Withdrawals refused by AmericanGrand/Royalcircus

[kevhalf]

Hi All...
I'm new to Casinomeister.. glad I found it! Below is a copy of my complaint I sent to Oliver Curran of AmericanGrandcasino about 3 weeks ago (I both emailed it to him, and sent him a private message from this forum... no response).

I'm wondering what you folks think of this:

=======================================================

Dear Mr. Curran...
My name is Kevin Halfpenny. On Dec 13/2005 I played some blackjack at AmericanGrand and had some good luck, raising my account to $947, whilst fulfilling all your posted wagering requirements. I had deposited $100 and received your $200 bonus.
The next day on Dec 14, I played another casino - RoyalCircus Casino and had another run of good luck on the blackjack table... turning my $100 deposit (with $200 bonus) into $1000, while again fulfilling all the wagering requirements. At this time, I did NOT know RoyalCircus and AmericanGrand were affiliated.
Anyway, I requested cashouts from both these casinos and was refused both, and my account from each subsequently locked up. Upon calling customer service, I was told that I was not allowed to have "multiple" accounts and as a result, my winnings were to be void.
I reviewed the T&C's for both AmericanGrand and RoyalCircus... nowhere do I see where a person cannot have accounts (and winnings) at both these casinos. It *does* state that :

"If there is evidence to suggest that you have more than one active account for the Casino; "

... I had only one account at Royalcircus, and one account at AmericanGrand. No "multiple" account. Also:


"7. Promotional offers are not available to any players who have been locked out of any of our sister casinos including (but not restricted to): High Rollers Lounge, etc etc"

... At the time of my cashout attempts, I had not been locked out of either AmericanGrand nor RoyalCircus.


As far as I can determine, I did nothing wrong and have been denied my rightful winnings. Why have I taken so long to bring this to your attention? I only recently discovered Casinomeister.com. Whereas before I figured my winnings were a lost cause, now I feel I have a chance to recover them.

I even called your customer service again today to discuss my case again. I was promptly hung up on by one of your very rude customer service people... some chap with an English accent.

I hope you can rectify this.

Thank You
Kevin Halfpenny
Email: (deleted)
AmericanGrand username: (deleted)
Royalcircus username: (deleted)

(deletions made to protect poster - Spearmaster)

 

[schankwart]

Firstly, I would recommend you to remove your private details from your post. Evil robotsoftware is going to pick it up eventually to be able to play some big brother with you.

As far as your actual complaint goes, you are not alone. I do not think there is any more to be added but what you can read in this thread:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...es-in-double-jeopardy.11234/?highlight=curran

You unfortunately came across a person that many consider to be the biggest >snipping off myself< across the Internet.
I am sorry to say that the money you won is "legally" gone, as you stepped in his trap there just like hundreds or thousands did before.

Contact Wesriv though... as he is collecting claims of those who are suffering of Mr. Currans tactics as well.

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[caruso]

I second all that.

There's a Cloud / Curran / Doleplex thread at WOL that's worthy of a bump, kevhalf.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Stick your complaint in there, or start a new thread.

 

[OliverCurran]

Updated Information

Dear Mr. Halfpenny

I have had a look into your case and find it quite interesting that you claim you have no multiple accounts at the casinos.

This is blatantly untrue.

There are multiple accounts in both American Grand and Royal Circus that are registered to the same IP address. Not only this, but one of the accounts is even registered to a gentleman with the same last name as you.

As you will note, our terms and conditions state:

2. Each promotional offer is available only once per person, family, household address, email address, credit card number, and environments where computers are shared (university, fraternity, school, public library, workplace, etc).

The account registered to the gentleman sharing your last name was banned on December 4, 2005. You opened your American Grand account 9 days later on December 13, 2005. You then opened your Royal Circus account a day after this, on December 14, 2005.

Therefore you have been in violation of our terms and conditions by:

A) Registering multiple accounts
B) Playing in our sister casinos after you have been banned in one of our casinos.

As you have been in violation of multiple terms and conditions, unfortunately we will not be reopening your accounts with either American Grand or Royal Circus.

Best wishes for the future,
Oliver Curran

 

[chuchu59]

Dear Mr. Halfpenny

I have had a look into your case and find it quite interesting that you claim you have no multiple accounts at the casinos.

This is blatantly untrue.

There are multiple accounts in both American Grand and Royal Circus that are registered to the same IP address. Not only this, but one of the accounts is even registered to a gentleman with the same last name as you.

As you will note, our terms and conditions state:

2. Each promotional offer is available only once per person, family, household address, email address, credit card number, and environments where computers are shared (university, fraternity, school, public library, workplace, etc).

The account registered to the gentleman sharing your last name was banned on December 4, 2005. You opened your American Grand account 9 days later on December 13, 2005. You then opened your Royal Circus account a day after this, on December 14, 2005.

