "if you had not tried to withdraw non-cashable bonus your payout would have been carried out normally already." the problem is, firstly, i was never made aware i could not cash out the bonus money until all these weeks after when it's manually withdrawn from my bounced cashout, secondly, any other casino that offers a sticky bonus requires you set your withdrawal for the full amount, and accounting subtracts the bonus funds AND THEN CASHES OUT THE REST TO THE PLAYER. to say i was wrong to try to withdraw bonus funds is ridiculous. if i were to leave the 1250 bonus in my account, how/when would you go remove it? three weeks later, what if i deposit and play between then, what about all that bonus sitting in my account? i can't win from it, i can't withdraw it. if i try to use it to wager and win with while i wait on the winnings from playing that bonus, i doubt that's allowed. how can it be the norm the player is not supposed to include the bonus funds with the cashout (even if they are sticky and the player expects them withdrawn), and that the bonus funds must then sit to rot in the casino balance, unusable until the dreadfully long 7-10 business days are up and they're withdrawn? i don't care at all that the bonus was sticky, i just can't see how you can reverse the remainder of the cashout back to my balance, especially given the length of time it takes for you to process a withdrawal.

which brings us to this week. after talking about how the bonus was a sticky and how accounting is closed on sunday, i went back to talk to live chat on monday, when they could confer with accounting. i was promised i would get a response in the next two days, which did not come. upon checking my email today, i see a "deposit request" for betroyal, strange when i have been waiting for almost a month now on payouts. so i log in to my account, and i see now i have only one pending cashout, for 600 (the third withdrawal). the account history shows my initial cashout of 619 being declined and bounced back to my account. this amount, along with the previously bounced 750 (from the 2000 withdrawal minus the 1250 bonus), makes 1369. this 1369 was then manually withdrawn by the manager (as per the account history), and then for some reason 875 was credited to my account. so the 1369 which should have already been paid back to me by now has mysteriously disappeared, and replaced with a credit of 875 to my casino balance.

of course, i still have the pending withdrawal for 600, but needless to say i'm less than confident that transaction will go through smoothly. i hope the manager withdrawal of 1369 is some kind of fast track to expedite its withdrawal back to my neteller, but if so then why was i credited 875 back to my casino balance? all i have done was take up your signup offer, reversed my cashout to get a special spot bonus, and cashed out my wins. since then, i've had the bonus revoked, two withdrawals bounced and those funds then disappearing, then a random credit of 875. i'm seriously confused. what is going on? all of this commotion is keeping my own money tied up with you (money i'm anticipating receiving and have already begun spending), and also preventing me from playing your casino, since my balance is frequently changing and i don't want to risk getting what i'm due by playing anything that comes to sit in my casino balance. please check into all this and get back to me for once. thank you


i just hope i don't have to fight for months over this. i got lucky at pontoon and made a couple grand at a site for my first time ever, and i'm getting jerked around to no end. famous last words: i'll stick to meister-accredited joints from now on! but seriously, i wouldn't mind if bryan did chime in on this. don't know yet if it's bitch-pitch worthy, and if they are indeed turning over their staff then such a lag in paying out might be acceptable, but all this business with bouncing my withdrawals and deleting my funds is making me anxious. anyone know if in fact betroyal is in fact changing ownership/staff right now or recently? i understand they were at the end of a big scandal before, but i know they had rebranded since those days. any news or input, brothers?

 

[Nifty29]

Good luck Happy - doesnt look like you broke any rules so there shouldnt be an issue IMHO.

Dont let up though....keep hammering away and, if they dont pay, name there here publicly.

 

[happygobrokey]

update. got two emails today from aj.

Bob I did notice that there was a big missunderstanding with these bonuses. Some of the clerks you spoke to, no longer work in the company because of missleading information.
However it is the responsabity of our players to read all rules and regulations before taking any bonuses, and it is really not up to the clerk to do so, becuase of the many coupons we have going on at the same time, it would be difficult to do so. It is the comnpanies right to to change policies.
This is the reason for us not to take full responsability and to only go as far as to deal with the clerks as we did, and also to start off fresh from the beginning.
What we did is that we zeroed out the balance, that first of all should have not been there and the $875 you notice, comes from your last deposit of $250 + 250% added that we re-credit so you can start off fresh now that you know the rules.
Being that there are so many versions of what happened,all pointing to a missunderstanding, we made this decision.
I understand that you where expecting a payout, but as mentioned before, those winnings never should have existed in the first place
I will promise that I will compensate you more for the trouble as we go along.
I am the new manager here, and I am focused on solving these small details, and you can rest assure that you will be honored on your payouts if you deal with me and my casino staff only , pertainning matters of the casino.

Regards,

AJ

(next one)
I forgot to mention that I was able to approve the withdrawal for $600, that was pending. I know it was not exactly what you expected, however I have hopes that by doing this you will give me at least a jump start to prove you that things will get better here under the new managment.

Regards,

AJ

so they're denying the entire sequence of play wrt the bonus, but they still bounced my withdrawal from the signup and just took the 250 of reversed withdrawal i also was given bonus on? yet they approve a cashout (the 3rd withdrawal) of winnings from the bonus? this "solution" has everything ass backwards. if the bonus is being erased from history, then i should be paid my original withdrawal prior to reversing it to get the bonus (869), plus the deposit i made for said bonus (250). as it stands now i have a withdrawal coming for 600 and in my account are 250 of my own dollars with 625 of sticky attached to it to begin wagering again. no thank you. so i am sending this email to aj right now to try and show him how slap-dash and not fair of a solution he is proposing.

aj, the first withdrawal i made was from the signup bonus. i had made a cashout for 869 around the 22nd of february. the staff then enticed me to reverse that transaction to get the questionable bonus. but the new withdrawal for 619 was still from wins i made, and if you are cancelling all my play for the 250% bonus, and have added the 875 as my 250 deposit and 250% bonus, then you should give me back the 250 which as part of my reversed withdrawal, or at the very least pay me the 619 anyway. if i had never taken the spot bonus i would have been cashing out 869 and not 619, and now you decide to pay neither of these amounts?

oh but the second email you sent that i read first says you are paying out the 600 withdrawal, so that's good i guess. but makes no sense given the explanation you've sent me here. that 600 should be considered a part of my play with the bonus and thus also deleted or taken away. what i should be paid if you are voiding the entire bonus out of existence, is give me my withdrawal for 869 and then refund my 250 which was the deposit for the bonus.

i do not want to do all the wagering for the bonus again, if that is what the 875 is for, since it's a sticky and i could easily lose all my money. i wasn't aware of this when i took the large bonus, but again i'm not mad, but also with 1250 bonus you have more chips with which to make a nice win off of the bonus. i'm more nervous starting with 875 than i would be committing twice as much and starting with 1750. i just don't feel like undertaking this bonus any more, and after over a month i just want to get my money.

it's bad enough you want to just void my win/play on the bonus to make things easier for you, but if you are using your discretion to do that then please give me all the wins i made (869) from the signup and the deposit made for the bonus (250) back. ideally i would like to be paid (619+750+600)=1969, but if you void my bonus play (and return accompanying deposits [of which a partial withdrawal was a portion, which is being forgotten in your "solution" so far] and prior withdrawals not pertaining to the bonus) then i will happily take (869+250)=1119.

but where we stand now, with 600 on its way to me, and i stand a chance to lose the 875 in my balance (625 of which is non-cashable anyway) is unacceptable. this solution does not set me equal to where i stood before undertaking the bonus, and forces me to complete wagering all over again. if you are still offering me to have this bonus, then why not just use the play i already made and pay me accordingly? i did over 60000 in wagering, far more than i've ever attempted on any bonus to date, and came out far enough ahead to make a nice payday. now it's all been voided, because what, it makes your accounting easier? because they made me take bonus on part of a withdrawal?