Therefore you have been in violation of our terms and conditions by:

A) Registering multiple accounts
B) Playing in our sister casinos after you have been banned in one of our casinos.

As you have been in violation of multiple terms and conditions, unfortunately we will not be reopening your accounts with either American Grand or Royal Circus.

Best wishes for the future,
Oliver Curran

The crux of the matter lies in whether the player that was banned on 4th December took up the same promotion as Mr. Halfpenny. If not, what's wrong with multiple accounts as long as the player did not claim bonuses multiple times.

 

[OliverCurran]

Updated Information

The crux of the matter lies in whether the player that was banned on 4th December took up the same promotion as Mr. Halfpenny. If not, what's wrong with multiple accounts as long as the player did not claim bonuses multiple times.

Hi Chuchu59,

The same 200% sign-on bonus was redeemed in both accounts.

I am sure you'll agree that we are perfectly within our rights to insist that players who join our casinos abide by our terms and conditions, which are provided in full on our web site.

Best regards
Oliver Curran

 

[suzecat]

Hi Chuchu59,

The same 200% sign-on bonus was redeemed in both accounts.

I am sure you'll agree that we are perfectly within our rights to insist that players who join our casinos abide by our terms and conditions, which are provided in full on our web site.

Best regards
Oliver Curran

Since I was stuck in it the past week, I will not be stupid and agree with any statements made by the casino.

Kevhalf: Is what Oliver Curran posted your recollection? I was guilty once of having more than one account at a casino only because I had just plain forgotten that I had opened an account several years prior.

I believe it is prudent to jump on live chat and check with support before opening an account just to be certain you are eligible. It is a total drag to win and not be able to collect.

 

[KasinoKing]

Hi Chuchu59,

The same 200% sign-on bonus was redeemed in both accounts.

I am sure you'll agree that we are perfectly within our rights to insist that players who join our casinos abide by our terms and conditions, which are provided in full on our web site.

The whole point here is that the casino has all the control. The casino allowed the player to open a second account and allowed him to claim the same bonus twice, and only confiscated his funds when he won. I have little doubt nothing would have been said if he lost.

This is what really pisses people off about the Cloud/Curran casinos.

 

[chuchu59]

The whole point here is that the casino has all the control. The casino allowed the player to open a second account and allowed him to claim the same bonus twice, and only confiscated his funds when he won. I have little doubt nothing would have been said if he lost.

This is what really pisses people off about the Cloud/Curran casinos.

I am not sure that I will agree to that K.K. If the software cannot detect that the accounts were from the same ip address it is likely that the coupons will be redeemed successfully. If,as this Mr Curran has said and the 2 players each claimed the same 200% signup promo, I think that the players did not conform with the terms and conditions. Unless Kevin can prove a disassociation from the other player in question, I would say that the xasino is not wrong in denying the winnings.

 

[caruso]

There are multiple accounts in both American Grand and Royal Circus that are registered to the same IP address. Not only this, but one of the accounts is even registered to a gentleman with the same last name as you.

This suggests the player opened a subsequent account willfully. If it were a mistake he would have used the same name. This being the case, his claim is invalid.

Of course, to take the word of Cloud/Curran for what it's worth would result in totally discounting the casino's claim as complete fiction.

You choose. Is he telling the truth about the double sign up? If you believe him, this player is not owed.

The account registered to the gentleman sharing your last name was banned on December 4, 2005. You opened your American Grand account 9 days later on December 13, 2005. You then opened your Royal Circus account a day after this, on December 14, 2005.

Therefore you have been in violation of our terms and conditions by:

B) Playing in our sister casinos after you have been banned in one of our casinos.

Totally irrelevant.

Opening multi accounts = fair enough.

Denying winnings after you lock one of any number of legitimate accounts, retroactively putting the player in violation of this condition, is obviously a crock of >>>SELF-SNIP<<<.

If anybody want's further details on what I call the Cloud/Curran "deposit trick", just do a Google search of "Warren Cloud" and hit (hopefully) the top result.

I would also invite Cloud/Curran to answer the two simple questions I posed in said article.

 

[KasinoKing]

I am not sure that I will agree to that K.K. If the software cannot detect that the accounts were from the same ip address it is likely that the coupons will be redeemed successfully.

Exactly!
I don't play RTG's much (for obvious reasons!) but I'm pretty sure that at most, if not all, when you go to the Banking screen you will see this message: "For security reasons we have recorded your machines ID and IP address"
This info is obviously being recorded automatically by the software. Now I'm not a computer programmer, but I would imagine that even if the casino had 1-million customers the software could run a check of the data-base for duplicate numbers in a matter of seconds!
If the casino does not run this sort of program - I think we can imagine why not...