i followed the rules, and the only discrepancy was that i included bonus funds as part of my withdrawal. the chat operator told me if i had done this, the withdrawals would have been handled normally. this turned into a big issue because of the timeframe of cashouts, and i was upset i would have to make a new withdrawal and wait so long for my money. but according to them, i met the terms of the bonus, and my only fault was to do what is the normal policy for cashing out, which is to withdraw my entire balance. even for a sticky, one includes the bonus funds in the withdrawal because they apply to the cashout being made. accounting should remove the bonus funds and process the remaining amount. it is not my fault the casino took the unorthodox view that i should not attempt to withdraw bonus funds, but it was an honest mistake as i believed the bonus was cashable, and regardless that is still how a withdrawal with a sticky bonus normally works.

i only complained that the surplus funds were bounced back since it deprived me of these funds for a further 2-3 weeks. now because your establishment is changing its staff all my play and wins are void? this hardly seems reasonable as i won fair and square. if you insist i will settle for 1119 (the value of my signup bonus cashout and the subsequent deposit), but i did fulfill all the terms to complete the bonus, so i really feel i am due the full 1969. but the situation i am in right now, 600 on its way, 250 locked up with wagering requirements, and the remainder of what my 1st cashout would have paid just disappeared, this is not an adequate solution to the issue. please re-examine the chronology of what transpired and agree with me that i should be paid more than the current situation is allowing. thanks, rob

i wasn't too mean there, was i? but giving me the bonus on half what i took bonus on originally, forcing me to complete wagering over again to get my own money back, and just taking the other half of the amount i used to claim bonus is not a fair compromise in my eyes. not to mention approving the cashout that comprised proceeds from wagering with the "phantom" bonus that we are forgetting ever happened, while denying the cashout that was made before the "phantom" bonus would ever have been taken? what do you lot think? and he called me bob, when my name is clearly rob. that grinds my gears

 

[happygobrokey]

meister, i need help!

a new reply. sorry these are so long, but i am trying to tell the entire story. so here's aj's new communication to me:

Bob I am having a terrible time here with your account. I can't say for sure what happened cause I was not here and most of the personnel is gone from the company.
For what I can read in the comments you where claiming and recieving bonuses when according to our rules you should have nevergotten in the first place.
All these winnings you mention come from money that was never yours to play with.
Unfortunatly our mistake was that our clerks never explained it to you correctly and never corrected the mistake . The people who you spoke to belonged to the Sportsbook and not to our casino, and that is why you where missled.
The company is standing 50/50 on this , it was a mistake coming from both sides.
That is why your account was zeroed out and the $875 was the last deposit you made plus bonus that was simply reverted back to your account so you may start fresh from the beginning.
I tried honoring the $600 that was pending , and I even went as far as to approve it as an act of good faith and send you an e-mail to inform you , but unfortunatly I got stopped by the accounting department.
They are willing to give you another start, but we will have to leave what happened in the past cause there is no one to blame.
I hope you can understand.

Regards,

AJ


so the first section i bolded tells me i must not have been able to get the signup (it's been awhile now, but i reckon that it was automatically added on initial deposit), because "all these winnings i mention come from money i never should have had". surely that's wrong, and nevertheless i still don't see my first deposit refunded to me anywhere then.

second bold: i talked to a sportsbook chat operator when i clicked the chat link from within the download casino platform? and the sportsbook operator is skilled enough to offer me casino bonus and know the playthrough and required games?

"you where missled." i don't even know where to begin with that, but ultimately they are admitting being at fault, and the new ownership cannot just shirk the mistakes and debts of the old regime.

and finally, accounting stopped the manager from paying me? this breaks the camel's back. i can accept so many excuses and allow them to excercise discretion, but this comment that accounting stopped payment on something a manager approves convinces me this is nothing but bullshit.

so my long-winded reply to aj will be as follows. only necessary to read if you enjoy my sharp wit and cogent arguments.

hello aj,

your response still confuses me. what about the first cashout from the signup bonus? i never got that money, and it was confiscated as well. you aren't saying i shouldn't have gotten a signup bonus, are you? you don't understand that before i took this questionable bonus, i did take the signup bonus, and made a win of 869. you must restore that, and as for the 875 in my account now, i no longer wish to partake in that bonus, and in your email you say i never should have gotten this bonus, yet now you want me to have it again to "start fresh", as you put it? and why when i log in the casino and click a link in the casino's lobby to live chat, would it send me to a sportsbook operator, and why would the sportsbook operator offer me casino bonuses? you say all the winnings i claim are from money i never should have had, yet i had to have had a cashout underway to reverse one, and this first cashout was from the signup. surely every new customer is allowed to claim a signup bonus. and if i was not allowed or able or the operator was not supposed to offer me the spot bonus that he did, then i would still have had that cashout for 869, as i would not have reversed the withdrawal nor made the second deposit. i will explain one more time very concisely the transactions.

i deposited 200 and got 200 in bonus for the signup. i completed wagering on the signup. i initiate a withdrawal for 869. days later, i ask about my cashout and live chat offers me 250% bonus. they tell me i MUST reverse my withdrawal to make a new deposit. i complain about having to put my entire win from the signup at risk. live chat tells me i can reverse, then deposit, then make a new withdrawal for what i want to KEEP SAFE from my original win. i reverse the 869, deposit 250 to the account, and make a new withdrawal for 619, leaving a balance of 500 (the new deposit and 250 of the original win at risk). they apply bonus of 1250 to my 500. i complete wagering on that bonus. i initiate cashouts for 2000 and 600. i wait a painstaking three weeks. i go back to live chat to ask why there are delays. a few days later, 1250 is removed from the 2000 cashout and the remainder 750 is back in my casino balance. casino tells me to hold tight while they attempt to sort it out further. a few days later, my first withdrawal (my signup bonus wins minus the 250 i used as part of the amount for the spot bonus) is bounced and my entire account balance seized.

highlight for me at what point something i did (of my own volition or as a result of what you yourself said was the staff misleading me) violated the rules or where something first went amiss. surely it wasn't claiming bonus on reversed withdrawal funds; the chat operator wanted to give me bonus on the entire amount of my reversed cashout plus whatever i deposited. it is not my fault he offered me this. and if we apply the solution you've given right now to this hypothetical: pretend i reversed my entire withdrawal, made a minimum deposit of like 20, and took bonus on 889. the amount that is in my account now is the amount of my actual deposit (+250% bonus), but all of the funds from the reversed withdrawal that i took bonus are not accounted for in your solution. so in my hypothetical, if you claim it was wrong that i take bonus on reversed money, then you would confiscate all that money and return ONLY the 20 dollar deposit with 50 bonus on it? clearly this is wrong. any funds i chose to withdraw should have been paid to me. when i opted to reverse the withdrawal, this was because the chat operator demanded i do it (i wanted to preserve the cashout that had been initiated over a week prior and use new money to get the second bonus, but live chat insisted i HAD TO reverse before i could deposit anew). that notwithstanding, they were still my funds when i chose to reverse them, and as you have "refunded" me the second deposit i made, likewise you ought to have done with the 250 of reversed withdrawal funds that i took bonus on. or alternatively, add that 250 back to the 619 of legitimate wins that i attempted to withdraw from my initial signup win, which are still yet to be paid.