 

[jetset]

Mr Halfpenny needs to get in here again and comment, I think. Good post, Chuchu59.

 

[kevhalf]

Mr. Curran/Cloud or whatever your name is... that person you mention with the same last name as mine is my cousin back east. He's the one who told me about your casino. What is the problem with this?

Kevin

 

[suzecat]

Mr. Curran/Cloud or whatever your name is... that person you mention with the same last name as mine is my cousin back east. He's the one who told me about your casino. What is the problem with this?/QUOTE]

There are multiple accounts in both American Grand and Royal Circus that are registered to the same IP address. Not only this, but one of the accounts is even registered to a gentleman with the same last name as you.

The same IP address kevhalf? How can this be if your "cousin back east" is not using the same computer as you?

 

[kevhalf]

My cousin and I (who *does* have the same last name as me) went splits on a dial-up connection and we both use it... me from Ontario and him back east. Saves us a few bucks each. The IP's would likely be pretty similar (same backbone/IP class) but I wouldn't think they'd be identical - we're both dialing into different nodes.

Kevin

 

[suzecat]

My cousin and I (who *does* have the same last name as me) went splits on a dial-up connection and we both use it... me from Ontario and him back east. Saves us a few bucks each. The IP's would likely be pretty similar (same backbone/IP class) but I wouldn't think they'd be identical - we're both dialing into different nodes.

Kevin

Identical from a dialup? Doubtful. Dialups use dynamic IPs and DSLs use static IPs. Connecting by dialup from two different computers using same ISP and BOTH HAVING SAME IP ADDRESS? Well, the word impossible comes to mind.

 

[caruso]

This needs proof - everything Cloud/Curran says is hearsay.

I know nothing about ISPs being "dynamic" or otherwise, but apparently others do.

Cloud/Curran: please take a screenshot of whatever proof you have that these accounts have the same ISP or whatever. If same ISP = fraudulent behaviour, then fair enough. I'm not convinced, since the poster has given what seems to me to be a possible explanation, but whatever. Email your proof to Casinomeister, who can confirm or deny this story.

Until then, all this is hearsay.

 

[suzecat]

Well this is an historic day (Caruso and I agree about something). Should Warren Cloud and/or Oliver Curran offer such "proof" to CM it would go a long way toward paving a new road to redemption.

 

[kavaman]

interesting

The most interesting thing is that oliver curran is actually answering to this thread. There have been many complaints but he has not had the courtesy to address them here. Hope this changes.

-kavaman

 

[gfkostas]

I have little doubt nothing would have been said if he lost.

Exactly. They only happy to lock you out when you have won. The casino let the player to open more than 1 account therefore its like letting you in a landbased casino and after you win kicking you out and confiscating your winnings. Whether the software can or cannor detect multiple accounts thats not the players problem. It's not rocket science to have a casino software that detects duplicated accounts from the same IP. If they(casino software) lets you play then its like the casino saying to you that the rules aren't applied on you and feel free to spend your money but if you win we will confiscate them by using the rules as an excuse. Ridiculous....

 

[suzecat]

Exactly. They only happy to lock you out when you have won. The casino let the player to open more than 1 account therefore its like letting you in a landbased casino and after you win kicking you out and confiscating your winnings. Whether the software can or cannor detect multiple accounts thats not the players problem. It's not rocket science to have a casino software that detects duplicated accounts from the same IP. If they(casino software) lets you play then its like the casino saying to you that the rules aren't applied on you and feel free to spend your money but if you win we will confiscate them by using the rules as an excuse. Ridiculous....

Come on! If the rules say one account per person/computer/ip/etc. and some smartazz does otherwise, do you really think the casino should pay up?

 

[gfkostas]

Come on! If the rules say one account per person/computer/ip/etc. and some smartazz does otherwise, do you really think the casino should pay up?

The question should be: Would they refund your losses? this rule applies ONLY if you win thats why i find it unfair! secondly they shouldnt let you open a second account with the same name/address/ip. It's easy to set up such a mechanism, c'mon now....

 

[suzecat]

The question should be: Would they refund your losses? this rule applies ONLY if you win thats why i find it unfair! secondly they shouldnt let you open a second account with the same name/address/ip. It's easy to set up such a mechanism, c'mon now....

I agree it is easy to deceive an RTG and I don't think that is a reason to try it. We hold the casinos to a high standard of honesty and should therefore be willing to practice an equal standard of honesty. If a casino paid a dishonest player -- in spite of how very clever he/she is, then they would be rewarding dishonesty. IMHO the keeping of deposits is a punitive measure taken to discourage player fraud. I have yet to lose a deposit or any winnings derived therefrom due to fraud or deception. I don't think you have either -- we just don't operate that way.