and it still confuses me that i "never should have got" this bonus, but you return my deposit money with that same bonus attached to it. these solutions you offer are poorly explained and hardly satisfactory. at very first, i thought i was due 3219, after i find the 1250 is non-cashable, the amount drops to 1969. ok, my bad on that one, live and learn (1969 is still good after all). then i'm told the second bonus i took was somehow faulty, this means i should only get the value of the amounts i took bonus on (500) and my cashout that had nothing to do with the bonus (619), or 1119 (or you can phrase that as the value of the deposit for the bonus 250, plus the full withdrawal that would have remained intact had i not had to reverse it for the bonus, of 869, still totalling 1119). it can be no other way; if the second bonus never took place, the figure i am due is 1119, the 869 i would have kept waiting for, and the 250 i never would have deposited. and where we stand now is you took all my wins from the signup, and returned only my second deposit of 250, attached to a bonus i "shouldn't have gotten". please tell me how you see this as fair. please tell me also why my wins off of the signup have also been seized, and if you have dreamed up a reason why i should not have been able to receive a signup, then at the very least you owe me the 200 of it that was my own initial deposit. so clearly we are not resolved and i wish you'll reconsider exactly what money should have been paid and react in a manner according to what's fair and the cause and effect of the sequence of events.

thanks for your time, sorry if this is a nuisance but i won't let it go until i'm satisfied. i'm not asking for anything more than i should, given what you say the situation is. if you could please detail exactly which plays you deem void, and the reasons that you believe i'm not entitled to any of my withdrawals, then i will know which amount i should be due. i maintain that, given what i believe you claim was the error, i should be paid 1119. also explain why i should not have got that bonus (which wasn't up to you at the time, i think), and why you returned (technically half of) my deposit with same bonus as condition of giving me back the money? if we referred this case to an impartial third party, i believe it would come down that i should be owed more than the zero dollars i've been paid to date, and that my funds should be free of any restrictions at this point. please reconsider and get back to me, i hope we can get this done swiftly, privately, but most of all fairly. and please, from now on, it's rob, like with an R. talk to you soon, thanks again,


man this really sucks! admittedly i embellished on the last line of the email, as i am giving a play by play here so it's hardly private. but i mean more in terms of not bringing in an advocate like good ol' meister to fight for a proper resolution. but seriously bryan, i reckon i am going to need your backup on this soon, because i don't think they are going to bend even to my valid arguments and precise accounts of what monies went where and when. i pm'ed you, should i PAB at this point or give them more time? i'm getting to my wit's end on this, and i might have to get a job soon too because i got no money to play with right now and no other incomes. i am getting an education during all this though, so don't label me a degenerate heh heh. hey if they ultimately screw me can i claim my unpaid legitimate wins as gambling losses (ie against my other wins) on my taxes? i'm trying to keep my spirits up (as much as these artistes are wearing my patience thin; ay caramba!)

 

[happygobrokey]

no response in like four days now? what should i write back and say? is now when i should PAB? i'm so aggravated. this 2k american, as little as that is, would have seriously improved my situation. paid my car insurance for the whole year or whatever. and they really shouldn't be reneging all my play just because the way they do bonus is not how the previous guys did bonuses, not to mention all the undeniable wins they also aren't paying. help!

 

[lojo]

no response in like four days now? what should i write back and say? is now when i should PAB? i'm so aggravated. this 2k american, as little as that is, would have seriously improved my situation. paid my car insurance for the whole year or whatever. and they really shouldn't be reneging all my play just because the way they do bonus is not how the previous guys did bonuses, not to mention all the undeniable wins they also aren't paying. help!

PM the dude if he's here. PAB if that doesn't work. What else can you do?

 

[Vesuvio]

The new management claim and pretending that one part of the company doesn't know what the other's doing are classic slow/no pay tricks. You should pitch a bitch asap.

I'm not really clear, but is this Betroyal of Virtual Casino group? If it is then that's all the more reason to PAB - see Link Removed (Old/Invalid) and https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/wrong-to-give-virtual-casino-a-chance.16620/

 

[Mike031]

@happy, can you please tell us the name of this casino, because i'm playing a lot of RTGs and don't want play with casinos like this one, so it would be very nice, to let us know, which casino it is

Thanks a lot

 

[The Dude]

You need to PAB since I don't read all the threads - but I definitely read the PABs

 

[happygobrokey]

i want to PAB but it says i exceeded the upload limit. i suck at telling stories briefly, and it said also to explain in detail. because they change their story so many times i find it hard to know which details i can leave out and get the point across still. so forgive me in advance, but i am going to make the PAB very short, and if meister needs more details he can find them here since i have written pages worth.

PITCHED! i can't believe this is going down this way. i get lucky enough to win in the four figures, a substantial amount for me, and they just jerk me around to no end. over what's pennies to them... i hope meister can show them the error in their ways and convince them to pay me...

 

[happygobrokey]

egad, neteller!

don't know how this slipped by me, other than that i haven't been gambling since i tied all my funds up in bet royal, but i just recently found out* neteller will not do gambling transfers for canadians come april 7th or 9th.

if i don't get paid before then, does this mean i will have to get paid via a different means? or will they still accept money back to neteller from casinos for a while? i foresee this compounding the complexity of my conundrum. dangit bobby!

*in an email from intercasino they suggested i get an account at click2pay and even offer a bonus if i deposit through them. are they good? i vaguely recall some-pay (i think firepay but maybe click2pay ) is shutting up to canadians as well, is this right? i have moneybookers as well, just wondering how far this lockdown on canadian online gambling is going to go. i thought we were safe and free here, but alas i reckon it's fraudulent americans using canadian accounts etc to fund gambling that may have prompted these preemptive measures. any news on this? and did the budget pass? i haven't been following the news, but i hope we lack confidence so we can vote again. unlike america, we're not always stuck with our government for four years.

 

[Mike031]

@happy, can you please tell us the name of this casino, because i'm playing a lot of RTGs and don't want play with casinos like this one, so it would be very nice, to let us know, which casino it is

Thanks a lot

 

[happygobrokey]

seriously mike031, the name has been mentioned more than once in the thread. i have even asked on here for any verification and details that this place was indeed changing its management and staff. but here, just for you:

THE CASINO I AM AT ISSUE WITH IS BET ROYAL

 

[Mike031]

hi!

sorry, i don't know this casino and my english is not the best, so i must have overlook it

but thanks for this warning

 

[happygobrokey]

small update this time.

i go into live chat (not a transcript, just a condensed version):

me: aj around?
he: no sorry not till tomorrow morning
me: please get him to contact me
he: ok i will tell him to phone you
me: i would prefer email since i may not be home and i'd like to maintain correspondence in print
he: ok will do


no response! this was right after i PAB'ed, i was going to go quasi-bully them by mentioning they might expect communication from mr. bailey on my matter. but i noticed he's just slipped out on vacation. i have gotten in touch with debbee (greedygirl) about this. she assures me she'll get on it. or rather, she'll address it. (it's not meister's wife or anything is she? i presume he'd bring his family on vacation) does anyone else picture the cartoon character beetle bailey when they think about the meister? that should be his avatar!

 

[greedygirl]

no response! this was right after i PAB'ed, i was going to go quasi-bully them by mentioning they might expect communication from mr. bailey on my matter. but i noticed he's just slipped out on vacation. i have gotten in touch with debbee (greedygirl) about this. she assures me she'll get on it. or rather, she'll address it. (it's not meister's wife or anything is she? i presume he'd bring his family on vacation) does anyone else picture the cartoon character beetle bailey when they think about the meister? that should be his avatar!

No, I'm not Bryan's wife. I've been involved in this industry nearly seven years, working on the marketing side of things.

I've PM'd you regarding this...

 

[happygobrokey]

tried to put it all in a nutshell if you didn't get the PAB, maybe a coconut shell?



hi deb,

have you had time to pore over this agonizingly long thread? i see you did post to it, so i know you know where to find it. having had all this time to contemplate, i think the clause they are invoking to say i shouldn't have gotten the bonus is because it states that no bonus can be taken with a withdrawal in progress. however the casino told me explicitly to do just what i did do which was reverse, deposit, and make a new withdrawal to keep some safe. my understanding was because a player simply could not deposit when withdrawals were pending, and i will add that at the time the operator was offering the bonus to me, he warned me that i had only until noon --13 minutes from when he mentioned this fact, because i of course asked how long that actually would be because of time zones etc-- to take up the offer so i was rushing to find out all the details i could think of to ask and make the deadline.

in hindsight it was stupid to do this, but the casino was clearly pressuring me to both reverse my funds and make a deposit, and given my decent sized win at the signup, i was willing to make my largest deposit ever (250+250 more at risk from the 1st win) and take a chance with a supersized bonus with ~62000 wr. then for them to turn around and say that i broke the rules in holding back some of my initial win then taking bonus when the operator did offer me that compromise is absurd. a cop can pose as a drug dealer and bust you because drugs are illegal. but a casino cannot tell lies to entice you to deposit money you will never have a chance to get back.

whatever the reason, the fact is just that --that i haven't been informed of the exact reason. the old staff, the ones who accepted these deposits and wagers, informed me i had met all requirements. they also told me (weeks after i began to withdraw) that if i had not tried to withdraw the sticky bonus funds that i would have been paid normally.

only days after hearing that, i'm told the company is changing hands and the old guys were doing everything wrong. aj, the new manager as i was told, was in live chat and so i got to speak to him about my case of unpaid wins. it was admitted that both the casino's and my version of events were valid, but given the state of confusion, they came to the conclusion i was not entitled to receive any bonuses and (though these things were not communicated to me, i discovered) that they were going to:

1) bounce my initial withdrawal (surely i must have been allowed to take the signup bonus, so how is this right?);
2) zero my whole balance (the "safe" wins of 619 from the signup and the 750 of non-bonus bounced from the second withdrawal);
3) approve a subsequent withdrawal (clearly a win from the second bonus);
and 4) credit me with the amount of my 2nd ever deposit, 250 (but not the 250 in wins risked from the partially reversed withdrawal from my signup win), to which they attached 250% bonus --equal in proportion to that bonus i "never should have had" according to them-- telling me they will give me a chance to "start fresh" on the bonus.

a day or two later, the (self-proclaimed) manager aj (real name allen or alan i forget which, as another chat operator has since revealed to me) writes back with the same generic apologies and vague explanations as before, saying that i was misled and really ought never to have been allowed blah blah, and goes on to say that unfortunately accounting has also refused to allow the approval/command of aj (seemingly their boss) to have me paid the third withdrawal (and the only one not previously bounced) for 600.

the 600 in practical terms would have nearly left me square on the "safe" signup win of 619, and aj had said he had pre-approved the 600 to show me how pleased the new staff would make my experience, and promised to keep working with me to correct the situation.

for all intents and purposes the 600 and 619 are close enough that i would let the difference go, leaving only a battle to get the other 250 of reversed funds and have the "new starting fresh" bonus removed from the other 250 in the account --as i have no intention of completing wagering all over again when i had cleared the bonus (on twice the amount) previously and have since been told i never ought to have gotten such a bonus.

and since the bonus attached (625 on my 250 they GRACIOUSLY restored) is sticky, i would kind of have to gamble big and risk losing what is now the only funds they think i should be allowed to have. if they are indeed so preposterous as to deny my signup bonus as well, then they at least owe me my 200 initial deposit, but of course it's clear and was verified to me by the staff who did issue the bonuses and under whose terms of service and government i completed all of the wagering and by whom i was told i was indeed clear to cashout and should have been paid normally had i not attempted withdrawing sticky bonus funds, and that i have done more than twice the wagering required to have cleared my 250 deposit of any cashout restrictions, so all of this should be a moot point.

i made my wins all according to the rules, waited patiently over three weeks for the funds to come, only to find myself at the beginning of this bumpy and drawn-out path (complete with a casino-wide roster and apparently rules swap since overnight a "mistake withdrawal of bonus amount" turned into a "never should have received any bonus") where i'll likely lose 850 of my wins and if the casino act like sons of guns and won't bend then who knows what crap deal i could get stuck with?

450 should be the VERY least they should offer since that is the total of the money that i from my own neteller* deposited there, but that is like a slap in the face to just get my deposits back when i have done ~80000 in wagering there and accumulated sizeable wins. i would fight them to the death if possible for that kind of blatant lying and theft of ~2000 (USD) of my money. as a college student, this amount could have represented some 25% of my total monetary wealth had i been paid it, which is why it's so important that i not take this sitting down. this is why i have requested help from the premier casino watchdog site since 1998.

debbee, i got your pm and since you are handling this issue i shall now pm you back as well just with the accurate figures of the wins and types of results i would accept etc so you can contact the casino asap. thanks for your help and i hope there is a fair solution ahead to this.

*and neteller is closing any day now to canadians, so i will also need to work out a new way to accept what payment does come of this, needless to say i'll take it any way i can get it, even by wire @ $30 fee

unrelated update: i've made ~1500 profits from the likes of inter, wh, and a playtech i won't name since it's not for certain how that will turn out, but i'm not uber worried since i got a third party rebate for my entire deposit, although the win amount there does just bite into the four-figures, so yay i got some recovery and security for the time being and can afford to both gamble and do other things like eat out and play some poker and drink some beers; knocking on wood and crossing fingers.

once again i apologize for the ridiculously long post, but this was mainly to respond to greedygirl and i figured it's probably too many characters to pm and it sums up practically the whole story apart from the actual transcripts of communication.

 

[happygobrokey]

hello? debbee? i wonder if you can get in touch with them now. i spoke with aj in live chat today. he will reopen my case and i resent the email i posted here on post #10. hopefully i will be taken seriously this time. he really sounded sincere that he would try to track down an adequate solution this time. we'll see. i have saved the transcript this time, there's one funny part i'll post here:

AJ: I will reopen the case for you, but I cannot guarantee you anything, for now try to full read our terms and conditions especially point 9.8 9.8 We reserve the right, at our sole discretion, to offer and advertise from time to time promotions, bonuses or other special offers and each such offer will be subject to specific terms and conditions which will be valid for a limited period of time. In connection with the specific terms of the above promotions, bonus and special offers, we further reserve the right to withhold any withdrawal amount from your account which will be in excess of your original deposit. In addition, we reserve the right to withhold or otherwise decline or reverse any pay-out or winning amount or amend any policy in the event that we suspect that you are abusing or attempting to abuse any of the following: (i) bonuses; (ii) other promotions; or (iii) specific policy or rules determined in respect of an existing game or a new game. Bonuses are given solely at the discretion of the casino and are not applied in any circumstance to funds transfers to or from any Royal Sports properties.
gxxxxxxxm: yes i know, casinos hold that term very dearly
AJ: I will go the extra mile for you give me some time
gxxxxxxxm: i hope you will aj
gxxxxxxxm: and i am willing to be fair as well
gxxxxxxxm: if you seriously hear out my side of it, i am confident something can be worked out
AJ: Sure , get a hold of me again, if you do not hear from me, I send out e-mails but I am not sure when you receive them

so i have a glimmer of hope of seeing some amount of money. let's see how this develops. this is just what i need at exam time uggh my brain hurts

 

[happygobrokey]

bump

i know this was still on the first page but i wanna bump it since meister is back and his stand-in did nothing for me and it has now been over a month and a half since these issues began and i hope someone with power can speak for me and convince them to pay.

i am just one player who to them might be just crying, but they really shafted me, and i might add that my first deposit has not been returned but seized, and currently my other deposit sits in my account balance attached to a sticky bonus that i don't intend to play since i did far more wagering than necessary to clear the bonus it represents (that they revoked claiming my ineligibility for it) but they want me to "start fresh" with.

plus i've become such a degenerate, chasing after bigger wins elsewhere to make up for this money at betroyal. if this ever gets paid i will be back to normal again, but until then i am using money i shouldn't be using to gamble but rather to save and live off of. so the sooner the better. but of course meister's workload is large, and i am not pressuring him to hurry up, but talking to the casino is useless and they need someone to smack the sense into them before they'll pay when they don't want to.